Announcing on CTAF 15 miles out - why is this a thing?

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

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Fearless Tower
Why do some pilots feel compelled to make constant position calls on busy CTAF frequencies several miles out?

Flew into Catalina today and as was expected on a VFR socal weekend, it was packed. And with 3-4 airplanes within 3 miles of the airport at any given time, it was quite frustrating to hear the multitude of arriving aircraft broadcasting several miles out frequently stepping on those actually in the pattern.

If you do this and you think your helping, you aren’t!
 
Don't know nutin about Catalina but we're required by NOTAM to call >10 miles out. (KJYO)
 
I normally announce 10 miles out which is inline with FAA guidance. My intent is twofold: 1. to make my intentions known to those in the pattern, and 2. If I don’t hear anything after switching to CTAF as a way to solicit a response akin to asking ATITAPA without actually saying ATITAPA.
 
I understand and recognize that it's the current FAA guidance, but my plane is so slow they'll just forget about me before I get there....

Back when I learned to fly, the FAA guidance was that you'd make a radio call on downwind and final at uncontrolled fields. Nowadays, you can upwind, crosswind, downwind, base, final, taxiing, and stopping at the portajohn (OK, NOT the last one).

Also recently discovered that the FAA wants me to keep the transponder and ADS-B out running after landing. Geeze, do people still need the crutches on the ground?

Ron Wanttaja
 
Keep in mind that at bizjet speeds, 10 mi out is possibly 9 from actually IN the pattern and that can be 180 seconds away. Not sure what speed traffic you had… but 15 mi is not a lot of warning.
3-4 aircraft in the area is not really busy.
Certainly blocking others transmissions can be a problem.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Keep in mind that at bizjet speeds, 10 mi out is possibly 9 from actually IN the pattern and that can be 180 seconds away. Not sure what speed traffic you had… but 15 mi is not a lot of warning.
3-4 aircraft in the area is not really busy.
Certainly blocking others transmissions can be a problem.
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Totally understand that, but that wasn’t the issue here. This was an airport that doesn’t even allow jets.

To your point tough, I’ve flown bizjets too, and sometimes (when the freq is stoopid busy) there is more value in listening to what those closer to the airport are doing and fitting your way into their flow than blindly announcing your location.

I guess my rant here is really related to the complete lack of situational awareness of some pilots out there who are hell bent on announcing without ever listening to what others are saying/doing
 
At a busy airport, calling in at 15 miles helps to plan deconfliction with others that are 10 miles out but slower. Not suggesting it personally but I can understand why there might be value in doing so. I get your point though, why not report 20 miles out, or 50 miles out for that matter?
 
I call it at 10 miles, even though I know my hand-held doesn't reach that far, Why?
1. The FAA recommends I do it.
2. The planes 5 miles behind me, and who are closing at 100 mph more than my top speed know where I am.
Fifteen miles might be a little excessive, but if it makes them feel safer, meh.
 
I hear ya on congestion, but it could be vital info for an aircraft departing in that direction which could cause conflict.
 
I did the ten mile out straight in call into a non towered airfield on Friday. It worked this time. Sometimes not. There were two other Cherokees in the pattern. One on short final and another turning down wind. Both training. I could tell they were nervous. The guy turning down wind says he’s extending…I kept my speed up and gave him a few more position reports….short final over the golf course. It all worked and he didn’t extend much.

You knew I could get to short final before he’d be at base.
 
Fifteen out is less than 5 minutes in the planes I fly. I don't call at 15, but absolutely between 8 and 10. I'll do straight ins if it'll work, if not I break it off and do a normal entry. If I sense someone is nervous I'll let them know that I'll maneuver if it's not going to work out. Very rarely do I hear pilots getting stepped on at the same field, chatter from other fields is a different matter. It's not uncommon to hear calls from fields 50+ miles away around here. Then there's that special squeal sound that we all like to hear.
 
I make one call right around 15 miles out, which is about six minutes out. After that, I listen to get a feel for traffic in the pattern and how to fit myself in. Next call is in the pattern, either on final, base or downwind, depending on how I decided to fit myself into the existing flow of traffic. At my field, which rarely is busy (and I'm sure it's also the case elsewhere, hence I do it at every non-towered field), sometimes you have people do patterns for hours with no traffic so their calls become less frequent. If they hear me announcing myself six minutes out, it's almost like a wake up call if someone actually is in the pattern and they'll start talking again once they know someone is joining.
 
jbarrass said:
Don't know nutin about Catalina but we're required by NOTAM to call >10 miles out. (KJYO)
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Same for CFO, call 10 nm out - sitting under DEN Class B and barely 5 nm away from a USAF base. Wait - they changed it, now it's a USSF base but still have aircraft based there. All 3 are towered. Of course DEN ignores us (and hates us, too, wishes we'd go away, but we were here first) unless we creep over the N-S road to the west of the field.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Why do some pilots feel compelled to make constant position calls on busy CTAF frequencies several miles out?

Flew into Catalina today and as was expected on a VFR socal weekend, it was packed. And with 3-4 airplanes within 3 miles of the airport at any given time, it was quite frustrating to hear the multitude of arriving aircraft broadcasting several miles out frequently stepping on those actually in the pattern.

If you do this and you think your helping, you aren’t!
Click to expand...
15 miles is a pretty far out, but asking to limit the calls to only aircraft in the pattern is way too close. I've had a few too many close calls with cowboy pilots at Catalina. I appreciate the call outs. Keep em short and concise, but let everyone know where you are.
 
I call at 10 out. Then about 3 with my plan to enter the pattern. At busy uncontrolled fields it really helps when folks give their position to allow sequencing and spacing.
 
Fearless Tower said:
In the context of my beef, that’s relevant why?

Do you think your speed gives the right of way to cut into the existing traffic in the pattern?
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How does letting someone know that in about 5 minutes there's going to be another plane in the vicinity equate to "I made a call get out of my way?"

I'm going to be in the pattern before a cub-like plane making the call at 10 miles. But somehow the call by the Cub isn't cutting in even though timewise it's a longer notice?

Somehow, I don't think you've thought this position through.
 
I heard a King Air call at 30 out. I like to call at 8-10 out at controlled Delta fields and further at Bravo’s or Charlie’s.

At uncontrolled fields, it depends, I have ADSB in/out and I assume that most others have it too. If I see traffic on foreflight, I’ll make more reports vs not seeing traffic on foreflight.
 
PaulS said:
Fifteen out is less than 5 minutes in the planes I fly. I don't call at 15, but absolutely between 8 and 10. I'll do straight ins if it'll work, if not I break it off and do a normal entry. If I sense someone is nervous I'll let them know that I'll maneuver if it's not going to work out. Very rarely do I hear pilots getting stepped on at the same field, chatter from other fields is a different matter. It's not uncommon to hear calls from fields 50+ miles away around here. Then there's that special squeal sound that we all like to hear
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Sounds like we might be sharing the same airspace. Six airfields within a 30 mile radius all using 122.8...and the CQX area is crazy busy this time of year between their sight-seeing flights, the shark spotters, Cape Air, and then just general fun flying. Sometimes it's near impossible to get a call in. But to the original question, coming in to CQX sometimes it's necessary to make a bunch of position calls for all the reasons I just mentioned. It gives you a chance to pace yourself enough to find a gap in the traffic. Fortunately, all but the fastest traffic in the area seems content with standard pattern entries.

I recently started flying out of Falmouth (5B6) where they changed from 122.8 earlier this year to a clear frequency. No more confusion, no more squeal...it's amazing!
 
I’ve always called at 5 miles out, flying around C172 speeds.
 
I’ll announce at ten and five out adding a known landmark to the five mile call. It gets busy here at the beach through the summer with jumpers, biplane rides, and tourists coming in for the weekend.
 
caverjamie said:
I’ve always called at 5 miles out, flying around C172 speeds.
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Yea, well, you are flying at rocket ship speeds. Not chugging along at 65 knots like me. If I called that far out, everyone in the pattern would already be on the ground by the time I got there. :)
 
Fearless Tower said:
In the context of my beef, that’s relevant why?

Do you think your speed gives the right of way to cut into the existing traffic in the pattern?
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Why would you think he thinks that?

Really, I think the idea of universally tying the same distance for the first call whether you are a Cessna 150 with a 95 KT cruise speed or a CitationJet with a Vref faster than that is a little ridiculous. It's really all about time.

Multiple calls on a busy frequency? I agree with you.
 
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KE5BM said:
Sounds like we might be sharing the same airspace. Six airfields within a 30 mile radius all using 122.8...and the CQX area is crazy busy this time of year between their sight-seeing flights, the shark spotters, Cape Air, and then just general fun flying. Sometimes it's near impossible to get a call in. But to the original question, coming in to CQX sometimes it's necessary to make a bunch of position calls for all the reasons I just mentioned. It gives you a chance to pace yourself enough to find a gap in the traffic. Fortunately, all but the fastest traffic in the area seems content with standard pattern entries.

I recently started flying out of Falmouth (5B6) where they changed from 122.8 earlier this year to a clear frequency. No more confusion, no more squeal...it's amazing!
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I'm out of Laconia now, but fly to the cape fairly often. I hear mainly Maine airports, NH airports and a lot from Plum Island. Not a big deal, except for that squeal, I hate that. I like Chatham, but every time I try to go to the restaurant it's full with a long wait. One day...
 
GMascelli said:
I’ll announce at ten and five out adding a known landmark to the five mile call. It gets busy here at the beach through the summer with jumpers, biplane rides, and tourists coming in for the weekend.
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You like calling them tourist…don’t you?:D
 
wanttaja said:
I understand and recognize that it's the current FAA guidance, but my plane is so slow they'll just forget about me before I get there....
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:yeahthat:
I make a first call depending on where I'm approaching from and who else is in the pattern. If somebody calls and says he's departing in my direction or approaching from the same direction as I am, I'll normally make a position call earlier than otherwise in reply.
 
Position reports are encouraged in my region. If the airport is using 122.9 or whatever the airspace CTAF is? Perhaps they need to get an assigned frequency.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I've always based my calls based on minutes, not miles. I'll give my distance in miles, but make the call 5 minutes out.
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One time at Okeechobee, I heard a Citation report five minutes, and two minutes, on a straight-in instrument approach. Great idea, and made it more clear.
 
Stewartb said:
Position reports are encouraged in my region. If the airport is using 122.9 or whatever the airspace CTAF is? Perhaps they need to get an assigned frequency.
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In Florida, there are so many fields that all of the Unicom frequencies and CTAF are busy.
 
Daleandee said:
I find it helpful to ask ATITPPA and to add "caution wake turbulence" to my radio calls ...:biggrin:
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I just use my best falsetto voice...."outta the way boys, I'm going to land now''....

Seriously though, there was a female in Alaska that was almost that bad. She would show up and land no matter if there were planes in the pattern or not. There were several instances where she just showed up and landed either not talking or on the wrong frequency.

There was numerous complaints to the company she flew for but to no avail.

Sadly, she took care of the situation in the Arctic Ocean somewhere between Wainwright and Utqiaġvik (the Village formerly known as Barrow).
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Now that’s nuts.
Are the other 5? CTAF frequencies tied up in that area? I’d propose to the FCC/FAA a change.
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PVC, CQX, 1B2, GHG, 6B6 (further than 30 miles to be fair) are all clearly heard on the Cape. Every once in a great while we hear 1B6 as well. On a clear weather day, the radio is almost constant doubling.
 
PaulS said:
I'm out of Laconia now, but fly to the cape fairly often. I hear mainly Maine airports, NH airports and a lot from Plum Island. Not a big deal, except for that squeal, I hate that. I like Chatham, but every time I try to go to the restaurant it's full with a long wait. One day...
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Make a plan to come down in the fall before they shut down for the winter. Much less of a wait. Let me know if you do, I'll join you for a cup of coffee. Hangar B is one of (if not THE) best airport restaurants in the country.
 
KE5BM said:
PVC, CQX, 1B2, GHG, 6B6 (further than 30 miles to be fair) are all clearly heard on the Cape. Every once in a great while we hear 1B6 as well. On a clear weather day, the radio is almost constant doubling.
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Why don’t you map out the airports using the other ctaf frequencies, maybe they would consider switching your airport.
Or could there be a reason they want them all on the same?
 
I think some of the far out announcing is from faster commercial pilots basically saying get out of my way, not taking responsibility otherwise.

"Any other traffic please advise".

Self‐Announce Position and/or Intentions
  1. General. Self‐announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self‐announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
 
Zeldman said:
I just use my best falsetto voice...."outta the way boys, I'm going to land now''....

Seriously though, there was a female in Alaska that was almost that bad. She would show up and land no matter if there were planes in the pattern or not. There were several instances where she just showed up and landed either not talking or on the wrong frequency.

There was numerous complaints to the company she flew for but to no avail.

Sadly, she took care of the situation in the Arctic Ocean somewhere between Wainwright and Utqiaġvik (the Village formerly known as Barrow).
Click to expand...
I announce "get out of my way or you are going to die!

Seriously time makes more sense to announce.

I usually speak up at about 6-7 nm out when I am in my 172. If I hear planes in the pattern I will announce sooner.
Closer to 10 out in my buddies arrow II P28R200.
 
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