Am I Being a Jerk?

Am I Being a Jerk?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 6.3%

  • No

    Votes: 16 50.0%

  • A little

    Votes: 4 12.5%

  • Waffles

    Votes: 10 31.3%
  • Total voters
    32
H

HerrGruyere

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
720
Location
Middle River, MD
Display Name
Display name:
Pistol Pete
Yesterday, I went up to knock out some solo flight time requirements. The pattern wasn't crowded at all, but I noticed that they were giving people left traffic for a runway that normally has right traffic. No big deal. After a while, they would give me clearance to take off, but they would not specify if they wanted me to do right or left traffic. I'd ask to clarify and they'd give me my preference, to which I said I didn't care.

Also, occasionally I would receive my clearance with right or left traffic, and then a few seconds later I would ask again to clarify. For some reason, my head would say, "Yeah, right traffic. Got it." And then be like, "Wait... left traffic, right?" This was towards my last bit, so I was becoming fatigued.

Lastly, I am not able to do touch 'n' gos. I have to do a full-stop and taxi back.

The controllers did not sound mad or irritated by any means (they are usually very friendly), and I am definitely honing this down the next time I'm up. Honestly, it'd be much easier if I could just do a touch 'n' go, but rules are rules. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not being a jerk with my calls.
 
Doesn't sound like it, asking for clarification/confirmation especially on a non standard instructions is perfectly fine.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Yesterday, I went up to knock out some solo flight time requirements. The pattern wasn't crowded at all, but I noticed that they were giving people left traffic for a runway that normally has right traffic. No big deal. After a while, they would give me clearance to take off, but they would not specify if they wanted me to do right or left traffic. I'd ask to clarify and they'd give me my preference, to which I said I didn't care.
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First, I vote waffles. ALWAYS waffles. But based on this post its not possible to judge whether you were a jerk or not. That said...

Second - you are PIC. Your job is to care. No matter whether you're under ATC direction or not, YOU are the final arbiter of what happens on your airplane.

If they don't care which way you go, then re-assume the command over your direction. Don't pass it back to them - the buck stops in your butt.

Good you recognized your fatigue - bad that you didn't stop after the first time you noticed it.

The controllers did not sound mad or irritated by any means (they are usually very friendly), and I am definitely honing this down the next time I'm up. Honestly, it'd be much easier if I could just do a touch 'n' go, but rules are rules. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not being a jerk with my calls.
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Being indecisive about your intentions doesn't make you a jerk - just remember if they ask you to do something you cannot do, like a touch'n'go, respond politely, "Unable, not authorized for touch and gos, full stop and taxi back required please." :)
 
It sounds as if some of the time the problem wasn't that the controller didn't give you clear instructions, but that you couldn't remember what they were. That's a problem you can try to work on and improve your performance - perhaps writing the instruction down?

That said, anytime there's confusion or doubt, regardless of who's "at fault" for it, a good airman will act to eliminate it. So by that standard you're doing the "right" thing.
 
TMetzinger said:
It sounds as if some of the time the problem wasn't that the controller didn't give you clear instructions, but that you couldn't remember what they were. That's a problem you can try to work on and improve your performance - perhaps writing the instruction down?

That said, anytime there's confusion or doubt, regardless of who's "at fault" for it, a good airman will act to eliminate it. So by that standard you're doing the "right" thing.
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To Tim's point: local tower last week was using "non-typical" ground procedures (different routings and such) due to some taxiway maintenance work. They had me run up near one runway and then wanted to assign me a different runway (more taxi). I indicated I could accept the close runway (based on plane performance), and their response was to "make the request", which I did, and takeoff clearance was immediately granted.

PIC means just that: make a decision as to what you want, make the specific request, and have a "plan B" if ATC can't grant your request.

P.S. - the student pilot behind me didn't take the hint, and he was sent on a roughly 2-mile taxi for takeoff.
 
Always be sure of what tower wants you to do - and always be sure of what YOU want to do.

When I was training there was a tower controller that I think intentionally would be vague when students were flying. I can't swear to it, but I think he was doing it on purpose just to see how the student pilots would react - it never led to anything bad happening, I just think it was his own personal little experiment.

One night, at a nearby towered airport my CFI was working me heavily on x-wind touch and goes. It was late, but tower was still open, and we were the only ones in the pattern - for an hour, over and over, asking for and getting landing clearances and pattern directions. It would have been simpler if the tower was closed because of the established traffic patterns (right traffic in this case). Then another plane came in, landed on the wrong rwy, and broke the monotony.
 
Matthew said:
Then another plane came in, landed on the wrong rwy, and broke the monotony.
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That's another point: even with ATC and a tower, maintain situational awareness. At one Class D airport, I was cleared for landing on 32 - when I was on short final, tower cleared a student for takeoff on 14. I let him know very quickly, and the TO clearance was rescinded.
 
I figured I was in the right by clarifying my clearances. I just don't want to irritate the controllers by clogging up the frequency. But, I've never had issues with them. I know when the controller is irritated because he usually lets out this big sigh before giving an instruction. I've never gotten the sigh.

I think I was just weirded out that they would occasionally give an instruction for left traffic, and then other times they wouldn't. I wasn't sure if they were assuming that I know to continue left traffic or not.

Nevertheless, I realize now that I need to hone in a bit on my instruction following. Generally, I'm good on it. This time I think I was just a bit burnt out after work.
 
I knew I should have patented my 'is this guy a Jerk' series.
 
Hey - If you ever irritate a controller, you'll know!

I have had a controller remind me, as a solo student, that it wasn't necessary to stop after I cleared the rwy and ask for taxi clearance when he had already said "clear to land 36, taxi back".
 
During some tactical training years ago, an instructor recounted an experience he had observing an individual in a grocery store. The individual being observed was a rough-and-tough operator, known for making the hard decisions, known for "taking it to the mat," known for not giving up. As the instructor observed, the individual approached the front of the line, where the girl at the Cash register said "Sir, paper or plastic."

The individual was tired. He looked a little lost, and too exhausted to make a decision, he simply mumbled, "I dunno. Surprise me."

The instructor was intrigued that a man who regularly made life-or-death decisions couldn't focus enough to decide if he wanted a paper or plastic bag.

The point of the discussion was decisiveness. Make a call. If it's the wrong call, deal with it, but make the call. In the airplane, that's our duty as pilot in command (your job description when solo, right now).

If you prefer left patterns, be assertive, and say "left." If assigned a right pattern, be flexible, and go with that.

You're not wrong to clarify; if you don't remember which you've been assigned or accepted, it's perfectly okay to ask. It's a safe trait: always be ready to verify, never assume.
 
Being vexed at ATC instructions does not make you a jerk. Letting them know they are confusing you is also OK. But you have to pay attention and think ahead of them. "Expect the unexpected" is a good motto for pilots, especially when being handled by a tower. :D
 
Its just a function of situational awareness. As you get more experienced you stop looking through straws and can start to see more and more until one day the big picture is revealed.

Don't worry about it, it'll come.
 
Captain said:
Its just a function of situational awareness. As you get more experienced you stop looking through straws and can start to see more and more until one day the big picture is revealed.
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Of course, some days that same situational awareness can elusively slip from one's grasp -- somehow resulting in the initiation of a thread on Backcountrypilot.org where one feverishly debates with the Supercub pilots the legality of taking the reverse high speed at a busy towered airport. :wink2: :wink2: :D

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7724
 
sometimes that happens too.
 
Matthew said:
Hey - If you ever irritate a controller, you'll know!

I have had a controller remind me, as a solo student, that it wasn't necessary to stop after I cleared the rwy and ask for taxi clearance when he had already said "clear to land 36, taxi back".
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Yeah, I got a dressing down from a controller after I made my worst landing ever in the Luscombe and, still embarrassed and nervous, made a bad ground call.
 
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