another complicated case

[lbfjrmd]

I'm a xx year old helicopter pilot. April of 20xx I was arrested for suspicion of DUI. I blew a .088 but complicated things by refusing the blood alcohol test. My AME is not an advocate for me so far. He sent me to a third party drug and alcohol shrink. If it is my only option to get my medical, then so be it, but there must be another option.

The FAA seems to base their more stringent requirements on refusals to submit, based on the fact that one could be absolutely hammered. The difference here is that my BAC was known, and I was barely over the legal limit.

I'm just trying to get my medical through the path of least resistance.

Any assistance or advice you can give me would be appreciated.


***************************************************************************************************

an arrest is an arrest.
civilian advice: do not blow. FAA advice: blow
I will need to see all FAA corres.

 

[bflynn]

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. Another example of how listening to a lawyer about medical matters can mess you up.

the pilot in command is responsible for everyone on board. Evading truth is not compatible with that job.

 

[Morgan3820]

Oh well. Moving on.

 

[Daleandee]

Senior AME/ATC AME ...

 

[PastZTL]

Why would you need a blood test if you had already blown a .088 on the Intoxilyzer? I'm not familiar with many state's laws, but normally it's one or the other.

 

[Justin Brady]

Why would you need a blood test if you had already blown a .088 on the Intoxilyzer? I'm not familiar with many state's laws, but normally it's one or the other.

That's my question as well.
Here you can blow, or refuse and get a blood test. (with automatic suspension etc)

 

[flyingron]

The .088 might have been a PBT. In most states, while that can be used for probable cause for the arrest, you need an approved chemical test (intoxillizer or blood) to get the per se conviction.

 

[lbfjrmd]

more ....

So airman self reports, and gets this letter back:





July x, 20xx


FAA
Legal Division
PO Box 25810
OKC OK 73125-081 0


CERTIFIED MAIL-RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED



Dear Mr. X:

The Federal Aviation Administration has received your notification letter regarding your May 19, 2021, suspension for an alcohol related incident, in the state of New Hampshire.

Specific information regarding your requirement to notify the FAA of offenses involving alcohol or drugs can be found in 14 C.F.R. § 61.15(e). All alcohol or drug related administrative actions, i.e., driver license suspensions or revocations and convictions for driving under the influence are separate, reportable actions. Therefore, you must submit separate letters to the FAA reporting the administrative action and the conviction in order to comply with Section 61.l5(e). You will find helpful information, along with a link to the C.F.R.s on our website www.faa.gov/go/duidwi.

When completing your next application for an airman medical certificate, FAA Form 8500-8, please read Question 18v carefully and follow the instructions when answering the question. Question 18v seeks information regarding arrests, convictions, and/or administrative actions (such as, driver license suspensions, cancellations, revocations, denials) or loss of driving privileges, and any required attendance at a substance abuse program or an alcohol education or rehabilitation class. Should you have questions concerning your medical certificate or receive additional correspondence from the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute, please contact them at (405) 954-4821, ext 1.

Please be advised that nothing contained in this letter shall be construed as relieving you from complying with the operating limitations set out in 14 C.F.R. § 61.53 or otherwise complying with 14 C.F.R. Part 67.

Should you have any questions in regards to your reporting requirements, please feel free to contact me at (405) 954-7576 or visit our website www.faa.gov/go/duidwi.

Sincerely,

X

**********************************

Airman is not satisfied by previous AME's approach. Play jr. AME and tell me how to proceed

 

[lbfjrmd]

Why would you need a blood test if you had already blown a .088 on the Intoxilyzer? I'm not familiar with many state's laws, but normally it's one or the other.

I agree. It is moot to the FAA. But if they do not have a BAL, they assume > 2.0

 

[Half Fast]

Play jr. AME and tell me how to proceed

Okay, I’ll play.

Letter to the airman:

Dear Mr. X,

We certainly don’t need drunks like you in the air, and I won’t be a party to putting you there. Stay on the ground. Preferably as a pedestrian.

Sincerely,

Half Fast
Jr AME

How’d I do?

 

[lbfjrmd]

Okay, I’ll play.

Letter to the airman:

Dear Mr. X,

We certainly don’t need drunks like you in the air, and I won’t be a party to putting you there. Stay on the ground. Preferably as a pedestrian.

Sincerely,

Half Fast
Jr AME

How’d I do?

not bad, but I have to make a living! awaiting more comments then we will proceed.

 

[robin ardoin]

Get evaluated by a HIMS psychiatrist.

 

[lbfjrmd]

good, but that will only happen if the FAA orders it. So we need to help the airman submit an application via med express. Then we will consult the airman, open the application if he agrees and complete the application.

 

[Half Fast]

I think I’d want to know his history. Was this his first substance abuse bust? Was he already on an SI for something like depression? There are lots of ways this could get complicated, so I think I would want the whole story up front.

 

[Sifossifoco]

"Dear Mr. X,

As an AME I am bound by the rules that the FAA sets, and that are exposed in the certified mail that you have recently received. My role is to prepare the best medical evidence for you to be successful with your application, but an AME cannot question the rules or assume the role of an advocate. It may be helpful, if you intend to argue your case with the FAA from the regulatory point of view, to acquire the services of an expert aviation lawyer.
I will continue to assist you for your medical needs and I will be happy to work together with your lawyer in order to give you the best chances of success.

Sincerely,

Very Jr AME"

 

[lbfjrmd]

I think I’d want to know his history. Was this his first substance abuse bust? Was he already on an SI for something like depression? There are lots of ways this could get complicated, so I think I would want the whole story up front.

agree! you are learning as I learn from the airman. Next is a phone consultation. Airman says he will come to me for the exam ... he lives 6 or so states from me!

 

[lbfjrmd]

"Dear Mr. X,

As an AME I am bound by the rules that the FAA sets, and that are exposed in the certified mail that you have recently received. My role is to prepare the best medical evidence for you to be successful with your application, but an AME cannot question the rules or assume the role of an advocate. It may be helpful, if you intend to argue your case with the FAA from the regulatory point of view, to acquire the services of an expert aviation lawyer.
I will continue to assist you for your medical needs and I will be happy to work together with your lawyer in order to give you the best chances of success.

Sincerely,

Very Jr AME"

I have only had one airman who also had a lawyer. I do not think this case will need one. Just hoops to go through.

 

[PastZTL]

I agree. It is moot to the FAA. But if they do not have a BAL, they assume > 2.0

Did you have your breath alcohol level measured by an intoxilyzer or a portable (field) breath tester?

 

[lbfjrmd]

spoke to airman - reviewed his 8500. Plan to apply soon and await FAA instructions. Likely to be a HIMS case. I edit the medexpress for the airman. clean and fast.