Airventure Arrival Practice

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kyleb

Final Approach
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Drake the Outlaw
Does anyone else practice slow flight for extended periods in anticipation of the Fisk arrival? I went out and tortured the RV-10 for about 20 minutes today following a local road... I figure my "abort" speed is about 72 knots on the 90 knot approach...

Oh, and descending turns to land from a right downwind. Gotta do a couple of those too. Problem is... if there's anyone else anywhere near the field, they are really bothered when you announce a RIGHT downwind and base.

What else do y'all do in the lead-up to Airventure? I've already started weighing stuff... Looks like I'm gonna have 3 full seats on the way there and pick up a 4th to bring home. Even with the RV-10's load lifting capabilities, that leads to compromises.
 
kyleb said:
Does anyone else practice slow flight for extended periods in anticipation of the Fisk arrival? I went out and tortured the RV-10 for about 20 minutes today following a local road... I figure my "abort" speed is about 72 knots on the 90 knot approach...

Oh, and descending turns to land from a right downwind. Gotta do a couple of those too. Problem is... if there's anyone else anywhere near the field, they are really bothered when you announce a RIGHT downwind and base.

What else do y'all do in the lead-up to Airventure? I've already started weighing stuff... Looks like I'm gonna have 3 full seats on the way there and pick up a 4th to bring home. Even with the RV-10's load lifting capabilities, that leads to compromises.
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I bet airport management is real pizzed about the big dot that you painted on the runway. :)
 
The first thing to practice is reading and understanding the NOTAM. 90% of the problems are people who can't do that.
Practice holding 1000 AGL at 90 knots. The other 10% of the problems are people who fly too fast/slow on the transition.
Practice adapting your speed/etc... to deal with those not following the procedure correctly.

As for landing, practice holding your speed at 90 for as long as possible but be prepared for some idiot who slows down to 50 ahead of you.
Practice keeping your plane in the air 2000' down the runway and the planting it as this is a frequent request (land on the yellow dot).
 
kyleb said:
Does anyone else practice slow flight for extended periods in anticipation of the Fisk arrival? I went out and tortured the RV-10 for about 20 minutes today following a local road... I figure my "abort" speed is about 72 knots on the 90 knot approach...

Oh, and descending turns to land from a right downwind. Gotta do a couple of those too. Problem is... if there's anyone else anywhere near the field, they are really bothered when you announce a RIGHT downwind and base.

What else do y'all do in the lead-up to Airventure? I've already started weighing stuff... Looks like I'm gonna have 3 full seats on the way there and pick up a 4th to bring home. Even with the RV-10's load lifting capabilities, that leads to compromises.
Click to expand...
If you are being serious, your lack of experience with right traffic is easily solvable without having to violate the rules. Right Traffic nontowered. Most any towered can accommodate.
 
First time I went out there I flew at 90 knots and wrote down my power settings with flaps up and approach flaps, cowl flaps open. Then I did a few short approaches. I was fairly new to the airplane at that point, so I wanted to get a feel for that. Non issue.
 
Look and see, communicate when uncertain, and don’t worry about the odd guys who are grumpy. They are just grumpy after all.

Go and have fun, it isn’t that difficult to fly in, listen to the ATIS which gives you the starting point (they cut in early depending on traffic so you likely don’t need to fly the entire approach), go to the point and ATC will give you traffic to follow. If you fly by GPS easy to mess up, you want to look and avoid traffic.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are being serious, your lack of experience with right traffic is easily solvable without having to violate the rules. Right Traffic nontowered. Most any towered can accommodate.
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Hmm, I didn't say I had a lack of experience or that rules were an issue. I mentioned that people around the airport are bothered when you announce you're flying right traffic (since they are typically flying left traffic.)
 
kyleb said:
Hmm, I didn't say I had a lack of experience or that rules were an issue. I mentioned that people around the airport are bothered when you announce you're flying right traffic (since they are typically flying left traffic.)
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Just sayin’ if the airport is nontowered and left traffic, I can understand why they are bothered by a violation of the rules.
 
kyleb said:
Oh, and descending turns to land from a right downwind. Gotta do a couple of those too. Problem is... if there's anyone else anywhere near the field, they are really bothered when you announce a RIGHT downwind and base.
Click to expand...
Maybe don't break the law?
 
Read and fully understand the notam,then just do what’s asked of you.
 
I do a work up in the weeks prior to Osh. I practice following a track at 90KTS and 1000 AGL, along with tight right traffic spot landings descending from just past midfield downwind. I have a nearby uncontrolled field 38NM away that has light traffic that’s my go to for the pattern work. For better or worse I also add “practicing for Oshkosh” to my downwind announcements. The few times there has been traffic with me in the pattern the only questions and/or comments I’ve gotten is about the trip to Osh itself. For those who have never flown into Osh you simply have no idea what the arrival can be like terminating in a pattern that is completely abnormal and contrary to everything we’re taught. It’s more involved than simply flying a right pattern.
 
My name is kyle, rules don't apply to me!

Class G airspace.​


(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and
 
EdFred said:
My name is kyle, rules don't apply to me!

Class G airspace.​


(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and
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My reality, if not yours, is that if I'm at the local field at say 6:30 AM on a Tuesday and there's no traffic, I may practice what I think makes me a better pilot. Maybe the impossible turn, short field takeoffs, go-arounds or an aborted takeoff. Even a true deadstick landing. Maybe (crazy talk, I know) a tight base to final from a right downwind. I think you become a better pilot by doing different things. I don't see it as anti-authority or anti-rule. I see it as practice under controlled conditions.

YMMV.

For what it is worth, my respect for the tight righthand pattern landing on 27 at Oshkosh comes from watching a guy drop a wing twice (and catch the stall twice) landing a few years ago. I thought the guy was dead...twice... in about 20 seconds.
 
You can do all those things within the regulations. Find a field with right traffic. They exist. But that would require not being soooooo self important.
 
kyleb said:
My reality, if not yours, is that if I'm at the local field at say 6:30 AM on a Tuesday and there's no traffic,
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Gotcha. It’s about being caught rather than following the rules. Kinda like going through red lights on a quiet street at 3 am.

Although…your comment about others getting upset suggests you are not alone, even at 6:30 am.

kyleb said:
For what it is worth, my respect for the tight righthand pattern landing on 27 at Oshkosh comes from watching a guy drop a wing twice (and catch the stall twice) landing a few years ago. I thought the guy was dead...twice... in about 20 seconds
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Sorry, but that brings me back to my earlier “lack of experience” comment. ”That guy” is either completely thrown off due to lack of experience or a pretty bad pilot to begin with. Other than the confusion caused by being asked to do something you have no experience doing, there is zero difference between left traffic and right.
 
EdFred said:
My name is kyle, rules don't apply to me!

Class G airspace.​


(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and
Click to expand...
We are going through an issue at my home field regarding 'against the grain' pattern work. As Kyle mentioned...at a time with no traffic in the area, I have no issue with someone coming in via right traffic at our left traffic field. However, a flight school that was based at a nearby Delta, which uses mostly right traffic, started doing right traffic patterns with active left traffic. They couldn't understand what the problem was. After a sit down with all concerned parties they still are incredulous as to why we are up in arms. We suggested that perhaps the 'fizzdo' might want be present to discuss it at another meeting. I think that has resolved the issue. ;)
 
ateamer said:
I’ve seen Oshkosh described as some of the arrivals being guys who fly once a year picking the world’s busiest airport to do it.
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Yep—I’ve seen and heard some pretty clueless pilots at Osh. It’s one of the reasons I’ve ditched the VFR arrival and now fly in IFR to avoid 99% of the jackassery.
 
tsts4 said:
Yep—I’ve seen and heard some pretty clueless pilots at Osh. It’s one of the reasons I’ve ditched the VFR arrival and now fly in IFR to avoid 99% of the jackassery.
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That’s the only way I’d fly in there. But then again, I’d have go to have the option and I haven’t been convinced to go yet. Might make in there in a couple years, but would likely just airline up and stay in a hotel somewhere else, because there’s only a couple of specific things I’m interested in at the show.
 
TCABM said:
That’s the only way I’d fly in there. But then again, I’d have go to have the option and I haven’t been convinced to go yet. Might make in there in a couple years, but would likely just airline up and stay in a hotel somewhere else, because there’s only a couple of specific things I’m interested in at the show.
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Ya gotta come at least once regardless of how you get there. First round is on me if you need just that extra bit of incentive :rofl:
 
One thing that throws people off a bit is when the controller last minute changes your dot. Adding power, flying low to the ground and many stop watching airspeed, then overshoot/float a lot.

Many also fret too much about landing perfectly on their dot. Ummm, it's more of a ballpark, don't force it. That being said, you should be proficient enough to spot land within reason.

Now if one of these days the aviation Gods will give me 36R I would be thankful (easiest taxi to HBC). Never ever got anything else other than 27. haha
 
Clip4 said:
In my view, AirVenture is no place for low time and un-proficient pilots. Yet the the event draws them like bees to the hive.
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kyleb said:
Been there at 100 hours. Pay attention, follow the NOTAM, and fly the airplane. Ain’t a Herculean task.
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Yep. I had maybe 100 the first time I flew in. Maybe a hair less, I’d have to check. I think one valuable exercise would be to watch some sci-fi or Hallmark channel movies so you are able to suspend disbelief as needed. I had to blink a couple times when I saw people that I knew damn well were far more experienced pilots than I and yet seemed unable to hold altitude or speed plus or minus 200’ and 20 knots, or just LISTEN without transmitting. And yeah, the guy in front of me whose final was 2 miles out over the lake.

Improvise, adapt, overcome… follow directions… all worth it when you hear the tower guy say, “Nice landing yellow RV, welcome to Oshkosh!”
 
Total time has nothing to do with it. I’ve been terrified by guys who have clearly not attempted 90 knots since the last time they flew over Fisk, and then gotten on the ground to find they had many more hours than I’ll ever have.
 
Jereme Carne said:
Now if one of these days the aviation Gods will give me 36R I would be thankful (easiest taxi to HBC). Never ever got anything else other than 27. haha
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I always camp in Vintage. I follow the rules and don't reply unless I'm asked a question.

Last year I was the 3rd person to arrive at Fisk at 7AM and there nobody behind me. I was told me to follow the railroad tracks up to 27. I asked if I could have 36L since I was camping in Vintage and got an immediate reply of "yes, turn right and follow Fisk Avenue and welcome to Oshkosh!" Sure makes for a lot shorter taxi!
 
The first year my wife went to Oshkosh after she got her license she got up to VPZ and told me to switch seats with her. The approach didn't scare her but she didn't want to land in front of the crowd. The next year we had just got the Navion and she flew all the way up including the landing (I was having too much fun in the right seat playing with a portable GPS that a friend loaned us, this was 1995 or so and they were still novelties). I bought serial #9 of the Garmin 195 at the show and Margy got to fly out the way home (her strategy is to just keep me playing with the avionics and she can fly).
 
Slow flight? I start in formation on a stranger, wide open throttle and get passed a coupla times…

Did come in a yellow RV8 once… heard “yellow RV take a lap around the lake”. Was half way done with that before I realized there were THREE of us yellow RVs that turned…

I think it’s fun. Head on a swivel, be conservative, remember it’s FUN.
 
kyleb said:
Does anyone else practice slow flight for extended periods in anticipation of the Fisk arrival? I went out and tortured the RV-10 for about 20 minutes today following a local road... I figure my "abort" speed is about 72 knots on the 90 knot approach...

Oh, and descending turns to land from a right downwind. Gotta do a couple of those too. Problem is... if there's anyone else anywhere near the field, they are really bothered when you announce a RIGHT downwind and base.

What else do y'all do in the lead-up to Airventure? I've already started weighing stuff... Looks like I'm gonna have 3 full seats on the way there and pick up a 4th to bring home. Even with the RV-10's load lifting capabilities, that leads to compromises.
Click to expand...

You have the option of flying at 2300 feet and 135 knots all the way to Fisk.
 
Datadriver said:
You have the option of flying at 2300 feet and 135 knots all the way to Fisk.
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"if needed for safety of flight. Expect descent at or after FISK."

If you listen to the webinar and read the guidance they really prefer everyone at 90kts/1800ft if at all able.
 
kyleb said:
Been there at 100 hours. Pay attention, follow the NOTAM, and fly the airplane. Ain’t a Herculean task.
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I guess some people need more reading than a NOTAM.

A total of four people were killed and two others were injured during two different aircraft incidents during EAA's AirVenture in 2023.


EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said that on Saturday the pilot of a Bonanza landed on the opposite runway to which he or she was cleared. According to people who heard the resulting mayhem on the radio, controllers frantically ordered the pilots of aircraft on final for the correct runway to go around and sent those on their way to the runway to hold areas.

The EAA does not release the ground incidents where aircraft are damaged, but if you walk around the event the day after it is over the evidence remains.
 
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