America's GPS Problem

TRocket said:
A single event could wreck every GPS approach within your fuel range or even further. If you come upon an ILS outage chances are you can go find another one close by to get you safely on the ground
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Dang, you're right. The FAA should keep some minimum network of VORs operational to ensure safety of IFR flight in the event of a widespread GPS problem!
 
Deelee said:
Why would you prefer to live without it? Not arguing - everyone has their own preferences, and those are yours and yours alone. But I am not sure I have every heard anyone say they would prefer not to have GPS in their life. So maybe just a question borne out of curiosity.
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I feel that it has dumbed us down. We no longer have to think to get where we want to go. It has served to limit our interactions with strangers. No longer do you need to ask another human being for help with finding our way. More efficient? absolutely. Better? Meh.

Technologies often can be used for good and bad. It is all about intent. I don’t trust everyone’s intent.

But just for the record, I love my ForeFlight.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I feel that it has dumbed us down. We no longer have to think to get where we want to go. It has served to limit our interactions with strangers. No longer do you need to ask another human being for help with finding our way. More efficient? absolutely. Better? Meh.

Technologies often can be used for good and bad. It is all about intent. I don’t trust everyone’s intent.

But just for the record, I love my ForeFlight.
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Very good perspective
 
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Morgan3820 said:
I feel that it has dumbed us down. We no longer have to think to get where we want to go. It has served to limit our interactions with strangers. No longer do you need to ask another human being for help with finding our way.
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That could apply to most of the technological advances lately. Look at what the smart phone has done.

Go into a grocery store and give them cash and wait for the change. If the register don't tell them how much to give back many times they will blank stare at the machine until you prompt them with the answer.

We get so hung up on technology. Consider that some folks don't even need a watch (;)):

 
Morgan3820 said:
I feel that it has dumbed us down. We no longer have to think to get where we want to go. It has served to limit our interactions with strangers. No longer do you need to ask another human being for help with finding our way. More efficient? absolutely. Better? Meh.

Technologies often can be used for good and bad. It is all about intent. I don’t trust everyone’s intent.

But just for the record, I love my ForeFlight.
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I agree, to some extent overuse of tech dumbs us down. Fortunately we still have the freedom to go flying in most airspace without having to talk to ATC, squawk or use any GPS aids. When I go flying in my local area, I do just that.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the SA that something like Fore Flight provides on a long XC. When I did ATC, it was all before the proliferation of GPS. Even weather reporting stations at local airports were a new thing. Today, I really don’t need ATC for much. I don’t need a vector around weather or to find my destination. I don’t need the METAR for my destination. 99 % of their radar traffic advisories are not needed. Technology has allowed us to operate almost completely self contained without ATC assistance. I give it another 20 years until ATC, the human element, goes the way of FSSs.
 
nauga said:
Localized effects, sure, but that's not nearly the threat it's made out to be given the state of GPS-denied technology.

Nauga,
and the tactics of deception
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I'm not sure about that. Used to fly into Tel Aviv all the time. Like clockwork, we would get jammed on the approach. You could see the ANP roll up and pretty soon we'd get the "UNABLE RNP" message. Now, it was daylight and almost always sunny and clear there, so we would just tell approach we were visual and point at the runway and land. In the weather, it probably would have been a little more disconcerting.
 
Funny how some of the "old sayings" apply to lot of things: "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" fits pretty well here. :)
 
The European Galileo and Chinese BeiDou systems are now global in coverage in addition to GLONASS (Russian) and GPS. Some cell phones already process GPS, GLONASS and Galileo for US market. Soon the Beidou system will probably be accessible too. BeiDou also features a two-way link through which a short text message (Chinese characters) can be sent to the control center. None of the other GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite Systems) have this capability yet.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I feel that it has dumbed us down. We no longer have to think to get where we want to go. It has served to limit our interactions with strangers. No longer do you need to ask another human being for help with finding our way. More efficient? absolutely. Better? Meh.

Technologies often can be used for good and bad. It is all about intent. I don’t trust everyone’s intent.

But just for the record, I love my ForeFlight.
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First, this was a great response to my question. Thank you. All too often people take questions to their posts the wrong way. Thank you for taking my post as it was - a question and not a dig or attack.

Second... I kind of get your perspective on this. I flew today. I had absolutely no where to go... but I didn't want to just bore holes... So I picked a few airports that are close, but that I had never landed at. VA has this passport thing where you can get it stamped at airports where you land... I have a goal to get all the stamps.... So I set off for some airports that are so close I would have no reason to land there other than to collect the stamps.

I had this thread in the back of my mind and told myself - "Ok. You are going to load the next destination in the GPS (we have a basic 430w), but you aren't going to rely on it. You certainly aren't going to couple the autopilot to the GPS for the 20 minute flight.... You are going to use that magenta line as a reference or backup, but you aren't going to glue your eyes to it or force yourself to fly exactly along it...." And you know what? I had one of the most fun flights I have had in a long time.... A long time.. Just flying from airport A to B to C and then back home. I stopped and shut down at each little FBO. I talked to the guy at the counter at each one. Was amazingly fun and really made me appreciate how just unplugging can be liberating. (a bit.. ok I did still have these airports loaded...)

Anyway, maybe sometimes it is worth looking back at how fun this can be if we just take off with no particular place to go. Then pick the next destination after we land... repeat repeat until it's time to get back for dinner... Or maybe everybody else does get this, but today for me was eye opening and made me love flying even more than when I woke up this morning. In fact, the rest of the week is going to suck since it ain't gonna get better than flying today. :rofl:
 
TRocket said:
A single event could wreck every GPS approach within your fuel range or even further. If you come upon an ILS outage chances are you can go find another one close by to get you safely on the ground
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What is the specific nature of that single event?
 
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Tomorrow
 
Two different scenarios in two different articles here. The thread is based on the premise of the article implying widespread jamming. In the event that happens, there are backups for aviation. I’ve never flown an aircraft, whether it be military or civilian that was completely dependent on GPS. Degraded capability, yes but not out of the fight. And like I said, if it’s gotten to the point of mass degradation of the signal, it won’t matter on the civ side if you’ve got backups anyway. We’re at war and you can bet everything will be subject to MIJI including ATC radar and ground based NAVAIDs.

The second scenario of periodic testing that occurs isn’t widespread and while there have been several disturbances, the vast majority of aircraft are unaffected. Is it an accident waiting to happen? Possibly but it’s like saying a drone strike is an accident waiting to happen. Both are threats that most likely won’t occur but both are a reality in sharing the NAS with other users. If you’re in the NOTAM coverage area, shooting a GPS approach, while IMC, with nothing backing it up, then yeah there’s a slight risk involved there. GPS interference testing isn’t going away anytime soon so just plan on having a backup. It’s not that hard.
 
Yeah, there should be a backup system of ground-based navaids. They could call it the minimum operational network. Or something like that.
 
Arrow76R said:
BeiDou also features a two-way link through which a short text message (Chinese characters) can be sent to the control center.
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Any random person on Earth can transmit something to a Center in China, using a Chinese satellite?

I wonder how they avoid mischievous transmissions, like DOS attacks. Or mentions of Dalai Lama and Winnie the Pooh.
 
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