Another dumb, hypothetical legal-ese question

LoLPilot

LoLPilot

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LoLPilot
I found out the other day that there is a company making Luscombes again. It's called Luscombe-Silvaire, and they are manufacturing new Luscombe 8's as S-LSA's. I believe that they are patterned after the 8F, judging from what I can find on their website.

I know that Pt 23 airplanes that meet the criteria for S-LSA's cannot be recertified as S-LSA's, but I have also read that the manufacturer is capable of doing that. I am assuming that Luscombe-Silvaire now owns the 8 type certificate, so could they theoretically use an STC or similar measure to recertify an existing 8 as an S-LSA?
 
What kind of airworthiness certificate do these airplanes have? Standard or special?

S-LSAs are not type certified. The manufacturer could be building them under those rules without holding the type certificate. Many of the Cub clones are built this way.
 
Good luck contacting them.
I've tried a number of times to ask about their "product", and have never received an answer.
 
Shepherd said:
Good luck contacting them.
I've tried a number of times to ask about their "product", and have never received an answer.
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This is disheartening. I emailed them a few days ago asking some questions about the new production ones and haven’t heard back. It’s a shame because the picture of the one with the Rotec is just beautiful.
 
LoLPilot said:
I am assuming that Luscombe-Silvaire now owns the 8 type certificate,
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The TC is currently held by Good Earthkeeping Organization an environmental company in CA. Luscombe went through various legal proceedings
over the years and ownership changes but I don't know if the current holder is your LSA builder or simply an old invester who obtained the TC as a settlement.

But as mentioned above, LSAs are not certified nor are they applicable to most FAR requirements like TCs or STCs. While you can operate certain TC'd aircraft under LSA rules, I don't recall any method to convert a TC'd aircraft to a consensus standard based aircraft just as one can't convert a TC'd aircraft to a E/AB aircraft.
 
21.190 Issue of a special airworthiness certificate for a light-sport category aircraft.
...
(2) The aircraft must not have been previously issued a standard, primary, restricted, limited, or provisional airworthiness certificate, or an equivalent airworthiness certificate issued by a foreign civil aviation authority.
 
N399LS is deregistered. Bummer.

Are there any all metal SLSA taildraggers? Sonex is the only ELSA I can think of.
 
Bell206 said:
I don't recall any method to convert a TC'd aircraft to a consensus standard based aircraft just as one can't convert a TC'd aircraft to a E/AB aircraft.
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You can't convert *a* Type-Certificated aircraft to SLSA, but I don't think anything prevents converting a *design*. You could build brand-new SLSA Luscombes by going through the Consensus Approval process. This, of course, wouldn't apply to existing Luscombes.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
You can't convert *a* Type-Certificated aircraft to SLSA, but I don't think anything prevents converting a *design*. You could build brand-new SLSA Luscombes by going through the Consensus Approval process. This, of course, wouldn't apply to existing Luscombes.

Ron Wanttaja
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That’s what Luscombe-Silvaire is apparently doing, though I can’t get in touch with them or find any in the wild.
 
mondtster said:
What kind of airworthiness certificate do these airplanes have? Standard or special?

S-LSAs are not type certified. The manufacturer could be building them under those rules without holding the type certificate. Many of the Cub clones are built this way.
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Could you decertify it and fly it as an Experimental LSA
 
Joseph Beard said:
Could you decertify it and fly it as an Experimental LSA
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If an aircraft has an S-LSA certificate, it can be converted to E-LSA.
If an aircraft has a standard (part 23 or old CAR) type certificate, there is no conversion.
If an aircraft has an E-AB certificate, also no conversion, but also no real point unless you want to do your own condition inspections and are not the original builder, but since you can't go there...
 
Let's say you found a 8E with a high time engine and decided to put a Rotax/Honda/Yamaha engine on it. Couldn't you then fly it as an experimental?

It really makes no sense to ban the 8E because the manufacturer stated the gross weight was 1400 lbs., 80 lbs. too much. The FAA should have or might already have an appeals/STC process for this.
I don't want to waste a lot of anybody's time since it will be about a year before my hangar home will be ready to house something.
 
Joseph Beard said:
Let's say you found a 8E with a high time engine and decided to put a Rotax/Honda/Yamaha engine on it. Couldn't you then fly it as an experimental?
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Not if it started as a TC'd aircraft.
 
Joseph Beard said:
Couldn't you then fly it as an experimental?
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As stated above, no. While there are several reasons to issue a Special Airworthiness Certificate under the Experimental category, none allow a TC'd aircraft to operate as a E/AB aircraft. https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/experiment/
Joseph Beard said:
The FAA should have or might already have an appeals/STC process for this.
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Are you asking if there is a STC process to lower the 8E to the LSA gross wt limit? If so it would be a moot point due to the way the LSA rules are written which do not allow any TC'd aircraft that was operated above the LSA limit even if that aircraft was originally certified at a lower weight limit. For example, if a plane originally had a gross weight of 1200 lbs and the owner installed a factory option or STC that raised the limit to 1500 lbs, one could not remove that option or STC and call it an LSA. At least that is what I recall from a number of years ago. It may of changed but I haven't read about it.
 
Joseph Beard said:
Let's say you found a 8E with a high time engine and decided to put a Rotax/Honda/Yamaha engine on it. Couldn't you then fly it as an experimental?
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Experimental Research and Development. Yup. But that will be expensive, you will be limited with how you can use it, and you really don't want to go there.

E-LSA? Not no way, not no how.
E-AB? double nope.

Joseph Beard said:
It really makes no sense
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It's all about how the rules are written, not what makes sense.
 
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