An argument for a paper log book - filled my first one.

[RussR]

If you're careful and organized, of course you'll be fine: corporations and governments have data going back to the 1960s or earlier, that started on punchcards or reel-to-reel mag tape.

The point is that an electronic logbook requires you to do all that extra work and stay on top of it to make sure you don't lose it over the decades. A paper logbook in a fireproof safe will outlive you without any extra effort.

I have no objection to using an electronic logbook, but it's always secondary for me, never my primary reference.

I think you're making a really big deal out of nothing here.

"all that extra work"?

There's basically none. I currently use myflightbook for my electronic log. It automatically saves backups for me on my own cloud drive, every night. If @EricBe were to just decide one day to pull the plug on the whole thing, I could turn around and upload that backup in .csv format to another electronic logbook. Might be a little bit of data massaging, might not.

That's not any amount of "staying of top of it", especially compared to the ease of use and convenience and overall time-saving features of the online logbook. It doesn't even require being particularly "careful and organized".

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you're careful and organized, of course you'll be fine: corporations and governments have data going back to the 1960s or earlier, that started on punchcards or reel-to-reel mag tape.

The point is that an electronic logbook requires you to do all that extra work and stay on top of it to make sure you don't lose it over the decades. A paper logbook in a fireproof safe will outlive you without any extra effort.

I have no objection to using an electronic logbook, but it's always secondary for me, never my primary reference.

Whatever. Just another high wing/low wing argument to me. I guess after doing it a few times over the course of 30 years, I just don't see moving something as simple as logbook data from old to new when both technologies overlap as big a deal as you do. Besides, if I did want to save it on paper for posterity, I could always print it out in a standard logbook format, maybe even bind it, and put an extra copy in your fireproof safe.

 

[Brad W]

I was thinking about this conversation and thinking back. I'm still in a the paper camp I guess, but one thing that really bugged me a few times was a screw up in the paper log book....such as bad math, or putting something in the wrong column and then it carrying forward a few pages. It just gets sloppy quick.

Similarly, I have a couple a couple question marks in my log history regarding the aircraft types or equipment. Not that these matter really, but when i was going back and entering my paper log into a spreadsheet, I was adding wherever I could find out the actual type and aircraft serial numbers. I found a few errors such as the old Champ I flew being recorded as a 7BCM by my CFI but I found out in my research it was actually a 7AC.
I found a couple CFI induced errors regarding complex vs high performance time logged. Very easy to fix in the electronic log.
Less critical I was curious about various trivia, such as how much of my 172 time was in N models, etc...so I went back and added that information, along with HP engines in all the planes I've logged, etc... I've got about 1.6 hours in 172's that I have no idea what model or anything about them. I wonder if I wrote the tail numbers down wrong.... I guess the electronic thing wouldn't have helped there...but might have helped me to be able to go back and find out what that CFI's name was that I flew with a few times long ago. The only name I recall was his nickname, Hawkeye, and the scribble in the book is completely illegible.... Legend was that he was a WW2 pilot but I never talked with him about it. Interesting character regardless, and I'd love to be able to research the guy....

 

[David Megginson]

I think you're making a really big deal out of nothing here.

"all that extra work"?

There's basically none. I currently use myflightbook for my electronic log. It automatically saves backups for me on my own cloud drive, every night. If @EricBe were to just decide one day to pull the plug on the whole thing, I could turn around and upload that backup in .csv format to another electronic logbook. Might be a little bit of data massaging, might not.

That's not any amount of "staying of top of it", especially compared to the ease of use and convenience and overall time-saving features of the online logbook. It doesn't even require being particularly "careful and organized".

I've worked in IT for over 30 years, and even so, there's stuff I no longer have in digital format (such as my Ph.D. thesis from 1992). Things fall through the cracks. And more generally, as anyone in IT knows, when a system works only if everyone remembers to do everything right all the time, it's a bad U/X design, even if it's technically "correct".

 

[RussR]

I've worked in IT for over 30 years, and even so, there's stuff I no longer have in digital format (such as my Ph.D. thesis from 1992). Things fall through the cracks. And more generally, as anyone in IT knows, when a system works only if everyone remembers to do everything right all the time, it's a bad U/X design, even if it's technically "correct".

I bet if you read and updated your thesis several times a week like we do with logbooks, it would easily stay in a readily accessible format. Sure, a Palm Pilot logbook that hasn't been touched in 20 years may be hard to access or convert now. And paper logbooks that haven't been thought of in 20 years often get lost, too.

Not sure what axe you're grinding here.

 

[Southpaw]

I have my fathers log books from his first training flight in 1945 to his last logged flight in 1977.
Not many hours but lots of memories for the trips I was along on.

 

[Gary Ward]

I went up for a short flight today to practice emergency procedures. Sitting in the hangar afterward I pulled out my logbook to fill in today's flight. I got two surprises.

The first was that my last flight was the last row in the logbook. I had no idea until I flipped the page. This is my first and only logbook. The first entry was April 15th, 1987.

Since that time, I have logged every single flight over the past 34 years. But I have done more than just logged hours. I put a comment about every flight. There are dozens of comments about taking people for their first flight. In all these cases I had the person sign my logbook.

There are comments about beautiful flights, and terrifying flights, long trips and camping with my dogs. There's my last trip with Lou Roskie to Nut Tree where we both got watermelon ice cream cones. Lou was a crotchety old bastard, but he let me fly his plane.

There are three flights noted where I almost killed myself. And one where I almost killed my son. There's the trip with my ex-wife where we surveyed the damage from the 1989 earthquake in San Francisco.

There are two flights with two beautiful girls (not at the same time), but my flying skills was not enough to impress them apparently....

On August 12, 2000, I took another beautiful woman up for her first flight. She signed her name and added a smiley face. I guess my piloting skills impressed her because two years later she married me.

On August 18, 2000, I took my career air force father up for his first flight with me as his pilot. He signed my logbook too.

On September 15, after 2 ½ years of hell, I logged my first flight in my homebuilt aircraft. The remarks column simply says, “First flight - Woohoo”.

On March 30, 2020, I took my papillon, Willy, for his first flight. Somehow, I managed to get his paw print into the logbook, and it is still legible.

Since it was the last page, I added up all the columns and got another surprise. My last flight put my total hours at 1000.8.

I frequently go back and read through my logbook. There is something special about this handwritten record of some of the greatest memories of my life. Since I need a new logbook I thought about going digital, and then ordered a new analogue one.

View attachment 100135 View attachment 100136

I am sorry for hijacking your thread a couple days ago. You surely have many more memory's and experience in 30 years of flying. We would love to hear more about your flying career. Best regards, Gary

 

[Silvaire]

Back in the old days a lot of people used to log every flight in the aircraft logbook (there was a section for it) When I bought my Luscombe all the books came with it. The original owner bought it in Dallas Texas in August 1946 and flew it straight to Fairbanks Alaska - took him 51 hours.

 

[Lindberg]

My electronic logbook is backed up to the cloud. It is impervious to fire, flood, coffee spillage, loss, or natural disaster. It contains photos, videos, digital tracks, notes, and data of each of my flights. Individual flights may contain more data than would fill the pages of a paper logbook.

In an instant, I can tell you if I'm current and what flights prove it. I can tell you how many and what fights I had between any two dates. I can tell you how many hours I have in a particular category, class, type, or aircraft. I can tell you how many tailwheel landings, glider tows, banner pickups, and night flights faster than you can total the hours on a single page.

And I can do it from any phone or computer anywhere in the world.

I can also print it anytime I want.