American Eagle response to the 1,500 rule

Let me ask you this? Would you do away entirely with the seniority system? Where would you put the pilot hired from outside the company? How would scheduling of lines of flying work? Vacations? Pay scales?
 
That only has to do with the colors painted on the outside. I don't think they use different procedures depending on what airline they are flying for. They use their own.

Which goes further to illustrate that procedures dont matter as much as they are made out to be, at the end of the day it's planes flying from A-->B-->C...
 
Which goes further to illustrate that procedures dont matter as much as they are made out to be, at the end of the day it's planes flying from A-->B-->C...

???

How do you come up with that? Procedures matter very much.

You seem to have the idea that the procedures for a company vary depending upon which mainline carrier they feed. That is simply not true.
 
Which goes further to illustrate that procedures dont matter as much as they are made out to be, at the end of the day it's planes flying from A-->B-->C...
I don't think you understand the problem. The actual procedures don't matter as much as the fact that everyone at a certain airline is on the same page with the same procedures. I've noticed that when people come from other places they tend to hang on to the way they used to do it before at some other company rather than adapting to a new way.
 
Let me ask you this? Would you do away entirely with the seniority system? Where would you put the pilot hired from outside the company? How would scheduling of lines of flying work? Vacations? Pay scales?

I work in a group of people, most of us can fill most boxes on the schedule (all are captains in that sense). Depending on who is available, the secretary will make a schedule for the upcoming week, if there are conflicts, they are sorted out between adults using trades, 3-way trades or griping :wink2:.
 
I've noticed that when people come from other places they tend to hang on to the way they used to do it before at some other company rather than adapting to a new way.

They would adapt a lot faster if getting fired for not adhering to policy was a part of the equation.

On my usual trip, I sit in planes operated by mainline Delta (ratty DC9s), Skywest (ratty RJ200s) or Compass (new ERJ175s). They take off, fly the same DPs, STARs, land and taxi to the same terminal. Maybe the vacation request form is different depending on the company.
 
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The top thing I've learned in the last 25 years of systems engineering and architecture is that if I'm being asked to modify an existing system as opposed to replacing it, I need to spend an awful lot of time learning why things are done "the way we've always done it". In the majority of cases, things are done the way they are because there are good reasons to do it that way that have stood the test of time. There occasionally are instances where things are done in a way that is stupid that reflects a stupid dicate of current managment, but stupidity generally doesn't survive regime change - the people doing the work know it's stupid and they convince the new management there's a better way.

Applying that wisdom to the airline and the 1500 rule, I have two observations:
First, there didn't seem to be any rational reason to apply the new rule. That's ok, it's a political mandate. Again, I am not speaking of crew rest or other parts, just the ATP requirement for part 121 FO's.
Second, I don't know anywhere near enough about the airline business to presume to tell them that their HR system is wrong/bad/stupid/etc, let alone to suggest changes. The seniority system is a teeny-tiny part of the overall airline business model, and changing it willy-nilly would almost certainly have significant consequences elsewhere in the system. Given that the profit margin in the airline business is already sucky, I'd be hesitant to make any changes without an awful lot of careful consideration.
 
They would adapt a lot faster if getting fired for not adhering to policy was a part of the equation.
What makes you think that it isn't? Some people are more resistant to change than others which brings us back to the advantage of using existing employees who are already part of the culture.

On my usual trip, I sit in planes operated by mainline Delta (ratty DC9s), Skywest (ratty RJ200s) or Compass (new ERJ175s). They take up, fly the same DPs and STARs and taxi to the same terminal. Maybe the vacation request form is different depending on the company.
When I was talking about procedures I wasn't talking about the published instrument procedures...
 
I think we can all see just how well the computer weenies run aviation businesses - Look at Vern Rayburn over at Eclipse jet and his buddy Ed Iacobucci over at Dayjet (what a TOTAL farce that was). Both of them got their ass handed to them by the industry. "Thanks for playing, computer boy, we have some nice parting gifts for you".
 
Are you a freelance instructor or do you instruct at an FBO? Just curious because I fly out of HFD. Sorry to get off topic.

A flight school, not an FBO. I won't say which one just because I don't want to toot my own horn.

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5 years from now the Majors might be paying for the new hires Commercial & ATP.

20 yrs from now, the planes might just fly themselves.

Like everything else that deals with planes, someone is going to loose lots of money :)

You can make any rule you want & there will still be good pilots, great pilots & no so great pilots in 121.
It really doesn't matter as much as you think. The worst pilot in my company in my type, has never crashed
 
So let me get this straight, you believe once a pilot is hired by an air carrier he no longer has to meet standards set forth by the regulations and the company? :dunno: Do you believe he is now "exempt" from recurrent evaluations as well as line evaluations?

Incorrect. That is not what I said. Read it again.

Meeting standards is not competition.

Some air carriers have an "up or out" clause in the pilot CBA, you upgrade when your time comes or you're out. When I was hired I was specifically told I was being hired to be a Captain. It makes no sense for the carrier to hire First Officers with the expectation they will never upgrade.

Which airlines? How long do they have? Is it ever waived? Is the number of airlines with this requirement growing or shrinking?

Everyone is hired to be a Captain. But there might be a far more qualified Captain available outside the company.

Think for example, football. You do your time after the draft but then become a free agent. They have a union too. Airline unions would never go for such a thing.
 
See it seems like at 250hrs sure, for some college grad it is a great opportunity for an internship. At 1,500hrs nobody who spent the time and/or money to get there is looking for an internship. It becomes a downgrade with MAYBE a chance for something better in a dying industry 10 years later? Maybe this is what they are afraid of, having to pay a living wage.

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I think what the 1500hr rule will do, is make the major/legacy carriers pillage the ranks of the regionals...and the regionals will wither on the vine. There are enough commuter pilots to supply the mainline for the forseable future, but who will replace THEM? Absent the airlines creating an ab-initio program, I wouldn't hazard to guess. The pay has to go up!
 
I think what the 1500hr rule will do, is make the major/legacy carriers pillage the ranks of the regionals...and the regionals will wither on the vine. There are enough commuter pilots to supply the mainline for the forseable future, but who will replace THEM? Absent the airlines creating an ab-initio program, I wouldn't hazard to guess. The pay has to go up!

Maybe give charter and GA another boost almost as good as the TSA did..

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Good friend of mine was hired then denied a class date. He's 21 and will not be 23 in time to get an ATP by the 2013 deadline.
 
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