Airplane Raffle

tlrussell

tlrussell

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jun 11, 2014
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226
Location
St. Petersburg, Fl.
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pa32-300
Looking for some input. Basically I thought I could be more effective with Angel Flight than just doing flights 3 or 4 times a month. I have the means and the time to start my own 501(c)(3) and capitalize it.

Plan is...
1. Lawyers ...ugh luckily I have two on retainer. They are on it.
2. CPA covered.
3. Legal entity..that is easy.
4. Catchy name I need help with that..
5. Pick a good prospect/airplane.
6. Market
7. Hopefully profit, help out Angel Flight
8. Repeat

So if you have any ideas what you would want in a raffle now is the time. Name? Airplane? Ticket cost? 2nd and 3rd prizes? Marketing?
Really only looking if you have something constructive to say. If you think it's a bad idea feel free to write whatever, I'll just ignore it.

Go...
 
ktup-flyer said:
King Air b200
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hmmm I think getting a donated B200 would be tough. I'm not ruling out purchasing anything. $700k plus lets say another $50k in repairs and lipstick. Then I have to fly it around for a year to fly ins and shows. Although that sound fun I now got $1MM in it. So tickets are what $250? $500? I probably could find 3000 buyers at $500. Then the winner gets a $300k tax bill. Great idea but I think it really limits my marketing.
 
Most raffles seem to be in the $50-$100 ticket range with ticket sales limited to 3-5000. Even at those prices, those with high time engines have trouble selling out. I don't know what you have in mind for marketing or in the way if connections, but I think you'd have trouble getting enough buy in at the ticket price you mentioned. Then again I may be entirely wrong.

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Those dog loving young females will want a ride too... (those poor doggies)
 
HamishTHaggis said:
Most raffles seem to be in the $50-$100 ticket range with ticket sales limited to 3-5000. Even at those prices, those with high time engines have trouble selling out. I don't know what you have in mind for marketing or in the way if connections, but I think you'd have trouble getting enough buy in at the ticket price you mentioned. Then again I may be entirely wrong.

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exactly my thoughts Hamish, I know you are a recent winner. What about the process would you have changed? My first thought is to find a cool C177 with a low time engine and keep the tickets around $100.
 
There's one going on right now somewhere on a C172. Some place where there's a restoration of a lodge in Idaho. Can't remember where I saw it, here maybe? I dunno. :dunno:
 
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A 177 sounds cool. There are enough variants to keep it interesting, and the retract part shouldn't scare anyone who wins it. The Complex Endorsement can be done during transition training, that's how I did mine as a brand new pilot.
 
Buying a plane to raffle off is not so good for generating revenue. You need to get a donated plane to raffle off, then you'll generate some revenue.

Someone will get the market value of the donated plane as their tax deduction, and then you'll be able to set the ticket quantity and price to be roughly 150% of the value of the airplane and it will be worth it to all involved.

If you have to buy the prize, you're severely disadvantaged in the process, and it may look to some as a sell a plane plan instead of an actual charitable program.
 
rolivi said:
Buying a plane to raffle off is not so good for generating revenue. You need to get a donated plane to raffle off, then you'll generate some revenue.

Someone will get the market value of the donated plane as their tax deduction, and then you'll be able to set the ticket quantity and price to be roughly 150% of the value of the airplane and it will be worth it to all involved.

If you have to buy the prize, you're severely disadvantaged in the process, and it may look to some as a sell a plane plan instead of an actual charitable program.
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Not disagreeing with you about the donation. One I need the donation personally so starting with a purchase doesn't scare me. Once I have established the raffle I think getting donations will be easier. Two I read the last 8 years of IRS form 990 of Wings of Hope charity raffle. Trust me it makes money.
 
Pioneer Valley cancelled their Cherokee Six raffle with 100 dollar tickets because they couldn't sell enough tickets.

While king airs, 777s, malibus sound cool, i think i would stick with something cheap.
 
tlrussell said:
Not disagreeing with you about the donation. One I need the donation personally so starting with a purchase doesn't scare me. Once I have established the raffle I think getting donations will be easier. Two I read the last 8 years of IRS form 990 of Wings of Hope charity raffle. Trust me it makes money.
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Yep. I spent last summer in Homer, Alaska. Everyone and their cousin was selling tickets to win a new vehicle by catching the largest halibut. I counted at least 20 vehicles being raffled.

Sell 5,000 tickets at 50 bucks apiece, give the vehicle to the fisherman that catches the biggest fish. Not a bad payday for the originator of the raffle, and those vehicles were not donated.

Hmmmm.... I might buy a couple vehicles and spend next summer in Homer again....
 
Something where the winner won't need to remortgage the house to pay the income taxes on the thing!
 
tlrussell said:
Not disagreeing with you about the donation. One I need the donation personally so starting with a purchase doesn't scare me. Once I have established the raffle I think getting donations will be easier. Two I read the last 8 years of IRS form 990 of Wings of Hope charity raffle. Trust me it makes money.
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What about the 1940s air terminal museum raffle? They seem to do theirs religiously, so it must work.
 
jaybee said:
Pioneer Valley cancelled their Cherokee Six raffle with 100 dollar tickets because they couldn't sell enough tickets.

While king airs, 777s, malibus sound cool, i think i would stick with something cheap.
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There are a myriad of good reason for an inexpensive plane. Cancelling a raffle I think would be more lack of marketing than anything else. Fortunately that is what I do.
 
As for the plane a 177 sounds like a good idea, or you could go for a Grumman AA5 series for something even a little more different than what you usually see in these raffles.

For the ticket spot from what others are saying and my own personal thoughts it sounds like $50 / ticket might be the sweet spot. But then again I know that's what the ones in the past have been so it's probably just experience bias.
 
Fredbob711 said:
As for the plane a 177 sounds like a good idea, or you could go for a Grumman AA5 series for something even a little more different than what you usually see in these raffles.

For the ticket spot from what others are saying and my own personal thoughts it sounds like $50 / ticket might be the sweet spot. But then again I know that's what the ones in the past have been so it's probably just experience bias.
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Fredbob I think the $100 single ticket with 3 for $175 is where a $50k refurbed 177 starts to look really good...something that looks good and has a GPS and autopilot with a low time engine.
 
Edfreds Comanche?
A decent Apache/Twinkie?
Citabria? T-craft/Aeronca?

Everybody does a 172/pa28, maybe a cub. Somehting different and keep the price around $40-100 with 1000-2000 tix max. Maybe a max number at 2k but the raffle will happen if 1200 get sold so it wont likely get cancelled.
 
ChemGuy said:
Edfreds Comanche?
A decent Apache/Twinkie?
Citabria? T-craft/Aeronca?

Everybody does a 172/pa28, maybe a cub. Somehting different and keep the price around $40-100 with 1000-2000 tix max. Maybe a max number at 2k but the raffle will happen if 1200 get sold so it wont likely get cancelled.
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We are thinking the same way..max number of tix and a guarantee tix number that the raffle will happen. Good ideas.
 
If you want something different, auction off an RV-10.
 
tlrussell said:
Not disagreeing with you about the donation. One I need the donation personally so starting with a purchase doesn't scare me. Once I have established the raffle I think getting donations will be easier. Two I read the last 8 years of IRS form 990 of Wings of Hope charity raffle. Trust me it makes money.
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So why not just buy the plane and donate it to Angel Flight to raffle off? If you want to help further, you could volunteer to help put it all together. No need to form your own entity.
 
Lindberg said:
So why not just buy the plane and donate it to Angel Flight to raffle off? If you want to help further, you could volunteer to help put it all together. No need to form your own entity.
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Well if I'm being honest it sounds like fun. Plus I think I could do a better job of it.
 
I hate to **** on your wheaties, but you may find it difficult to hold a 501C3 status for a business whose mission is defined as "raffling off airplanes for other people's charities."
 
The idea of a retract is nice. I don't get excited by the 1960's 172's in most of the raffles. Older bonanzas can be found for under 50k
 
tlrussell said:
Not disagreeing with you about the donation. One I need the donation personally so starting with a purchase doesn't scare me. Once I have established the raffle I think getting donations will be easier. Two I read the last 8 years of IRS form 990 of Wings of Hope charity raffle. Trust me it makes money.
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There are usually a couple raffle airplanes to be found at S-n-F and OSH and they seem to sell tickets pretty regularly (I'll normally pick up a ticket if I like the plane and the ticket isn't over $10-20 or so). I think you need to try to keep your expenses below $40k in order to generate anything substantial.

Wings of Hope is a 40 year old organization with a lot of established connections and a significant dedicated organization, they even have their own street at KSUS.:lol: So don't expect to see their numbers right away, plus, they ARE using donated aircraft and have in house maintenance and repair/restoration facilities that are also staffed by volunteers, or paid for through donation. They are a sharp, well tuned outfit whose numbers you may wish to emulate, but will fall short of until you build their level of infrastructure. However, if you do do this wisely and carefully, you should be able to create some revenue for them.
 
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I don't see the Henning post he's blocked...let me guess though. Something about how smart he is with raffles then some ridiculously obvious observation about how I should or shouldn't operate.

Henning my birthday is the 23rd do me a solid and never comment on my posts. I have 13,000 employees I think I can manage a raffle without your "help".
 
OK so 501c3 paperwork is in progress. Budgeted 100k loan to the org for starting capital. Need some help though.

1. Need help with a catchy name winner gets a free ticket when the raffle starts.

2. Need help with what are "seemingly" good deals on airplanes. For the first auction looking for 25k to 45k purchase. I would love to have a donated plane but that seems a little optimistic. So I'm looking for links to good raffle planes. No PM's looking to be as transparent as possible. I think that this would be a great service we should be doing anyway if you see a good deal lets get this thread started that way. Post the link or phone number. If you know anything about it post it. If your suggestion ends up being the plane you will get credit in the advertising and a free raffle ticket. We might even choose you to fly it to various events for promotion.

3. IF you have any interest in helping the cause by putting up flyers at your airport or anything else let me know. I a m not looking for any financial help only labor and time.

4. We are looking for vendors to contribute labor and materials to restore, renovate and promote the raffle.

All net proceeds are going to Angel Flight so it's a great cause and you can be as involved as you like. I will need 4 directors for the board if you feel like you have the time and experience let me know.
 
1. Naked Chicks*
* Won't be raffling off this airplane.

2. Most successful raffles seem to be using really REALLY old aircraft that someone took the time to refurbish somewhat but not a complete restoration, I'm assuming they did it for free, and rarely a brand/type that's popular in the training biz. They stick to stuff that's not competing with FBO/Training/Club dollars to buy them cheap.

3. Generate a PDF and post it, folks will hang it.

4. Labor seems to be the biggie.

Have you talked to other orgs that run airplane raffles? I doubt they'd be all that "secretive" about their internal process for finding, renovating, and raffling an aircraft.
 
denverpilot said:
1. Naked Chicks*
* Won't be raffling off this airplane.

2. Most successful raffles seem to be using really REALLY old aircraft that someone took the time to refurbish somewhat but not a complete restoration, I'm assuming they did it for free, and rarely a brand/type that's popular in the training biz. They stick to stuff that's not competing with FBO/Training/Club dollars to buy them cheap.

3. Generate a PDF and post it, folks will hang it.

4. Labor seems to be the biggie.

Have you talked to other orgs that run airplane raffles? I doubt they'd be all that "secretive" about their internal process for finding, renovating, and raffling an aircraft.
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LOL on the name. I will get the marketing materials posted as soon as name is chosen and we have the 501c3 in place. I think once we have the plane in place that getting some volunteers will be cake. I'm an organizer by trade so I got that. I have done extensive research on the IRS filings of others raffles. Pretty easy to see the mistakes. Thanks for the ideas.
 
Hank S said:
A 177 sounds cool. There are enough variants to keep it interesting, and the retract part shouldn't scare anyone who wins it. The Complex Endorsement can be done during transition training, that's how I did mine as a brand new pilot.
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I owned a 177RG for 9 years and I loved that airplane. That's one retract that can be insured by someone with very low retract time. If I remember correctly I had to have 10 hours of instruction in the airplane to satisfy my insurer when I bought mine. That being said I'm not so sure a 177 is an airplane that will appeal to the largest number of people. Personally I think a 182 fixed gear would be a better candidate to sell a lot of tickets.

With a 100K budget I think you might be able to find one with descent equipment, not top notch but descent.
 
Maverick said:
I owned a 177RG for 9 years and I loved that airplane. That's one retract that can be insured by someone with very low retract time. If I remember correctly I had to have 10 hours of instruction in the airplane to satisfy my insurer when I bought mine. That being said I'm not so sure a 177 is an airplane that will appeal to the largest number of people. Personally I think a 182 fixed gear would be a better candidate to sell a lot of tickets.

With a 100K budget I think you might be able to find one with descent equipment, not top notch but descent.
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a 182 is a strong choice I have owned many of them. Gotta be honest a Van's RV10 is my number one choice right now. I know its outside of my current budget but for the right one I'd do it.
 
tlrussell said:
a 182 is a strong choice I have owned many of them. Gotta be honest a Van's RV10 is my number one choice right now. I know its outside of my current budget but for the right one I'd do it.
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RV10 looks like a nice choice. It has about the same range and use full load as a 182. But it flies much faster than the 182. I would buy a ticket even though I am not flying now.
 
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