American Airlines Hiring

[N1120A]

Not much at all. Unless they rise to the level of having a disability (and that may be a hard one for flight crews to argue), they don't get any mandated accommodation. Even with ADA involved, if the employer can argue it is essential to the job, they can deny the accomodation.

Eh, no one is going to win an argument that a vaccination is so essential to rise to failing to accommodate an actual disability. Plus, they could ultimately accommodate by scheduling in a manner consistent with countries that allow for such accommodations. However, given how rare there are legitimate medical reasons to not take a vaccine, it would probably affect literally 1-2 pilots at United.

 

[flyingron]

Again, "having a legitimate medical reason" doesn't necessarily put you in a protected class.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

This conversation is to the point a meaningful response is not possible anymore. I’ll be excusing myself. Y’all have fun.

 

[jordane93]

Delta now requires new hires to get the yellow fever shot before starting work. That is new.

Yellow fever shot has been in place well before Covid. Probably for a few decades now

 

[Larry in TN]

As of October, United had 232 TOTAL employees who faced termination over refusal to do the right thing. There definitely aren't 2000 pilots there who have done this.

It's difficult to get exact numbers but CEO Scott Kirby has stated some numbers publically.

6 pilots were fired for refusing to get the vaccination and not having a request for accommodation approved. I don't know any of those 6 but my guess is that they had decided that this was their time to retire anyway and took this opportunity to push-to-test.

While there had been a little over 300 pilots who received approval on their accommodation request, Kirby has most recently stated that only about 80 are on unpaid leave which suggests that the rest changed their minds and got vaxxed instead of going on unpaid leave.

The policy is that those 80 will remain on unpaid leave until the pandemic "meaningly subsides".

United's defense will almost certainly be that the accommodation is reasonable

My understanding is the ~2000 employees are challenging the offered accommodation of unpaid leave. They are not challenging the vaccine mandate itself. They are arguing that there are accommodations that are more reasonable than the one which has been offered. I'm not sure that the Federal regulation requiring this process mandates the "most reasonable" accommodation, only "a" reasonable accommodation.

Canada has not technically required foreign air crews to be vaccinated yet, but I believe that starts in a week. That will cut off short haul as well as long haul pilots who already are mandated in most countries.

Before the vaccine mandate began, countries started requiring inbound crewmembers to be vaccinated. That was handled by removing the unvaccinated pilot from the trip without pay but that creates other problems. If the trip is a less desirable trip, a more senior crewmember might be forced to fly it instead of a more desirable trip that he otherwise could have flown. That abrogates seniority.

 

[6t6]

Amazing how things have changed. When I went to my AA interview. They were planning to hire about 49 in the next year. They had over 5000 qualified applicants on file. There were 6 of us in the morning and 6 in the afternoon. mini physical. Out of 2 days, so 24 applicants, 2 would make it to the second phase of the interview process. I made it through several, but ultimately wasn't successful because of an item in my family tree history. Amazing how things have changed!

Like what?

 

[flyingron]

Well not getting paid is not an accommodation that would fly under ADA. However, there are two things that basically matter: that the accommodation is being asked for a disability and that the accommodation being asked for isn't incompatible with the job. No employer is required to put up with even substandard performance because of the disability.

 

[N1120A]

Well not getting paid is not an accommodation that would fly under ADA.

That's actually false. An unpaid leave can and frequently is considered a reasonable accommodation under the ADA and analogous state laws. FMLA and analogous state job protected leave is similarly unpaid.

 

[jbDC9]

Like what?

Like what what? Try reading and comprehending. Hiring 50/month is quite a change from 50/year.

 

[Groundpounder]

Yellow fever shot has been in place well before Covid. Probably for a few decades now

It was a question on the app when I updated it last, but that was the first time I had seen it.

 

[jordane93]

It was a question on the app when I updated it last, but that was the first time I had seen it.

They may have recently added it to airline apps but it was always a pre requisite after they gave you a CJO.

 

[Pilots Of America Management]

The thread is being re-opened as we realize these can be valuable conversations to have with regards to airline employment. We intend to keep this discussion open, as long as it doesn’t turn into a political debate.

 

[Groundpounder]

I heard that the major airlines will try to hire at least 9500 pilots in 2022. That is amazing. There are people getting multiple CJO's at once.

 

[Ashlyn Maria]

6 pilots were fired for refusing to get the vaccination and not having a request for accommodation approved.
...80 will remain on unpaid leave until the pandemic "meaningly subsides".

My understanding is the ~2000 employees are challenging the offered accommodation of unpaid leave.

What's the difference between "unpaid leave" and getting fired?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

 

[Larry in TN]

What's the difference between "unpaid leave" and getting fired?

Fired means you no longer work for the airline. You no longer have any connection to the airline.

A pilot on unpaid leave maintains their job and seniority. When the pandemic "meaningfully subsides" they come back to active status.

 

[aterry1067]

I heard that the major airlines will try to hire at least 9500 pilots in 2022. That is amazing. There are people getting multiple CJO's at once.

That's awesome. I would think the ripple effect would open a lot of doors for CFI jobs in local flight schools as well. Lots of potential scholarships and incentives might be on the horizon for anyone thinking about advancing their aviation goals.

 

[Groundpounder]

That's awesome. I would think the ripple effect would open a lot of doors for CFI jobs in local flight schools as well. Lots of potential scholarships and incentives might be on the horizon for anyone thinking about advancing their aviation goals.

Every part of aviation will see upward movement, and/or staffing issues.

 

[flyingron]

That's actually false. An unpaid leave can and frequently is considered a reasonable accommodation under the ADA and analogous state laws.

I contend that is NOT. The whole point of the ADA is to allow people to continue getting paid, not to put them on furlough.

FMLA and analogous state job protected leave is similarly unpaid.

FMLA and the state leave you are talking about are different beasts. FMLA doesn't require a disability and is a distinct law from the ADA.

 

[N1120A]

I contend that is NOT. The whole point of the ADA is to allow people to continue getting paid, not to put them on furlough.

FMLA and the state leave you are talking about are different beasts. FMLA doesn't require a disability and is a distinct law from the ADA.

FMLA and analogous state job protected leaves exist to deal with serious health conditions, which would extend to disabilities as well as certain non-disabilities.

And no, you are absolutely, 100% incorrect on the ADA. Unpaid leave is considered a reasonable accommodation under the ADA (and analogous state laws), in many circumstances.
Garcia-Ayala v. Lederle Parenterals, Inc., 212 F. 3d 638 (1st Cir. 2000), Fuller v. Frank, 916 F. 2d 558, 562 (9th Cir. 1990), Myers v. Hose, 50 F. 3d 278, 283 (4th Cir. 1995), citing 29 C.F.R. § 1630.2(o).

This is literally what I do for a living.