Airplane Options That meet my mission

Chicago Bearhawk

Chicago Bearhawk

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Chicago Bearhawk
Opening up a new thread to get ideas on answering this question: (I did search for other discussions and could not find what I wanted...)

I am looking for an airplane that will meet this mission:

1. Fly at close to 300 MPH (or kts...)
2. Lift about 1500 Useful load (fuel and people)
3. At least 4 seats and luggage, maybe a dog.
4. Range from Chicago/Gary to Tampa, Chicago/Gary to Dallas, and Chicago/Gary to Denver non-stop.
5. must be pressurized.

I would like something that gets at-least 5 miles/gallon, I am feeling a bit green today but that is a soft requirement.

really looking for a certified airplane, but I might be willing to look at an experimental if it meets all the above requirements.

So my wife has looked at things like Socata TBM, Cirrus Vision Jet, and Piper M450.
just wondering what other options there might be.
 
That 5mpg requirement is going to limit you. You’ll need to convert from pounds per hour of Jet-A.
 
OK let's get the discussion back on track:
Deleting my previous posts...
Using: https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com
and manufacture site, plus trade-a-plane

So
plane.......... cruise......Range....Pressurized....cost/hr...New retail.......Best Trade-a-plane today
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TBM 900.....330 kts.......1400 NM....yes...........$700/hr.....$3,710,000......$1,154,000
vision jet....300 kts.......1275 NM....yes...........$1000/hr...$2,850,000......$2,300,000
M500..........245 kts......1000 NM....yes...........*$550/hr....$2,200,000......$2,100,000

other ideas?
 
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TCABM said:
If you’ve got the stacks of high society, get the TBM.
Click to expand...
I like the TBM but

there have been 2 high profile incidents with this plane.
1. I can't find all the details , but I believe 1 was an icing incident with a tail stall. the plane is suposed to be good for Flight into known icing, Not sure if the FAA identified actual cause or probable.
2. I think was in California, as I recall pancaked onto a free way because of a manufacture defect. again I don't remember details but I think fuel pump or sending issue...

So I am sure all planes like this have issues. and at 300 kts things go bad in a hurry.
 
pick meeeeee

avmu2_01.jpg
 
Epic e1000 seems to meet all of your specs but maybe a little bit thirstier than you would like. But it does meet your specs at economy Cruise, or perhaps at half economy Cruise and regular cruise
 
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Aerostar
Meridian/M500
TBM 700/850/+
MU2 (a short one with -10s)
Merlin
Citation with Williams engines (501, Mustang)

edit: I see you're in Chicago. If you need a partner or SIC... ahem
 
What is your experience?

Have to made sure you can actually buy insurance for you in one of those aircraft?
 
Pinecone said:
What is your experience?

Have to made sure you can actually buy insurance for you in one of those aircraft?
Click to expand...
PP IR, 500 hrs.
So insurance and training will have to be a bridge I have to cross at some point.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
This has MU-2 written all over it.
Click to expand...

ok that is actually an idea:
plane.......... cruise......Range....Pressurized....cost/hr...New retail.......Best Trade-a-plane today
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TBM 900.....330 kts.......1400 NM....yes...........$700/hr.....$3,710,000......$1,154,000
vision jet....300 kts.......1275 NM....yes...........$1000/hr...$2,850,000......$2,300,000
M500..........245 kts......1000 NM....yes...........*$550/hr....$2,200,000......$2,100,000
MU-2..........340 kts......1400 NM....yes...........$**1400/hr....N/A.............$400,000

So it does not exist NEW, but on Trade-a-plane the cheapest is $400,000.
Assuming you budgeted $2,200,000 capital and $100,000/year annual expense for your plane.
you could by the MU-2 at say $400,000 - $600,000, invest the diff at 5%, gives you $90,000/y dividends to offset the higher operating costs, which may be close to $200,000/y.
Basically, after about 3 years you will have paid more to own maintain and operate this plane than the capital investment.

Now when I step out of the plane with me my wife and my dog, people are going to think I am not very environmentally friendly.

Insurance and Training will be another issue with this one...
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
@Chicago Bearhawk is there a reason why all the planes you mentioned so far are single engine? With two engines, your options become much better.
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Well I kinda did want single engine.
it should be "greener"
about half the annual operating costs.

But I might be willing to look at a twin.

I heard an old joke once:
Q. What is the second engine good for?
A. Getting you to the seen of the accident.

I laugh every time I hear that.
 
Chicago Bearhawk said:
ok that is actually an idea:
plane.......... cruise......Range....Pressurized....cost/hr...New retail.......Best Trade-a-plane today
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TBM 900.....330 kts.......1400 NM....yes...........$700/hr.....$3,710,000......$1,154,000
vision jet....300 kts.......1275 NM....yes...........$1000/hr...$2,850,000......$2,300,000
M500..........245 kts......1000 NM....yes...........*$550/hr....$2,200,000......$2,100,000
MU-2..........340 kts......1400 NM....yes...........$**1400/hr....N/A.............$400,000

So it does not exist NEW, but on Trade-a-plane the cheapest is $400,000.
Assuming you budgeted $2,200,000 capital and $100,000/year annual expense for your plane.
you could by the MU-2 at say $400,000 - $600,000, invest the diff at 5%, gives you $90,000/y dividends to offset the higher operating costs, which may be close to $200,000/y.
Basically, after about 3 years you will have paid more to own maintain and operate this plane than the capital investment.

Now when I step out of the plane with me my wife and my dog, people are going to think I am not very environmentally friendly.

Insurance and Training will be another issue with this one...
Click to expand...
Some rambling comments about this table:
A used MU2 Soltaire with -10s MIGHT get you 310 KTAS in winter months. To get 340 you'd have to put new/overhauled engines on it which is not worth the money IMO. Also the cost per hour on the MU2 seems high, probably because they're including engine overhaul. Many owners never overhaul and only do HSI's which would reduce it some.

If you're capital sensitive, MU2 supports that, as does Meridian (pre-M500).

TBM900s are north of $3M. 850s probably 2.5-3. 700s are probably $1.5M and since 700s powered by -64's instead of the newer -66s, etc - are probably slower than 300 KTAS.

Also for TBM, Vision Jet, and Meridian/M500 - range, speed, and useful load are all related. MU2 isn't as sensitive to useful load. So a TBM will do that range if you're all fuel and no cargo.

A mid-70s to early 80s Citation ISP (C501, not a 500 with the SP waiver) will be a sub-$1M plane you can run for the price of a MU2 (700-1k/hr) as long as you don't budget for full overhauls and don't ingest a bird.
 
TCABM said:
@Ted can tell you about the MU-2.
Click to expand...

The most important thing for the OP to know is that he/she needs a lot more experience to fly one.

If the few high profile TBM crashes are a concern, the MU2 has… more than that. It’s a plane for professionals.

That said, I think the OP needs to accept that, at this phase in flying (500 hours and PP/IR, look to step up to that plane that fits the mission, accept something that doesn’t quite meet it in the meantime.
 
Ted said:
look to step up to that plane that fits the mission, accept something that doesn’t quite meet it in the meantime.
Click to expand...

I am coming to that conclusion quickly.
The training would be fun, but the time commitment to stay trained and current is or may be significant.
 
Chicago Bearhawk said:
I am coming to that conclusion quickly.
The training would be fun, but the time commitment to stay trained and current is or may be significant.
Click to expand...

Basically anything you’re talking about for the mission will have mandated annual training by insurance, and for your experience level you’ll be looking at a significant number of hours of dual. The insurance market is rotten now for transition to more advanced aircraft.

I’m not sure what you’re flying now, but look for one step up from that at a time, not a giant leap. Aside from making it more likely that you can get insured and have a successful transition that isn’t a headache, it also makes it more likely you don’t become an NTSB report.
 
Buying an airplane comes with high transaction costs and it sounds like money isn't your limiting factor. Buy the TBM (probably the best fit for what you described as your mission) and hire a good mentor pilot to fly with you the first 100 hours or so. Even better, hire the mentor pilot first and get some help picking out the best TBM for your needs.

One alternative is incremental steps. If your 500 hours are in a PA-28, get the next 500 in a PA-32, then the 500 after that in a PA-46. This is the path most of us take, but most of us can't stomach the $50,000 first hour cost of insurance by making the leap. That's not a made-up number. Between premiums, dual time, and simulator school requirements, I had an insurance quote that would cost me that much plus a week away from work in order to get my first hour in a nice $220,000 Navajo two years ago when there was such a thing as a nice $220,000 Navajo.

The other alternative is the airlines. Ask anyone you see flying any of the planes you are interested in leaping up to when he last had a $100 hamburger. Fuel costs below FL180, engine cycles, and the sheer hassle of getting a 7,000-pound airplane out of the hangar keeps most turbine planes on the ground between serious trips.

In conclusion, life is short, buy the TBM.
 
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