Airplane Recommendations -New Pilot GA

DocSoCal

DocSoCal

Filing Flight Plan
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Jul 27, 2020
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DocSoCal
I’m new to aviation and let me start off by saying its amazing to finally be able to pursue the aviation lifestyle

Mission:

Fly SAFELY with my family (wife & 3 kids 8,10,12) from SoCal to St. George, UT, Cedar City, UT, Lake Havasu and Santa Barbara etc year around including winter. Were young ish () but my wife has had spine and hip fusions so she can’t take the 5-8 hour drives anymore.

Safety is 1st priority, being able to fly year around is key. Reliability is key. No maintanance pigs. I am also 6ft 220, wide shoulders. Pressurized or non? Head for the kids bladder?

twin pistons? Single?
Barron’s? Golden eagles? Piper?

Im currently preparing for my FAA written, I plan to train for VFR, Performance, IFR in the plane I will purchase.

300k budget Aquisition max range, less would be great lol

Thank you in advance for your advice, I am new to aviation and I am only as good as those around me.

Thank you!
 
I’d go for a Cessna 421 FIKI C model for your mission/budget. If you get serious about a Twin Cessna, highly recommend their owners group. The Twin Cessna Flyer. Great/helpful message board.
 
Radar Contact said:
I’d go for a Cessna 421 FIKI C model for your mission/budget. If you get serious about a Twin Cessna, highly recommend their owners group. The Twin Cessna Flyer. Great/helpful message board.
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Thanks!
 
You haven't done any actual lessons, in any kind of plane, yet, am I reading your post right?

If that's true, I'd recommend starting out by taking lessons in something small and simple and cheap. Something that can haul your whole family is going to be a "whole lotta plane" for a beginner. I'm sure people have done it (and can give you advice about how). But it seems nuts to me. Rent a single-engine trainer, and learn how it works and how to to land it. Basics first. The more you fly, the more you'll get learn about all kinds of things, and learn all the questions about flying that you don't know to even ask yet!
 
kath said:
You haven't done any actual lessons, in any kind of plane, yet, am I reading your post right?

If that's true, I'd recommend starting out by taking lessons in something small and simple and cheap. Something that can haul your whole family is going to be a "whole lotta plane" for a beginner. I'm sure people have done it (and can give you advice about how). But it seems nuts to me. Rent a single-engine trainer, and learn how it works and how to to land it. Basics first. The more you fly, the more you'll get learn about all kinds of things, and learn all the questions about flying that you don't know to even ask yet!
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Correct no actual lessons yet. My thoughts were if I go twin, insurance companies want a specific amount of hours etc.. this way I would nock our several birds with a stone, I’m sure it will take more time this way but was also thinking it would be nice to have 60-100 hours in my own plane under instruction VS training in a plane I’ll never fly again... I know I’m new
To aviation so I’ open to experience recommendations on this idea ....
 
I'd say, at a bare minimum, rent a trainer until you solo. Learning to land is rough on a plane, and I'd rather beat up a rental, instead of my plane. Also, when (not if) your rental is down for maintenance, you can continue in another plane of the same type and model. And, when your plane is down for maintenance, you probably can't rent the same type and model of plane. Finally, owning a plane is a learning experience, as is learning to fly. Ideally, you only have one learning experience at a time.

In summary, rent for a while to see if this learning to fly thing is really for you. I'm not sure of the actual statistics, but well over half of all beginning students never get their PPL.
 
Crashnburn said:
I'd say, at a bare minimum, rent a trainer until you solo. Learning to land is rough on a plane, and I'd rather beat up a rental, instead of my plane. Also, when (not if) your rental is down for maintenance, you can continue in another plane of the same type and model. And, when your plane is down for maintenance, you probably can't rent the same type and model of plane. Finally, owning a plane is a learning experience, as is learning to fly. Ideally, you only have one learning experience at a time.

In summary, rent for a while to see if this learning to fly thing is really for you. I'm not sure of the actual statistics, but well over half of all beginning students never get their PPL.
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Solid points
 
You don't want to learn in a twin....a high performance single is enough of a handful for a low time pilot.

A second engine is nice to have, but it's an added expense, as are pressurized cabins and turbos. I would get your PPL/IR finished and transition to an A36 or PA-32, then a twin down the road. This A36 would be perfect imo.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...BONANZA+36&listing_id=2383424&s-type=aircraft

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...TOGA+II+HP&listing_id=2383405&s-type=aircraft

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...+CHIEFTAIN&listing_id=2380606&s-type=aircraft
 
Welcome. In my opinion you're going about it backwards. Focus on getting your PPL first. Once you have the rating in hand, then you can start sampling rental aircraft, working on additional ratings, etc., and figure out what best fits your needs. A couple of your like-to-haves are immediate non-starters between your budget, experience, and intent to train in the aircraft.
 
Twin engine airplanes can add an extreme level of safety. They can also add an extreme level of danger if handled incorrectly. And I’m not just talking about engine failure (which is a whole new world compared to a single).
Your approach speeds will be nearly double as compared to a light single, which can be a challenge for a new guy. Although doable, that may be a bit much for some new aviators.

I would start with basic and then progress.
 
ktup-flyer said:
You don't want to learn in a twin....a high performance single is enough of a handful for a low time pilot.

A second engine is nice to have, but it's an added expense, as are pressurized cabins and turbos. I would get your PPL/IR finished and transition to an A36 or PA-32, then a twin down the road. This A36 would be perfect imo.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...BONANZA+36&listing_id=2383424&s-type=aircraft

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...TOGA+II+HP&listing_id=2383405&s-type=aircraft

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...+CHIEFTAIN&listing_id=2380606&s-type=aircraft
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Thanks
 
Kritchlow said:
Twin engine airplanes can add an extreme level of safety. They can also add an extreme level of danger if handled incorrectly. And I’m not just talking about engine failure (which is a whole new world compared to a single).
Your approach speeds will be nearly double as compared to a light single, which can be a challenge for a new guy. Although doable, that may be a bit much for some new aviators.

I would start with basic and then progress.
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Thx
 
Two I have not heard mentioned - Piper Malibu and Cessna 210. Both have useful loads in 1500lb range, which will be needed as children grow.

I’d be in the Malibu myself. Many mid 1980s example for sale right now. FIKI is a common option and most have great panels. Cabin seating.

The 210 turbo is a solid choice too if you prefer a high wing.
 
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bflynn said:
Two I have not heard mentioned - Piper Malibu and Cessna 210. Both have useful loads in 1500lb range, which will be needed as children grow.

I’d be in the Malibu myself. Many mid 80s example for sale right now. FIKI is a common option and most have great panels. Cabin seating.

The 210 turbo is a solid choice too if you prefer a high wing.
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I swore that translated as many in the mid 80s price wise not from the mid 80s agewise and I was like. "I'm getting my George Jefferson on!"
 
What you're talking about is not a beginner mission, or a beginner airplane. Not to try to shatter your dream, but just want to make sure that's clear from the get-go. You're talking about flying over some hostile terrain, and there will be times of year you just can't go. Really that applies to any airplane (even big jets). And as a pilot, you'll need to work up to making those flights, especially on more complex instrument days.

Now with that out of the way, you are talking at the minimum a pressurized twin. The Malibu handles ice very poorly and has a poor climb rate (which makes it worse). A 340 or 421 will do a better job. Any of these sorts of planes will be heavy on maintenance. And there's nothing wrong with a 421B vs. a C - the Bs are much better values as far as purchase price go. With 3 growing kids, the 421 will offer a better cabin and a nicer ride, but it will be more maintenance heavy.

Insurance is not going to look kindly upon a new pilot trying to go straight into a pressurized piston twin first thing, and with good reason - it's not a good idea safety wise. So you will have to build your way up. First off work on getting your private and your instrument ratings. I'd do those in a rented single engine plane - slower and simpler will ultimately get you to your end goal faster and cheaper. After that, I'd go straight to multi and I'd start with a good "trainer" type multi engine plane (310 or Baron would be fine) to get a couple or few hundred hours under your belt of twin time before making the jump to the end goal.

Really, your mission would be better served with a turboprop, however about the only one in your purchase budget that would work would be an MU-2 F model, and that is absolutely not a beginner twin.

The alternate option would be to go ahead and buy your end goal plane first and then understand that you'll be flying with an instructor for the first few hundred hours. This used to be more common than it is these days and I don't think is ultimately a good idea since you'll lack a solid foundation to build upon by going straight to the top.

My progression, for what it's worth - in the first year of flying I got my private, instrument, and started flying a Mooney. 15 months in I bought an Aztec and did my commercial multi (it sounds like for you the commercial isn't needed per se since your goal is personal flying). Flew that 1,000 hours more than anything because it was the plane I had. We moved up to a 310, put about another 1,000 hours on it, sprinkle in some Navajo time along the way, went to a 414 for a couple years and 250 hours or so, and now fly the MU-2.
 
My advice is take $250k of your $300k budget and invest it. Buy a $50k two seat tailwheel fun plane and fly the snot out of it. When its time for family trips, tap into your $250k investments, charter a king air and sit in the back. Once you've got a few years and a few hundred hours in your logbook, sell the tailwheel and buy a Cirrus or some other capable 4 seat single and do your vacations in that. By that time, the kids will be older and won't be as interested in family trips so 4 seats will be plenty.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
What you're talking about is not a beginner mission, or a beginner airplane. Not to try to shatter your dream, but just want to make sure that's clear from the get-go. You're talking about flying over some hostile terrain, and there will be times of year you just can't go. Really that applies to any airplane (even big jets). And as a pilot, you'll need to work up to making those flights, especially on more complex instrument days.

Now with that out of the way, you are talking at the minimum a pressurized twin. The Malibu handles ice very poorly and has a poor climb rate (which makes it worse). A 340 or 421 will do a better job. Any of these sorts of planes will be heavy on maintenance. And there's nothing wrong with a 421B vs. a C - the Bs are much better values as far as purchase price go. With 3 growing kids, the 421 will offer a better cabin and a nicer ride, but it will be more maintenance heavy.

Insurance is not going to look kindly upon a new pilot trying to go straight into a pressurized piston twin first thing, and with good reason - it's not a good idea safety wise. So you will have to build your way up. First off work on getting your private and your instrument ratings. I'd do those in a rented single engine plane - slower and simpler will ultimately get you to your end goal faster and cheaper. After that, I'd go straight to multi and I'd start with a good "trainer" type multi engine plane (310 or Baron would be fine) to get a couple or few hundred hours under your belt of twin time before making the jump to the end goal.

Really, your mission would be better served with a turboprop, however about the only one in your purchase budget that would work would be an MU-2 F model, and that is absolutely not a beginner twin.

The alternate option would be to go ahead and buy your end goal plane first and then understand that you'll be flying with an instructor for the first few hundred hours. This used to be more common than it is these days and I don't think is ultimately a good idea since you'll lack a solid foundation to build upon by going straight to the top.

My progression, for what it's worth - in the first year of flying I got my private, instrument, and started flying a Mooney. 15 months in I bought an Aztec and did my commercial multi (it sounds like for you the commercial isn't needed per se since your goal is personal flying). Flew that 1,000 hours more than anything because it was the plane I had. We moved up to a 310, put about another 1,000 hours on it, sprinkle in some Navajo time along the way, went to a 414 for a couple years and 250 hours or so, and now fly the MU-2.
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Solid points
 
I appreciate everyones advise and I see I may need to "crawl before I walk" into an end goal plane in order to be safe and a better pilot and I am ok with that.

With that said, I've sat in 150's, way too small for me. Any advice on a single engine with some room ? I am not getting into this to Fly solo or have me time, I ride my KTM enduro for that, this is more traveling to save time and the freedom of aviation.

Also from what I am hearing turbo prop is really whats needed for the mission end game. I have seen some Beechcraft TurboJet swaps, whats your experience with those or other single jet prop aircraft?
 
Cardinal or 182. I've instructed primary students in a Cardinal, and a 182 isn't much more of a step up from that. Neither are a 5 passenger plane, but you won't be shoehorned in with 3 or 4 unless everyone is girthy.
 
EdFred said:
Cardinal or 182. I've instructed primary students in a Cardinal, and a 182 isn't much more of a step up from that. Neither are a 5 passenger plane, but you won't be shoehorned in with 3 or 4 unless everyone is girthy.
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Whats your opinion on the Cessna 337 Skymaster?
 
DocSoCal said:
Whats your opinion on the Cessna 337 Skymaster?
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Haven't flown one. It's a twin that doesn't have the Vmc issues that other twins have. So you have the redundancy of two engines without the worry of a roll over.

Some people love 'em. Some people hate 'em.
 
If you're ok with giving up on using your first plane for family trips, then the world is your oyster. A 182 wouldn't be a bad platform to learn on and build experience before you step up to something bigger. A 182RG (if you can get insured in it as a student) would get you plenty of HP retract time which would put you in a great position for when you get the Bonanza or Baron you'll end up buying next. Which will in turn do a good job of prepping you for the TBM700 you'll eventually step up to. Only down side is none of them will do much to prepare you for the '49 Piper cub you'll end up buying after you give up on the idea of flying the family everywhere.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
If you're ok with giving up on using your first plane for family trips, then the world is your oyster. A 182 wouldn't be a bad platform to learn on and build experience before you step up to something bigger. A 182RG (if you can get insured in it as a student) would get you plenty of HP retract time which would put you in a great position for when you get the Bonanza or Baron you'll end up buying next. Which will in turn do a good job of prepping you for the TBM700 you'll eventually step up to. Only down side is none of them will do much to prepare you for the '49 Piper cub you'll end up buying after you give up on the idea of flying the family everywhere.
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Thx! Oh my myyy I just looked up a TBM700, now I am rally a mess hahaha, what a plane! bush planes look very fun as well :)
 
EdFred said:
I swore that translated as many in the mid 80s price wise not from the mid 80s agewise and I was like. "I'm getting my George Jefferson on!"
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Corrected.
 
DocSoCal said:
Whats your opinion on the Cessna 337 Skymaster?
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I dig ‘em. Took me awhile to find one I was happy buying.

If you’re just starting out, finish your training in everything the flight school has to offer, then go fly some more via rentals. The best airplane? The one you’re piloting.
 
Is the mission driving this, or is your budget?

Singles are not a bad route for you for a while and many have a decent resale value. Bonanzas have good handling, 6 seats and some have known ice capabilities. Same with 210’s.

You can even find some turbine bonanzas, as well as 210’s. Some turboprop bonanzas out there are below the $300k range...usually $400-500.

Pressurized 337s are not a killer on insurance if you go that route after some bonanza time. Personally, being short of a turbine budget, I’m rather partial to Aerostars versus Cessna or Piper product. Faster and roomier.

Great that TBMs were mentioned, but your budget was $300k...not $850k-$4M.
 
When I was just starting out I thought I needed a 210. I thought for the money and mission it was the perfect plane. I didn’t buy a plane until I had about 150 hours under my belt and a lot of cross country. I ended up with an RV9. Waaaaay different plane than a 210 and it’s perfect in so many ways for me. My point is, if I had made the decision right out of the gate I would have ended up spending way too much money and not flying as much as I do. Get your ticket first, even start on that instrument rating, and you will figure out really quick what is going to fit your needs.


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You might check out a used Van's RV-10. Roomy, great speed-to-fuel burn ratio and a wide performance envelope. Since it's a newer airframe, annuals ought to be less.
 
"Fly SAFELY with my family (wife & 3 kids 8,10,12)"...

I don't believe the OP stated their mission has changed...how do you stuff three kids and a wife in an RV10? I think he's stated interest in a 421, TBM and 337 so far...
 
Llk said:
Is the mission driving this, or is your budget?

Singles are not a bad route for you for a while and many have a decent resale value. Bonanzas have good handling, 6 seats and some have known ice capabilities. Same with 210’s.

You can even find some turbine bonanzas, as well as 210’s. Some turboprop bonanzas out there are below the $300k range...usually $400-500.

Pressurized 337s are not a killer on insurance if you go that route after some bonanza time. Personally, being short of a turbine budget, I’m rather partial to Aerostars versus Cessna or Piper product. Faster and roomier.

Great that TBMs were mentioned, but your budget was $300k...not $850k-$4M.
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Mission is primary, I could look into financing
 
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