Announcing on CTAF 15 miles out - why is this a thing?

I’m still trying to figure out where the whole using plane color on CTAF became a thing. Flew for years no one used color, the. One day late 2000s people started using color. Which is fine if you have a yellow cub, or a an all read plane. But seriously when 6 white Cessna are in the pattern, why?
 
4RNB said:
I think some of the far out announcing is from faster commercial pilots basically saying get out of my way, not taking responsibility otherwise.

"Any other traffic please advise".

Self‐Announce Position and/or Intentions
  1. General. Self‐announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self‐announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
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TommyG said:
I’m still trying to figure out where the whole using plane color on CTAF became a thing. Flew for years no one used color, the. One day late 2000s peoI do ple started using color. Which is fine if you have a yellow cub, or a an all read plane. But seriously when 6 white Cessna are in the pattern, why?
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I have wondered the same thing, telling us the color is just one more word to clog the radio!

Right or wrong I will omit my tail number announcing down wind or base sometimes only while doing pattern work. Numerous T&Gs in a row. I use it at the beginning and end but skip it in the middle and the radio work is easier/shorter and just as effective.
 
TommyG said:
I’m still trying to figure out where the whole using plane color on CTAF became a thing. Flew for years no one used color, the. One day late 2000s people started using color. Which is fine if you have a yellow cub, or a an all read plane. But seriously when 6 white Cessna are in the pattern, why?
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I don't give colors but sometimes I add "experimental" to my calls. Habit I guess as ATC needs to know that when I talk to them. Shouldn't matter at all to another pilot ...
 
TommyG said:
I’m still trying to figure out where the whole using plane color on CTAF became a thing. Flew for years no one used color, the. One day late 2000s people started using color. Which is fine if you have a yellow cub, or a an all read plane. But seriously when 6 white Cessna are in the pattern, why?
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I've never heard of that. Not sure that matters - if someone says "I'm 5 miles to the East at XXXX feet" the color of the plane won't change things. I'll not run into a red plane, but I have something against yellow planes?

Daleandee said:
I don't give colors but sometimes I add "experimental" to my calls. Habit I guess as ATC needs to know that when I talk to them. Shouldn't matter at all to another pilot ...
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You should simply say "VANS" - which tell everyone 1) yep, stud muffin pilot here, and 2) more than likely you're flying with a group of 2 others and you'll do a break over the runway. :ihih:
 
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Sluggo63 said:
I've always based my calls based on minutes, not miles. I'll give my distance in miles, but make the call 5 minutes out.
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Yup….exactly. That’s what I did….but I was just within gear speed.
 

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Gary Ward said:
Seriously time makes more sense to announce.
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I think there's a place for each of them. Time is useful if you're 10 miles out because looking for you is often a waste of time and can be distracting because of that. Distance is useful when you are close to the pattern because it gives the observer more information about where to look.
 
I’m a “10 miles out” guy. You should know general plane types and whether they’re faster or slower than you. We should also be striving for consistency. But as long as the call you’re making is accurate, I don’t really care what u say. Interesting that there’s no mention of “minutes out” here:

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I never saw the point of announcing before taxiing. People in the air don't care, and anybody nearby on the ground can see me moving.

Ditto for leaving the runway; anybody on final can see that I've left the runway after landing and nobody else needs to know. Unless there's somebody waiting to take off as I touch down.
 
Dana said:
and anybody nearby on the ground can see me moving.
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Maybe if your Airport is flat and unobstructed, but that's not the case here. If someone is at the fuel farm and taxiing back toward the FBO, I like to know so I don't cause a jam on the taxiway, especially if I'm coming out of the south hangars and someone just landed and will be turning down the same taxiway.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Why do some pilots feel compelled to make constant position calls on busy CTAF frequencies several miles out?
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Sounds like they're making good use of the frequency to me. I like when people make position calls so I can keep good mental awareness of everyone's location. Now, the one's who make position calls and report an incorrect location/direction are the ones you really should be concerned about!
 
I call at 15 miles out. That means I'll be entering downwind in about 4 minutes.
The average T&G takes about 6 minutes from takeoff to landing. So, If you're already on downwind, I'll be behind you, and you should have plenty of time to land, and take off again. I will be flying wider legs than you. (unless you're training for 747 in a 172)
 
Dana said:
I never saw the point of announcing before taxiing. People in the air don't care, and anybody nearby on the ground can see me moving.
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Not always, and instead of announcing "clear of the active" you simply announce "clear of 19" to indicate which way you just landed. The guy that's 10 miles out can use that information to plan an entry to the pattern. That's especially true since there's no such thing as an "active" at a non towered field.
 
RyanB said:
Sounds like they're making good use of the frequency to me. I like when people make position calls so I can keep good mental awareness of everyone's location. Now, the one's who make position calls and report an incorrect location/direction are the ones you really should be concerned about!
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I want you to reread what I’ve posted on this thread and then tell me that you think people blindly making position reports 15 miles out without any consideration or situational awareness of the communications going on in/near the pattern is a GOOD use of the frequency.

Maybe I didn’t make it clear, but the real issue here is people who are conditioned to make calls without listening or having any SA on what others are doing.

Here’s a scenario that actually happened yesterday (and prompted my original post):

I’m holding short at AVX, waiting to depart. There is an aircraft on the 45, an aircraft on downwind and one on base nearing turn to final.

I’m trying to listen and locate visually the guy who is next to land to see if I have room to depart. But when he tries to make his call, there is a massive sidetone (two calling at once) which then becomes a dude making a long winded call from 15 miles out. Someone calls ‘blocked’ and Mr 15 miler launches again with his long winded report. Guy on final still can’t get a word in.

That’s my beef here. Pilots with zero SA who think that they are helping when they aren’t.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I’m trying to listen and locate visually the guy who is next to land to see if I have room to depart. But when he tries to make his call, there is a massive sidetone (two calling at once) which then becomes a dude making a long winded call from 15 miles out. Someone calls ‘blocked’ and Mr 15 miler launches again with his long winded report. Guy on final still can’t get a word in.
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EVERYONE is suddenly NORDO, just like in the 1920s, when the regulations and procedures were written . . .

:) . . . :cool:





.
 
Can’t fault the 15 mile guy for making a call. Could see fault if was excessively long I suppose - which has nothing to do with distance.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I want you to reread what I’ve posted on this thread and then tell me that you think people blindly making position reports 15 miles out without any consideration or situational awareness of the communications going on in/near the pattern is a GOOD use of the frequency.

Maybe I didn’t make it clear, but the real issue here is people who are conditioned to make calls without listening or having any SA on what others are doing.

Here’s a scenario that actually happened yesterday (and prompted my original post):

I’m holding short at AVX, waiting to depart. There is an aircraft on the 45, an aircraft on downwind and one on base nearing turn to final.

I’m trying to listen and locate visually the guy who is next to land to see if I have room to depart. But when he tries to make his call, there is a massive sidetone (two calling at once) which then becomes a dude making a long winded call from 15 miles out. Someone calls ‘blocked’ and Mr 15 miler launches again with his long winded report. Guy on final still can’t get a word in.

That’s my beef here. Pilots with zero SA who think that they are helping when they aren’t.
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I get that, and that's just poor airmanship. Probably has a wet ticket in his pocket.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I want you to reread what I’ve posted on this thread and then tell me that you think people blindly making position reports 15 miles out without any consideration or situational awareness of the communications going on in/near the pattern is a GOOD use of the frequency.

Maybe I didn’t make it clear, but the real issue here is people who are conditioned to make calls without listening or having any SA on what others are doing.

Here’s a scenario that actually happened yesterday (and prompted my original post):

I’m holding short at AVX, waiting to depart. There is an aircraft on the 45, an aircraft on downwind and one on base nearing turn to final.

I’m trying to listen and locate visually the guy who is next to land to see if I have room to depart. But when he tries to make his call, there is a massive sidetone (two calling at once) which then becomes a dude making a long winded call from 15 miles out. Someone calls ‘blocked’ and Mr 15 miler launches again with his long winded report. Guy on final still can’t get a word in.

That’s my beef here. Pilots with zero SA who think that they are helping when they aren’t.
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Your ire is misdirected. It's not that he called 15 miles out, it's that he can't say "[plane] 1-5 out, landing [runway] Catalina," and instead has to give a soliloquy. Would have happened if he was 10 or 5 out as well.
 
I normally do it at 10, but if I'm on my way home and I switch to the CTAF and I hear someone doing practice approaches between me and the field I'll make a call farther out so they know I'm coming and have time to adjust/watch for me.
 
4RNB said:
should not
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SHALL NOT has some weight to it… should not? Not so much.

I’m like most others.. 10 miles out is about 5 minutes.. a little less depending on my descent rate/speed.

Mostly because the 10 mile traffic ring on my EFB is a good reference point.
 
tsts4 said:
I normally announce 10 miles out which is inline with FAA guidance. My intent is twofold: 1. to make my intentions known to those in the pattern, and 2. If I don’t hear anything after switching to CTAF as a way to solicit a response akin to asking ATITAPA without actually saying ATITAPA.
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Exactly, it is the new approved way to say ATITAPA. It is much more useful as it actually tells the pattern traffic what you intend to do, your location, and about how much time we have before we need to worry about you, and you don’t have all six airplanes in the pattens stepping over each other if they really did respond to the ATITAPA request.


Brian
 
Anybody who's been to Oshkosh or any other big flyin knows when to keep their mouth shut but having more information rather than less isn't necessarily a bad thing. Pilots need to understand the meaning of "terse" in regards to radio use. Know before you key the mic what you are going to say and get it over with as soon as possible.
 
15, 10 or?, I don’t really care, it can kinda depends. I think the more biggie is to listen up by 15 miles or so to get a ‘feel’ for traffic in the area.

With light winds, could be anything, yes I try to fit in with existing traffic.
 
Comm brevity and making position calls are two different topics IMO.

I’ve flown with an example of the long winded pilot. I joked at one point they forgot to include what they had for breakfast in the position report. Response - that’s what my CFI taught me. Facepalm.
 
We have guidelines from the FAA, but you're the PIC and have to make the calls that you feel make you safe. FAA recommends 10 miles out, then the next call should be downwind. I usually add in a 5 mile call even in my 182. I feel that it gives anyone on crosswind or downwind another chance to let me know where they are.

I use my airplane model and call sign as recommended, Skylane N2743G, but again, I feel there are exceptions. When I flew the Meyer Little Toot, I would call out Red & White Biplane instead of Meyer or Experimental. As long as we're all talking, and not talking over each other, we'll probably be okay!

Now on that note, as I head to OSH this week, going into Watertown, WI has always been fun listening to the chaos!
 
WDD said:
Can’t fault the 15 mile guy for making a call. Could see fault if was excessively long I suppose - which has nothing to do with distance.
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Like the guy who reports 15 miles out, for XX runway, will overfly the field at YY altitude, then descent, and run to enter the 45 to downwing for the XX runway (which he already said).

I call about 7 - 10 miles, AFTER listening, and just say direction from the airport and inbound. Thern once I am in part of the pattern I make position calls.

Color can be good to sort out who is who. As was said, there could be 6 white Cessnas, so it doesn't aways work.
 
My CFI taught me to never use tail number, he said if they should never be close enough to read your tail number. I don’t use colors either, just type and position. The type isn’t so they will be able to visually identify me, but realize I’m going to be faster than a typical trainer.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
My CFI taught me to never use tail number, he said if they should never be close enough to read your tail number. I don’t use colors either, just type and position. The type isn’t so they will be able to visually identify me, but realize I’m going to be faster than a typical trainer.
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So two similar sounding pilots in the same type on the radio only calling out the type wouldn't cause any confusion at all. At least with the tail number you can put a mental picture together.

"Cirrus Downwind 24"
followed immediately by
"Cirrus Base 24"

Sounds like I shoudn't expect a Cirrus on downwind - not to say I shouldn't be looking, but the following...

"Cirrus 345 downwind 24"
followed by
"Cirrus 789 base 24."

Ah, two different Cirri , Cirruses, Circus (?) in the pattern.

When I am the only Comanche in the vicinity, after the first call of the tail number I will only say Comanche. But if there are more than 1, I'm calling at least the last 3.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
My CFI taught me to never use tail number, he said if they should never be close enough to read your tail number. I don’t use colors either, just type and position. The type isn’t so they will be able to visually identify me, but realize I’m going to be faster than a typical trainer.
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Of course you can't read it. You also likely can't see every plane in the pattern either. The number allows you to visualize where they are if you can't see them. Cessna 123 vs Cessna 789. You likely can't see color at the other end of the pattern either, which is why I find "white Cessna" pretty useless.

What you can do is know, there's a guy on final, someone just turned base and someone else is on the upwind. If I'm joining the downwind on the 45, I need to find the upwind guy plus any NORDO's or one of the calls was goofed up and I need to see if the downwind is clear where I'm joining in.
 
The 15 mile call is a holdover from the "Airport Advisory Area" for non-tower airports with an active FSS.

I agree, the use of "X minutes out" calls will make a better fit for busy airports, but there are those who rely on their tablets for traffic deconfliction. I'm so glad I have spent most of my flying using paper maps and looking out the windows...
 
I really like the pilots that decide to have a full on conversation with each other in the pattern. I also really like the call outs of "over the river" or "over the golf course" when going to new or less frequently visited airports. Which golf course and what part of the river. I know roughly what 5 miles southwest is, no idea what part of "the river" you are over. As others have said, 15 mile out call can be helpful especially if in a quicker plane than the common trainer or slow citabria, etc etc.
 
Droning along in the Ercoupe, I call 5-miles out unless the USAF Fight Surgeon Traing Program is operating with 5 or so Cirri coming and going most of the day. Then it is for self preservation at 10 miles.
 
EdFred said:
So two similar sounding pilots in the same type on the radio only calling out the type wouldn't cause any confusion at all. At least with the tail number you can put a mental picture together.

"Cirrus Downwind 24"
followed immediately by
"Cirrus Base 24"

Sounds like I shoudn't expect a Cirrus on downwind - not to say I shouldn't be looking, but the following...

"Cirrus 345 downwind 24"
followed by
"Cirrus 789 base 24."

Ah, two different Cirri , Cirruses, Circus (?) in the pattern.

When I am the only Comanche in the vicinity, after the first call of the tail number I will only say Comanche. But if there are more than 1, I'm calling at least the last 3.
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1. I think calls should be on turns where the position likely is more precise….”Cirrus turning left base 24”, but that’s not how it’s taught.
2. Tail number is just info I don’t need, Cirrus on base, or Cirrus on midfield downwind. If I want to direct a call to a specific plane, I just use position, “Cirrus turning base, is this a full stop?” I don’t have to remember if it was 123 or 789, and obviously they should recognize the call is for them.
3. Generally you don’t need a full picture, just who is close. If I’m entering a downwind on a 45°, why would I care who is on base? Exception for a plane not in a standard pattern (turbo prop, helicopter…) or if doing something not expected.
 
TommyG said:
I’m still trying to figure out where the whole using plane color on CTAF became a thing. Flew for years no one used color, the. One day late 2000s people started using color. Which is fine if you have a yellow cub, or a an all read plane. But seriously when 6 white Cessna are in the pattern, why?
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thats when i reply, "thats great, but my screen shows n numbers not colors!'
 
since i fly an RV, i don't announce at all, come straight in and do an overhead break wearing my flight suit and mirrored raybans!
 
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