Another airplane value thread

Will Kumley

Will Kumley

Line Up and Wait
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Will
Not your normal thread- I hope. Is there a place that a person can find actual sale prices of airplanes recently? I see ads on the common sites and the prices seem to be getting slightly better than they were a year ago. But Vref still has them appraised significantly lower if it's the common high wing or low wing brands.
 
Vref is the only publically available too. NAAA used to have a separate valuation tool (that was generally more accurate than Vref was at the time), but that is gone. Ultimately, each of these 40+ year old (mostly) birds are unique in some way, good or bad, and the circumstances causing a sale/purchase are unique.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Vref is the only publically available too. NAAA used to have a separate valuation tool (that was generally more accurate than Vref was at the time), but that is gone. Ultimately, each of these 40+ year old (mostly) birds are unique in some way, good or bad, and the circumstances causing a sale/purchase are unique.
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Jeff's got it. There are too many intrinsic variables for pricing ancient aircraft. Maintenance, deferred maintenance, quality of avionics, provenance, are near impossible to quantify.

I have a Robertson STOL kit and a Rajay Turbo-normalized set-up. That 182 is about the only one in the fleet. Each STC adds value, but combined it's a rare and tremendous mountain bird with impeccable maintenance. The value is great than the parts.
 
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And Vref does some strange things. It devalues avionics 10% per year since install. But is a 3 year old GTN-650Xi really worth 30% less than one installed this year?

And there are many mods/STCs that are not listed in their model.

And the sum of the individual things may not be worth the same total as adding up individual items.

Also, if the stars align, you may be willing to pay more for a given airplane that I would, or vice versa.
 
Follow up question. If you were selling a plane and a potential buyer used it as a reference when providing an offer how would you respond? As an example, I can find a handful of Ercoupe 415's listed near the Vref price, but if I look at a Piper or a Cessna the Vref price is substantially lower than the prices people are advertising them for. Many of these higher priced planes appear to sit on the market longer- some for so long they lose more value, but the sellers I've talked to seem to want to hold to their price as there are other overpriced planes on the market.
 
Initial purchase price is frequently overweighted in the grand scheme of airplane things.

Unless, of course, are you looking to flip it. 30 years from now your annual will cost more than the initial purchase price!

Why buy a plane? It’s doubtful that you intend to save money (it’s a straight line, I save gas!) so you may as well embrace the cost now.
 
Prices definitely seem to be dropping.

Just saw a 1980 Archer with 110 SMOH. Redone interior but just a 430 and six pack.

$110K asking. That plane would have been listed at $130K a year ago.
 
I was just thinking the same thing about prices coming down. Give it another 3 months, and it will be confirmed.
 
Just pay what you are comfortable and willing. Every airplane is either over priced or a bargain depending on who you ask. I looked at a Luscombe today that was 30k and I wouldn’t give 15 for it. Seems so much on the market right now is crap that people couldn’t sell 3-4 years ago for half what they are asking now but think it’s suddenly worth double.
 
Grum.Man said:
Just pay what you are comfortable and willing. Every airplane is either over priced or a bargain depending on who you ask. I looked at a Luscombe today that was 30k and I wouldn’t give 15 for it. Seems so much on the market right now is crap that people couldn’t sell 3-4 years ago for half what they are asking now but think it’s suddenly worth double.
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The most recent airplane I looked at was a Zenith 601XL. Overall it looked nice. However, the owner was unwilling to let me look under the cowl after I drove 7 hours to see the plane, battery was almost dead and it wouldn't start in the cold. The engine had cooling issues and he was adamant that required items were not needed (ELT was the main thing). The avionics were actually great but there were quite a few smaller concerns, the engine was the biggest concern. I actually still put an offer in considering the risk I was taking and he got offended.

I may be looking at a Tomahawk soon, or a Ercoupe. Although I think the Ercoupe may be too limiting on useful load.
 
Will Kumley said:
The most recent airplane I looked at was a Zenith 601XL. Overall it looked nice. However, the owner was unwilling to let me look under the cowl after I drove 7 hours to see the plane, battery was almost dead and it wouldn't start in the cold. The engine had cooling issues and he was adamant that required items were not needed (ELT was the main thing). The avionics were actually great but there were quite a few smaller concerns, the engine was the biggest concern. I actually still put an offer in considering the risk I was taking and he got offended.

I may be looking at a Tomahawk soon, or a Ercoupe. Although I think the Ercoupe may be too limiting on useful load.
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Will - check your PM..
 
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You can ask anything you think it’s worth. The right price is what a buyer is comfortable paying. I believe a fair price is what I paid for the aircraft. You will always have non owners or buyers trying to influence your decision.
 
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