Androids or iSheep?

Rene Ritchie is a podcaster that’s pretty much up on all things Apple.

I have not watched it yet, but I expect this to be a comprehensive and unbiased take on this latest Apple brouhaha:

There's no such thing as an "unbiased" take on anything — we're all standing somewhere, looking out.

This guy's big on empathy ("hard problem," "both sides") but he skips around the real question: why does Apple have to scan for CASM on the device pre-upload instead of on the iCloud servers post-upload?
 
There's no such thing as an "unbiased" take on anything — we're all standing somewhere, looking out.

That's not true. I have never flown a Champ, nor a Luscombe, and have 0 high wing tail dragger time. If someone was to ask me my opinion on those planes, I am about as unbiased as you can get since I have no experience with either one. I'll look up specs on each one, and give them all that information. Just facts, and unbiased.
 
There's no such thing as an "unbiased" take on anything — we're all standing somewhere, looking out.

Good point. I should have said relatively unbiased.

He’s largely immersed in the Apple world, but he’s taken them to task for poor decisions in the past.

…but he skips around the real question: why does Apple have to scan for CASM on the device pre-upload instead of on the iCloud servers post-upload?

Good question. I have nothing to hide, but Apple having any ability to “scan” my device(s) concerns me.

I have yet to watch the podcast, but hope to later today.
 
Started the podcast just now, and about half way through.

Rene just said that all this only applies “…if you have iCloud Photo Library switched on in Settings.” So it seems if you don’t care for this scheme come iOS 15, just don’t use iCloud Photo Library. Seems simple enough. I don’t, using Google Photo for my cloud photo solution, and I know Flickr offers a similar service.
 
Rene just said that all this only applies “…if you have iCloud Photo Library switched on in Settings.” So it seems if you don’t care for this scheme come iOS 15, just don’t use iCloud Photo Library. Seems simple enough. I don’t, using Google Photo for my cloud photo solution, and I know Flickr offers a similar service.
True, except that the code will still be there on your device, and (as the Electronic Frontier Foundation pointed out) you're forced to trust Apple's promises about how and for what purpose they will/won't activate the it. Inactive spyware is obviously better than active spyware, but not installing it on the device in the first place is a better option.
 
I generally can't stand any of Apple's IOS products, mainly because I find them extremely difficult to use. Never mind the inflated prices, lack of features, crippled interfaces, non-expandable memory, lack of repairability, and proprietary connections.

That said, I did bite the bullet and buy an iPad mini 4 (128GB, cell, GPS) via Swappa.com. New in a sealed box for ~$300. A member of the flying club gave me a RAM mount, which I'm very grateful for. I went with Foreflight, figuring that just the cost of updating charts alone made Foreflight worth the cost. Having had the iPad for 8 months, I still reach for my $150 Kindle Fire HD 10 for everything other than flying as it's just more convenient. Battery life on the iPad is pretty good, thankfully since its none to quick to charge.

I've never played with Apple's stuff, but I assume a motivated 15-year-old hacker could do that in a few days if they had physical access to the device, and the password wasn't strong -- and clearly, someone did.

Matt Guthmiller might have been able to help them. He's had a little experience with Apple..around that age, I believe.

I am pretty sure Apple is getting paid to gather this data...why would they do this otherwise...follow the money and you will see the bigger picture.

You're more correct than you know.
 
That's not true. I have never flown a Champ, nor a Luscombe, and have 0 high wing tail dragger time. If someone was to ask me my opinion on those planes, I am about as unbiased as you can get since I have no experience with either one. I'll look up specs on each one, and give them all that information. Just facts, and unbiased.
Just facts is not review.

Tim

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I am pretty sure Apple is getting paid to gather this data...why would they do this otherwise...follow the money and you will see the bigger picture.
Gather what data, and what money?

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True, except that the code will still be there on your device, and (as the Electronic Frontier Foundation pointed out) you're forced to trust Apple's promises about how and for what purpose they will/won't activate the it. Inactive spyware is obviously better than active spyware, but not installing it on the device in the first place is a better option.
Actually EFF is wrong in this case.
First of all, tech companies using EFF terms spy on us extensively already. Much more than you want to know.
Every device effectively has a fingerprint which shows up in all calls to the server unless the app developer is supper careful and does not use the standard libraries provided by Apple or Google.
Second you IP address is Geo mapped, and actually associated with all your devices (this is why Norton and others now sell a VPN to scramble your IP).
By running this on the device, you eliminate all the additional meta data surveillance.
It also has Apple avoid some local laws, mostly in Asia. Certain images in Asia require police notification by Apple if the image is loaded on their servers. And Apple has to provide all information gathered about the device.

The additional meta data is how Google ads know to show you luggage and rental cars on your PC after you search for airplane tickets on your phone.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Actually EFF is wrong in this case.
First of all, tech companies using EFF terms spy on us extensively already. Much more than you want to know.
Every device effectively has a fingerprint which shows up in all calls to the server unless the app developer is supper careful and does not use the standard libraries provided by Apple or Google.
Second you IP address is Geo mapped, and actually associated with all your devices (this is why Norton and others now sell a VPN to scramble your IP).
By running this on the device, you eliminate all the additional meta data surveillance.
It also has Apple avoid some local laws, mostly in Asia. Certain images in Asia require police notification by Apple if the image is loaded on their servers. And Apple has to provide all information gathered about the device.

The additional meta data is how Google ads know to show you luggage and rental cars on your PC after you search for airplane tickets on your phone.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Thank you Tim. Those are all obvious points for those of us in IT, but I trust they will be helpful for others in the forum.

I support the EFF's position — there are many ways that IT companies, governments, etc can track us externally, but breaching a device's security perimeter and scanning files on the device before they're shared is a pretty strong line for any legitimate vendor to cross, much less a company that has built part of its reputation around security boasts.

The legal-liability point is a good one, but that's easily addressed by sandboxing uploads on the server side until they've been scanned. No need to scan files on the user's device.
 
Gather what data, and what money?

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I actually do believe that Apple's acting in good faith right now — following Hanlon's Razor, it's likely incompetence/cluelessness rather than malace (plus ego — Apple always wants to do things differently so that they can claim to be better than everyone else, but it backfired hard this time).

I don't trust that that the same people and/or the same good intentions will still be in place at Apple 2 years from now, but the spyware still will be. And spyware is like Chekov's gun — if it's there, it will eventually be used.
 
Thank you Tim. Those are all obvious points for those of us in IT, but I trust they will be helpful for others in the forum.

I support the EFF's position — there are many ways that IT companies, governments, etc can track us externally, but breaching a device's security perimeter and scanning files on the device before they're shared is a pretty strong line for any legitimate vendor to cross, much less a company that has built part of its reputation around security boasts.

The legal-liability point is a good one, but that's easily addressed by sandboxing uploads on the server side until they've been scanned. No need to scan files on the user's device.

Look closer at Apple's release. The scan only occurs on the device before submission to iCloud. As long as you do not link to iCloud photos (I think that was the service name).
Based on previous stuff Apple has done, it most likely acts like a stand alone service which is an authentication and caching proxy on the device which does the scan.

Tim
 
I actually do believe that Apple's acting in good faith right now — following Hanlon's Razor, it's likely incompetence/cluelessness rather than malace (plus ego — Apple always wants to do things differently so that they can claim to be better than everyone else, but it backfired hard this time).

I don't trust that that the same people and/or the same good intentions will still be in place at Apple 2 years from now, but the spyware still will be. And spyware is like Chekov's gun — if it's there, it will eventually be used.

If you do not trust them, does not matter where the scan is performed, on the device or in the cloud. Both can be used for nefarious services, in this case, in the cloud has much more potential for nefarious action.

Tim
 
Key word on original post is: irrational. He said it, not I.
I could rationalize it somewhat but hey, I bought 1 Rolex that doesn't keep any better time or is more water resistant than my dozen Seikos or Timex. I know some use the opposite reasoning. I could rationalize over the overheat shutdowns, my former iphones did that countless times, but as others would say and I agree, it's a safety feature not a bug. Maybe the finger swipe code? Has Apple added a similar feature yet. Does Apple offer anything Mil-Spec tough? They are 'da bomb IMHO.
Ya, irrational dislike, similar to that guy that has that certain "punchable face". At least I'm sure it's not jealousy or envy, like why I despise Tom Brady
 
If you do not trust them, does not matter where the scan is performed, on the device or in the cloud. Both can be used for nefarious services, in this case, in the cloud has much more potential for nefarious action.

Tim
I disagree. Scanning in the cloud affects only things I've chosen to share off my device (even though I still should have a reasonable expectation of privacy).

I don't think you can rationalise Apple out of this one — they just messed up, and for a company that's usually PR-savvy, it was a whopper.
 
I have a very strong opinion that a Chevy is better than a Ford and a Ford is better than a Chevy!

I think there are some people who need to focus their minds on something that is important.
 
MacBreak Weekly opens with an extended and informed discussion of the issue:


Overall, I don’t think they’re fans, criticizing not only the implementation, but the way it was rolled out.
 
I have a very strong opinion that a Chevy is better than a Ford and a Ford is better than a Chevy!

I think there are some people who need to focus their minds on something that is important.
Recent posts have been about a major security and privacy debate in the news, not brand preference (normal thread drift).

But still, given that the original subject line was about brand preferences, no need to open the thread at all if the subject doesn't interest you — leave it to forum members who (rightly or wrongly) do care about Ford vs Chevy, Piper vs Cessna, Pepsi vs Coke, Avidyne vs Garmin, singles vs twins, etc. Cheers.
 
iPad mini with foreflight for me. I have an android phone so always on the lookout for a good backup. I personally prefer foreflight to any android app I've tried, but that also might just be because I'm so used to it.
 
iPad mini with foreflight for me. I have an android phone so always on the lookout for a good backup. I personally prefer foreflight to any android app I've tried, but that also might just be because I'm so used to it.
I'd suggest just FltPlan Go on your Android phone as a backup. It has a clunky UI, but it's 100% free, uses much less CPU than Garmin Pilot or Foreflight (because it was designed for older devices), starts up fast, and is rock solid (in my experience) as a platform for basics like moving maps, geo-referenced approach plates, airport info, and flight planning.

The nice thing about having a different app as a backup is that if ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot puts out a buggy release, you don't have the same bug on all your devices.
 
Why do you say "iSheep?"
Not a fan of the term myself. It's from the expression "sheeple" (people who blindly follow something, like sheep following a shepherd). "Sheeple" is on my list of trite, over-used terms, along with others like "cancel culture", "politically correct", "redneck", and "fascist" (unless the person is an actual fascist, which is rare these days). When you see any of those surface in a discussion, you know the intelligence meter is falling fast.
 
I'm certain that you know the answer to your question. I'm an iPhone user but I'm not rabid about it ...
Well, I kind of know the answer, but it doesn’t make any sense. I don’t see many people buying iOS products blindly because that’s what the neighbors are doing. But I see LOTS of people eschewing Apple because they’re too cool, just like all of the cool kids at their work. So maybe there’s such a thing as a “Galaxy Sheep?”

Cue the rabid, sensitive Droid guys.
 
The only reason I own an ipad is ForeFlight. Started years ago with an ipad 2.
I would gladly buy an android otherwise...my phone is an android. I DO think the ipad is more user friendly than a Kindle Fire. I don't really care what is cool and what everybody else is using...it is a tool in my toolbox.
 
Well, I kind of know the answer, but it doesn’t make any sense. I don’t see many people buying iOS products blindly because that’s what the neighbors are doing. But I see LOTS of people eschewing Apple because they’re too cool, just like all of the cool kids at their work. So maybe there’s such a thing as a “Galaxy Sheep?”

Cue the rabid, sensitive Droid guys.
What about the rabid, sensitive Open Source guys? ;) Android is an open-source mobile-device OS based on Linux; Samsung is a phone and tablet manufacturer that happens to use Android (with a lot of their own and Google's apps preinstalled).

That said, I don't think Android (or Samsung) is a lifestyle choice for many people. The hipper-than-the-hipster types use retro flip phones. (Seriously — Google them.)
 
I like Samsung TV's and Ipads... where am I on the brand loyalty scale?
 
I'd suggest just FltPlan Go on your Android phone as a backup. It has a clunky UI, but it's 100% free, uses much less CPU than Garmin Pilot or Foreflight (because it was designed for older devices), starts up fast, and is rock solid (in my experience) as a platform for basics like moving maps, geo-referenced approach plates, airport info, and flight planning.

The nice thing about having a different app as a backup is that if ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot puts out a buggy release, you don't have the same bug on all your devices.

I kind of went the other way and moved to 100% iApple with an iPad and iPhone both running ForeFlight.

The buggy release thing was a concern for this old IT guy but fact is, FF isn’t putting out buggy releases. In the 10+ years I’ve been running for 1300 hours of flying, I can’t recall any failures.

For a few years I made sure my phone was backlevel for backup and of course FF takes the time to inform users of their testing of new iOS releases before recommending they be loaded. But now I pay little attention to staggering software levels or to the backup iPhone itself because I’ve never needed it. However it is easy to use in a restaurant or cab for briefings or filings with I might not be carrying my iPad.

The big advantage to me of staying on a single platform is bandwidth - that is, I simply don’t have enough to stay proficient on so many different devices. Periodically I do have to work out on the FF on the iPhone because it is a little different than the iPad version but not much. I try to stay focused on panel and flying proficiency and simply don’t have bandwidth to waste on another platform.

I have enough belts, suspenders, safety pins, rope and gum on board without adding another bandaid I don’t need.


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I kind of went the other way and moved to 100% iApple with an iPad and iPhone both running ForeFlight.

The buggy release thing was a concern for this old IT guy but fact is, FF isn’t putting out buggy releases. In the 10+ years I’ve been running for 1300 hours of flying, I can’t recall any failures.

For a few years I made sure my phone was backlevel for backup and of course FF takes the time to inform users of their testing of new iOS releases before recommending they be loaded. But now I pay little attention to staggering software levels or to the backup iPhone itself because I’ve never needed it. However it is easy to use in a restaurant or cab for briefings or filings with I might not be carrying my iPad.

The big advantage to me of staying on a single platform is bandwidth - that is, I simply don’t have enough to stay proficient on so many different devices. Periodically I do have to work out on the FF on the iPhone because it is a little different than the iPad version but not much. I try to stay focused on panel and flying proficiency and simply don’t have bandwidth to waste on another platform.

I have enough belts, suspenders, safety pins, rope and gum on board without adding another bandaid I don’t need.


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I'm going for both hardware and software redundancy -- I have 2–3 Android devices with me on each flight, each of them running both Garmin Pilot and FltPlan Go. That's probably overkill, since I also have the panel-mounted GTN 650 with its own nav database and map, but it has come in handy (for example, once I messed up updating GP, but was able to switch seamlessly to FltPlan Go to open the plate for my approach).
 
I will add that I have never had a problem with avare but since I switched to Garmin pilot I have had a lot of connection issues and freeze ups. I am on a free trial subscription but when it comes time to pay for it, I may just go back to avare.
I also was/am an Avare user, but since getting Garmin Connect ADS-B In, I gave Garmin Pilot a try for ADS-B weather which only sometimes works. They fix it in one version then in the next version it is broke again. Currently it does not work only traffic does. Most ADS-B weather works on Fltplan Go except radar.
 
I also was/am an Avare user, but since getting Garmin Connect ADS-B In, I gave Garmin Pilot a try for ADS-B weather which only sometimes works. They fix it in one version then in the next version it is broke again. Currently it does not work only traffic does. Most ADS-B weather works on Fltplan Go except radar.
Mine seems to work perfectly if I can get it to connect on Bluetooth. Seems I have to go through the pairing process every time and even that's a crapshoot. Seems to have a problem connecting to my tablet but starting pilot at a specific time in the process gets it going most of the time. But yeah, it's a pain in the arse getting it all going. Once I get connected it works as advertised.
 
Well, I kind of know the answer, but it doesn’t make any sense. I don’t see many people buying iOS products blindly because that’s what the neighbors are doing. But I see LOTS of people eschewing Apple because they’re too cool, just like all of the cool kids at their work. So maybe there’s such a thing as a “Galaxy Sheep?”

Cue the rabid, sensitive Droid guys.

I know a particular group of people who use android just because it has their range and windage calculator on it, among other things. They're not the most sensitive bunch...sometimes not the most accurate, either, but that's a different story.
 
I used to be adamantly pro-droid and anti-Apple. I feel like in years long past, droid devices were much more secure, configurable, open-source, etc than the ubiquitous iProducts. But as the years ticked by and Google grew as a global cyber-superpower(and consumers grew less informed and more complacent), I feel like they offer much less privacy nowadays than my current iPhone 12. I've seen a few too many articles and reputable youtubers highlighting Google's increasingly nefarious ways of harvesting your sweet, sweet lucrative data.

My scales tipped full-deflection when I started noticing how many "features" were opt-out instead of opt-in. I.e. privacy-usurping "services" such as Google sending EVERYTHING you type on that phone to a server, silently keylogging all texts, web searches, private conversations, logins, everything, unless you knew to dig many layers deep in convoluted settings to disable it.

And on top of all that, droid devices(at least the nicer ones) have been just as user-unservicable as Apple products. Not to mention the OS's are pretty much functionally the same lately. Aside from the special breed of nerds that need to run DOOM on everything with a a screen, I imagine very few even go that far into customizing settings anymore. Hell, I haven't even changed ringtones in years.

So when it came time to finally replace my iPhone 6 this year, I opted to stay on the iWagon and and be able to use ForeFlight. At least Apple seems more upfront about privacy-related issues and changes. I have no doubt that they have full view of everything i do on my phone, but I still have Siri disabled and don't use any Alexa/IoT devices. Despite all of the above I feel no need for me or anyone else to talk to my garage doors/tv/lamps/dishwasher.

TL;DR - Android is no longer any better than Apple from privacy, serviceability, or longevity standpoints, and I no longer see any reason to be rabidly in one camp or the other.
 
I used to be adamantly pro-droid and anti-Apple. I feel like in years long past, droid devices were much more secure, configurable, open-source, etc than the ubiquitous iProducts. But as the years ticked by and Google grew as a global cyber-superpower(and consumers grew less informed and more complacent), I feel like they offer much less privacy nowadays than my current iPhone 12. I've seen a few too many articles and reputable youtubers highlighting Google's increasingly nefarious ways of harvesting your sweet, sweet lucrative data.

My scales tipped full-deflection when I started noticing how many "features" were opt-out instead of opt-in. I.e. privacy-usurping "services" such as Google sending EVERYTHING you type on that phone to a server, silently keylogging all texts, web searches, private conversations, logins, everything, unless you knew to dig many layers deep in convoluted settings to disable it.

And on top of all that, droid devices(at least the nicer ones) have been just as user-unservicable as Apple products. Not to mention the OS's are pretty much functionally the same lately. Aside from the special breed of nerds that need to run DOOM on everything with a a screen, I imagine very few even go that far into customizing settings anymore. Hell, I haven't even changed ringtones in years.

So when it came time to finally replace my iPhone 6 this year, I opted to stay on the iWagon and and be able to use ForeFlight. At least Apple seems more upfront about privacy-related issues and changes. I have no doubt that they have full view of everything i do on my phone, but I still have Siri disabled and don't use any Alexa/IoT devices. Despite all of the above I feel no need for me or anyone else to talk to my garage doors/tv/lamps/dishwasher.

TL;DR - Android is no longer any better than Apple from privacy, serviceability, or longevity standpoints, and I no longer see any reason to be rabidly in one camp or the other.
They all do it. If you are against tracking and datamining, get a dedicated aviation tablet and turn off wifi.
 
TL;DR - Android is no longer any better than Apple from privacy, serviceability, or longevity standpoints, and I no longer see any reason to be rabidly in one camp or the other.
That was more-or-less true until Apple's latest announcement that they're going to enable scanning apps on the user's device, with a weak excuse that it's to detect child porn being uploaded to iCloud (technically, it would be simpler and safer for user privacy to scan the file on the server side when it's being uploaded, like other cloud providers do, rather than breaching the privacy protection of the user's device).

As for Google, fully agree that they've gone from "Don't be evil" to being almost as bad as Facebook — deactivate or opt out of as many of their apps as you can, or if you're seriously concerned about privacy, install core AOSP on your device instead of Google's OEM version with all the closed-source proprietary additions. Google != Android.
 
Mine seems to work perfectly if I can get it to connect on Bluetooth. Seems I have to go through the pairing process every time and even that's a crapshoot. Seems to have a problem connecting to my tablet but starting pilot at a specific time in the process gets it going most of the time. But yeah, it's a pain in the arse getting it all going. Once I get connected it works as advertised.
What Garmin device are you pairing with, a GTX345? My bluetooth connects fine and shows connected, it gets traffic but no other weather. My Google Pixel phone is running Pilot 7.7.5 and it works, my Samsung Galaxy S6 Lite tablet was also working on the same version, but now with Pilot version 7.8.2 there is no ADS-B weather.
 
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