Airspace Queston TME (Houston)

Warlock

Warlock

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Warlock
Flying through Houston Area I notice something I had not come across and this is in my own backyard...TME...has a Tower but not class D...where does the airspace around it start and end...I guess I have never come across this and don't know of another example...graphics in the link...got to be some rules...

https://skyvector.com/?ll=29.805027778,-95.897888889&chart=111&zoom=3
 
Hmmm, I flew in there about a month ago and didnt notice that little tidbit. I was on FF tho.
 
Looks like sfc to 2000 ft. This is really interesting
http://download.aopa.org/articlefiles/140929notam.pdf

found more from txtopaviation.com
"For those of you who frequent the Houston area, make sure to check your NOTAMs. The Houston Executive Airport (KTME) in Katy recently opened a control tower. The Houston Executive tower information won’t show up on the sectional chart till the new chart comes out in the spring. The only way to get the information about the tower and the airspace will be via NOTAMs or when the new Airport/Facilities Directory comes out on November 3rd. The tower opened October 1st.

According to AOPA, the airspace will remain Class G around the airport, even though there is a control tower in place. Since the Houston Executive tower is there, it will be mandatory to contact the tower when passing through the airspace. KTME’s airspace stretches up to 2,000 feet MSL and goes out to a 4 sm radius around the airport. It is a VFR Only tower, so the controllers do not have radar.

The tower is open from 6am-10pm, local time, 7 days a week."
 
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Just like Lake City, FL. Hagler AAF another one.
 
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Warlock said:
Flying through Houston Area I notice something I had not come across and this is in my own backyard...TME...has a Tower but not class D...where does the airspace around it start and end...I guess I have never come across this and don't know of another example...graphics in the link...got to be some rules...
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Class E airspace in the vicinity of Houston Executive Airport begins at 700' AGL, below that the airspace is Class G. While very few remain there are some airports with permanent control towers but without a surface area of controlled airspace. The rules are found in FAR 91.126 Operating in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Looks like sfc to 2000 ft. This is really interesting
http://download.aopa.org/articlefiles/140929notam.pdf

found more from txtopaviation.com
"For those of you who frequent the Houston area, make sure to check your NOTAMs. The Houston Executive Airport (KTME) in Katy recently opened a control tower. The Houston Executive tower information won’t show up on the sectional chart till the new chart comes out in the spring. The only way to get the information about the tower and the airspace will be via NOTAMs or when the new Airport/Facilities Directory comes out on November 3rd. The tower opened October 1st.

According to AOPA, the airspace will remain Class G around the airport, even though there is a control tower in place. Since the Houston Executive tower is there, it will be mandatory to contact the tower when passing through the airspace. KTME’s airspace stretches up to 2,000 feet MSL and goes out to a 4 sm radius around the airport. It is a VFR Only tower, so the controllers do not have radar.

The tower is open from 6am-10pm, local time, 7 days a week."
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A VFR control tower is another term for a non-approach control tower. That just means another facility has responsibility for IFR operations, Houston approach in this case. The waiver eliminates the requirement to contact the tower for some operations that would otherwise have to in accordance with FAR 91.126(d).
 
I guess never seen an example of Towered Class G...or seen it in any material in training seems like it would be simple to draw some lines as its been around for a couple of years...and no plans to in the future from a phone call from a CFI that flies in there quite often that I just talked to.... :mad2:
 
Warlock said:
I guess never seen an example of Towered Class G...or seen it in any material in training seems like it would be simple to draw some lines as its been around for a couple of years...and no plans to in the future from a phone call from a CFI that flies in there quite often that I just talked to.... :mad2:
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Why the head beating?

It has the physical requirements for a surface area, weather reporting and communications down to the runway. My guess is a perception that a surface area would have an adverse effect on operations there.
 
35 years of Aviation...I thought I understood Airspace...nothing more
 
This happened with KAEG when they got a tower. It took like 3 sectional cycles before they finally plotted the class D airspace. And when they did, they forgot to include the box that indicates how high it goes. Took another few years before they fixed that.

The FAA at work.
 
TME is currently a golf tower with a golf communications area. It's 4 miles wide with a pac man shaped cut out for sport flyers field to the north west, surface to 2000'. It'll likely be a Delta soon, they're pressing for it. There's an FAA publication with the deviation from standard dimensions on it.
 
SkyHog said:
This happened with KAEG when they got a tower. It took like 3 sectional cycles before they finally plotted the class D airspace. And when they did, they forgot to include the box that indicates how high it goes. Took another few years before they fixed that.

The FAA at work.
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There's no Delta around executive yet, though. It's a golf communications area.
 
And a reference for those who have never seen one and want to see the rules: 91.126(d)
 
SkyHog said:
This happened with KAEG when they got a tower. It took like 3 sectional cycles before they finally plotted the class D airspace. And when they did, they forgot to include the box that indicates how high it goes. Took another few years before they fixed that.



The FAA at work.
Click to expand...


That's got to be the deadest airport I've ever seen a tower at. Every time I've been there.
 
denverpilot said:
That's got to be the deadest airport I've ever seen a tower at. Every time I've been there.
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Yep. 2 things killed it:

1. Bode aviation buying out West Mesa Aviation and jacking up prices to KABQ Levels
2. The tower.

Before each, it was not uncommon to have 6 or 8 in the pattern for 22, with 2 more practicing approaches on the ILS, and a few in the pattern for 17.

That was where I got my certificate.
 
SkyHog said:
Yep. 2 things killed it:



1. Bode aviation buying out West Mesa Aviation and jacking up prices to KABQ Levels

2. The tower.



Before each, it was not uncommon to have 6 or 8 in the pattern for 22, with 2 more practicing approaches on the ILS, and a few in the pattern for 17.



That was where I got my certificate.
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During the stop there for the return flight bringing the monkey to Denver, it was me and one lone ultralight. I let them fuel it instead of doing the self-serve because it was cold and I'm a wimp. LOL.

People are always nice there, I just never see any traffic.

The tower guy was surly and snapped at me because I called him late entering the Delta, after ABQ Approach held on to me, because AEG was launching someone else directly at me -- and he didn't want us to tangle up.

AEG tower guy harrumphed his "approval" at my explanation that Approach had asked me to stay on their frequency for a little longer to vector the outbound around me.

I guess they weren't talking on the landline. ;)
 
TME tower was done back in the summer. I flew in there in the fall to pick up someone. The tower guy seemed like he was training and there was someone giving secondary instructions in the back ground so you really did not know which instruction to follow. There were three planes inbound. The first controller was overwhelmed. There was a pretty gusty crosswind. So maybe some touch and go. I decided to lighten his workload and did a 360 out to the west still 7 miles out. That seemed to help. Still got a report mid field, then report base in rapid succession. So I pointed to the tower and reported mid field. I always tended to forget it was there when doing primary training. It is a nice airport with nice people. They have a Ferrari race car in the FBO. The Austin Executive (by the same people) have a Concord Jet Engine
 
yetti said:
TME tower was done back in the summer. I flew in there in the fall to pick up someone. The tower guy seemed like he was training and there was someone giving secondary instructions in the back ground so you really did not know which instruction to follow. There were three planes inbound. The first controller was overwhelmed. There was a pretty gusty crosswind. So maybe some touch and go. I decided to lighten his workload and did a 360 out to the west still 7 miles out. That seemed to help. Still got a report mid field, then report base in rapid succession. So I pointed to the tower and reported mid field. I always tended to forget it was there when doing primary training. It is a nice airport with nice people. They have a Ferrari race car in the FBO. The Austin Executive (by the same people) have a Concord Jet Engine
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It was opened last winter. The tower guys there are always super helpful, though. I went over there shortly after it opened and have been several times (including a wx divert when a thunderstorm was sitting right on top of IWS) and the tower has always been incredibly helpful and easy to work with.
 
mkosmo said:
TME is currently a golf tower with a golf communications area. It's 4 miles wide with a pac man shaped cut out for sport flyers field to the north west, surface to 2000'. It'll likely be a Delta soon, they're pressing for it. There's an FAA publication with the deviation from standard dimensions on it.
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It is important to note it doesn't include 2000' though. Here is an article that AOPA did when it first happened. http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/September/29/Houston-Executive-gets-new-tower

Expect the class D to happen sooner or later. They really want to attract small jet traffic and some of that traffic is restricted to airports that have a control tower and restricted airspace.

I get over it all the time and rarely talk to the controllers but when I do they've always been really nice and helpful. The cutout for sport flyers is a little confusing, but the controllers are understanding about it I've heard.
 
retailguy said:
It is important to note it doesn't include 2000' though. Here is an article that AOPA did when it first happened. http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/September/29/Houston-Executive-gets-new-tower

Expect the class D to happen sooner or later. They really want to attract small jet traffic and some of that traffic is restricted to airports that have a control tower and restricted airspace.

I get over it all the time and rarely talk to the controllers but when I do they've always been really nice and helpful. The cutout for sport flyers is a little confusing, but the controllers are understanding about it I've heard.
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Very true. I just cross over top at 2.5 to be sure unless cleared in to the bravo. When coming back, I descend in to West Houston at the S turn in i10 since it marks just outside their airspace.
 
I have been flying out of TME for a few months now.
Great field, helpful tower, good people all around.
Plenty of medium jets, TP and cabin class piston twins in and out all day.
Apparently Class D is very likely over next 12 months.
Radar not on the horizon however, due to cost.
 
We have PCA (Picacho Arng Heliport) on the Phoenix sectional between Phoenix and Tucson. My instructor told me the airspace there was getting busted so much that the FAA put a note on the sectional to remind people to, "CTC PCA TWR WITHIN 4NM BLO 2500 FT AGL".
 
I've flown in there a bunch to get/drop off my Mom who lives in Katy. It's towered but as mentioned no radar which is why I figured they didn't declare it Delta...it's also not very busy. I've flown in at least a half dozen times now and I can only remember once when there was anyone else even talking to the controller. So, I'd imagine when they get a little busier it'll come as well...nice field and FBO though for sure.
 
kenjr said:
I've flown in there a bunch to get/drop off my Mom who lives in Katy. It's towered but as mentioned no radar which is why I figured they didn't declare it Delta...it's also not very busy. I've flown in at least a half dozen times now and I can only remember once when there was anyone else even talking to the controller. So, I'd imagine when they get a little busier it'll come as well...nice field and FBO though for sure.
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Radar is not a requirement for Class D airspace.
 
flyin'gator said:
I have been flying out of TME for a few months now.
Great field, helpful tower, good people all around.
Plenty of medium jets, TP and cabin class piston twins in and out all day.
Apparently Class D is very likely over next 12 months.
Radar not on the horizon however, due to cost.
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You'd think by now the FAA could get provide an approach radar feed to a COTS computer or something cheap. Houston approach can see damn near to the ground anyways.
 
Maybe the following has been mentioned, but here it is anyway. The following is from AIM 4-3-2. Airports with an Operating Control Tower:

Not all airports with an operating control tower will have Class D airspace. These airports do not have weather reporting which is a requirement for surface based controlled airspace, previously known as a control zone. The controlled airspace over these airports will normally begin at 700 feet or 1,200 feet above ground level and can be determined from the visual aeronautical charts. Pilots are expected to use good operating practices and communicate with the control tower as described in this section.
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And as I understand it, it can't be just "any" weather reporting, it has to be "federally certificated" weather reporting.
 
Maxed-out said:
And as I understand it, it can't be just "any" weather reporting, it has to be "federally certificated" weather reporting.
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This harkens back to the old Control Zone days. In order to get a control zone (now called surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport), you had to have an approach and a weather observer.

Getting an approved one is easy. If you've got a tower, it's easy to make it a responsibility of the controller. If you had an airline there, their employees could also be designated. These days, almost all of the approved automated stuff (AWOS, etc....) is also sufficient.

The key thing is that the FAA can stick control towers anywhere they want. All they need is a building and some controllers. To create a class D airspace takes a rulemaking procedure.
 
So if I am goose hunting on the Katy Prairie and I want to launch my drone to find a downed goose to not run afoul of the federal regulations of wasting game animals do FAA regulations or Department of Interior regulations apply?
 
Maxed-out said:
Maybe the following has been mentioned, but here it is anyway. The following is from AIM 4-3-2. Airports with an Operating Control Tower:



And as I understand it, it can't be just "any" weather reporting, it has to be "federally certificated" weather reporting.
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According to the AFD it has AWOS-3 though, so why not class D?
 
Maxed-out said:
Maybe the following has been mentioned, but here it is anyway. The following is from AIM 4-3-2. Airports with an Operating Control Tower:
Not all airports with an operating control tower will have Class D airspace. These airports do not have weather reporting which is a requirement for surface based controlled airspace, previously known as a control zone. The controlled airspace over these airports will normally begin at 700 feet or 1,200 feet above ground level and can be determined from the visual aeronautical charts. Pilots are expected to use good operating practices and communicate with the control tower as described in this section.
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And as I understand it, it can't be just "any" weather reporting, it has to be "federally certificated" weather reporting.
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That's not correct. KTME has weather reporting, as does every towered airport without a surface area that I'm aware of. And it's "federally certificated" weather reporting too, the A/FD wouldn't be showing it if it wasn't.
 
Van Johnston said:
According to the AFD it has AWOS-3 though, so why not class D?
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A surface area requires:

1.) Communications capability with aircraft must exist down to the runway surface of the primary airport. This communications may be either direct from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the surface area or by rapid relay through other communications facilities, such as FSS.
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Check that one off. Every towered airport will have communications down to the runway surface. They will also have landline communications to the facility providing IFR services.

2.) Weather observations shall be taken at the surface area's primary airport during the times the surface area is designated. The weather observation can be taken by a Federally certificated weather observer and/or by a Federally commissioned weather observing system.
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Check. KTME has an AWOS-3, if it wasn't Federally commissioned the feds wouldn't show it in the A/FD.

If those two criteria are met, then a surface area:

a. Shall be established where an FAA control tower is in operation.

b. May be designated where a non-FAA control tower is in operation.
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This one is flaky. The tower at KTME operates under the FAA Contract Tower Program. Is an FAA contract tower an FAA control tower? I could find no explicit definition. If it is then KTME should have a Class D surface area. If it isn't the following comes into play:

c. Shall be designated to accommodate instrument procedures if such action is justified and/or in the public interest. The following factors are among those that should be considered:

1. Type of procedure including decision height or minimum descent altitude.

2. The actual use to be made of the procedure, including whether it is used by a certificated air carrier or an air taxi/commuter operator providing service to the general public.

3. The operational and economic advantage offered by the procedure, including the importance and interest to the commerce and welfare of the community derived by the procedure.

4. Any other factors considered appropriate.
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So is a pilot REQUIRED to communicate with the tower or other ATC when inside the tower's jurisdiction?
 
Glad I am not the only one confused as the OP...but learned something in this thread...this would be a great oral question...if you wanted to torture a student.
 
It might take it awhile before it gets Class D status. Brother worked down the road at SGR when it was a Class G tower. First few months got violated all the time because pilots didn't know there was a tower there. Now, you got a nice big tower with a D around it. Not sure if it stayed non federal contract or not.
 
roncachamp said:
That's not correct. KTME has weather reporting, as does every towered airport without a surface area that I'm aware of. And it's "federally certificated" weather reporting too, the A/FD wouldn't be showing it if it wasn't.
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It appears not all AWOS are created equal.

Reference the following:

FAA Order JO 7400.2J - Procedures for Handling Airspace Matters
Paragraph 17-2-10 WEATHER OBSERVATIONS AND REPORTING (for Class D airspace)

a. Weather observations must be taken at the primary airport during the times and dates the Class D airspace is active. A federally certified weather observer or a federally commissioned automated weather observing system (this includes all FAA and NWS approved and certified weather reporting systems) can take the weather observation.”
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and then reference this:

From: FAA Order 8260.19F
SUBJ: Flight Procedures and Airspace

This order provides guidance to all FAA personnel for the administration and accomplishment of the FAA Flight Procedures and Airspace Program.

para 8-6-6(f)

Non-Federal AWOS, i.e., not sponsored by the FAA, are classified into seven types:

(a) AWOS-A. Reports altimeter setting only.
(b) AWOS-1. Reports altimeter setting, wind, temperature, dewpoint, and density altitude.
(c) AWOS-2. Reports the same information as AWOS-1 plus visibility.
(d) AWOS-3. Reports the same information as AWOS-2 plus cloud/ceiling data and precipitation accumulation.
(e) AWOS-3P. Reports the same as AWOS-3 System, plus precipitation type/intensity (present weather).
(f) AWOS-3PT. Reports the same as AWOS-3P System, plus thunderstorm/lightning reporting capability.
(g) AWOS-3T. Reports the same as AWOS-3 System, plus thunderstorm/lightning reporting capability.
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The A/FD indicates HOUSTON EXECUTIVE (TME)(KTME) under WEATHER DATA SOURCES is AWOS–3.

The above statements seem to indicate that the AWOS-3 at TME can't substitute for a federally commissioned AWOS for the purposes of establishing Class D airspace.

What do you think?
 
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