Airpark HOA ???

pmanton

pmanton

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
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5,346
Location
Indian Hills Airpark Salome, AZ
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N1431A
Question for all you airpark residents. How many of you who have runway lots are barred from being in the runway safety area? (That is the runway proper and whatever distance from the center line that the CC&Rs designate as an object free safety area.)

We have a long going dispute between a group of people who live on the runway, and another group who live on the taxi ways. The non runway group sued the runway group for not abiding by the CC&Rs and keeping the runway easement free of objects. (This was not really a safety issue as it was revenge for an earlier law suit brought against the non runway people by the runway group)

As a result an agreement supervised by the court was reached between the two groups and the HOA Board to keep the easement area free of objects. Signed and sealed and delivered. No problem it only makes sense to keep objects out of the runway easement.

Well the non runway group hauled the HOA Board back into court saying they weren't enforcing the ruling. Objects include people. The judge agreed and now we people who live on the runway are lot allowed on about 35% of our acre lots. Can't weed, can't do maintenance, can't go there period.

I feel this is ludricous and wonder if any other airpark residents are barred from their runway safety zone.:mad3:

I'm really ****ed, since I wasn't here when this dispute started, and am now caught up in one groups quest for revenge against another group.:mad:

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
 
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the whole point of a runway safety zone is to keep the area around the runway safe, ie free from things to run into. although they should issue a blanket people and equipment working notam so that you can mow yer yard. thats just silly
 
Just go out there and do your yard work when you want to. It sounds pretty stupid to me.

HOA's are the worst thing to have to deal with as a homeowner. I will never make the mistake again of living some where that has an HOA.
 
This is why I don't live in a neighborhood with an HoA, and never will.

Seems stupid and a pain. You'd think that a bunch of people who love airplanes would be able to get along better than that!
 
Looks like people living on airparks can be as petty and stupid as the general population (looking at the number of lawsuits surrounding airparks it seems that they are ahead on both counts).
 
Steve Foley said:
And get cited for contempt of court?
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No you are doing your job and are checking for foreign objects in the runway safety area. How else are you to know if the area is clean unless you go out everyday and inspect it.
 
I'll bet the complaints were not about someone mowing. You're an uniintended consequence.

Is the HOA now responsible for maintenance on that 35% of the yard to keep the runway safety zone up?
 
Badly designed airpark. You need all propertly lines to stop 250' from the runway. All of that 550 foot wide zone needs to be administered as a condominium.

I've looked at several airparks and walked because of this.....
 
weilke said:
Looks like people living on airparks can be as petty and stupid as the general population (looking at the number of lawsuits surrounding airparks it seems that they are ahead on both counts).
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You have to remember that people who live in airparks are usually pilots and pilots tend to be opinionated and hard-headed. :rofl:
 
You all need to have a serious "come together" meeting. People united by something as joyous as the privilege of owning and operating airplanes, and living at an airpark, need to work harder to set aside their differences and concentrate on their common goals. It's not as if there aren't enough obstacles to successful airpark operation external to the place!

I suggest you all agree on a professional mediator, and get some cooperation started.
 
Everskyward said:
You have to remember that people who live in airparks are usually pilots and pilots tend to be opinionated and hard-headed. :rofl:
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Hey, what're you calling me?! :mad3:

:rofl:
 
ron22 said:
No you are doing your job and are checking for foreign objects in the runway safety area. How else are you to know if the area is clean unless you go out everyday and inspect it.
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Yet apparently, the judge feels differently
The judge agreed and now we people who live on the runway are lot allowed on about 35% of our acre lots. Can't weed, can't do maintenance, can't go there period.
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If the judge says not to do something, and you do it anyway, it's called contempt of court.
 
bbchien said:
Badly designed airpark. You need all propertly lines to stop 250' from the runway. All of that 550 foot wide zone needs to be administered as a condominium.

I've looked at several airparks and walked because of this.....
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So the solution is to get the HOA to purchase the back xx feet of property at fair market value from the people along the runway?
 
Everskyward said:
You have to remember that people who live in airparks are usually pilots and pilots tend to be opinionated and hard-headed. :rofl:
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Airparks seem to attract their share of loonies. I remember one conflict where a runway lot owner parked extended cherry pickers on 'his' share of the safety zone just to spite the other owners.

Have to agree with Bruce. Poorly laid out (technical and legal) airpark if the runway safety zone is not either in the common pot (and mowed by the associatoion) or protected by a proper easement (defining the height and stem thickness of shrubs and the right of the HOA to mow and trim if the owner doesn't maintain)

At Crest airpark they have a court order governing the walking of dogs....
 
weilke said:
Looks like people living on airparks can be as petty and stupid as the general population (looking at the number of lawsuits surrounding airparks it seems that they are ahead on both counts).
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Absolutely...but they are a necessary evil in something like an airpark. I will not regal you with the tales of the battles that occurred during our recent dues increase. :yikes:

As far as the "safety area" our runway is 100 ft wide. There is no formal, additional safety area. My property is MINE (and yes I am on the runway). Hell I was out mowing the other day, right along the edge of the runway, while planes were landing and taking off....no biggie. Hell not even our community is that petty!
 
Our big problem is that this whole affair is motivated by anger and a desire for revenge.

The basic dispute seems to have started many years ago over people living in motorhomes. A suite was brought against a number of people who were living in their motorhomes, either next door to, or inside their hangars, rather than building a regular house. The CC&R at that time did not prohibit motorhomes.

In a series of court battles that went all the way to the AZ Supreme Court, the motorhome chaps lost. It was ruled that, even though the CC&R did not prohibit living in a motor home, it did not specifically allow it therefore it was not allowed.

This suit was brought by a number of people who live on the runway.

One of the motorhome people then brought suit about obstructions in the safety zone. A court supervised agreement was hammered out between the motorhome person, eight of the runway dwellers who had sued over the motorhome usage and the HOA Board. During the agreement the plaintiff insisted upon the noun "Objects" rather than obstructions, dwellings, or any other term. As a result some shubbery and other stuff was relocated.

Some time later he brought the HOA board back into court for non compliance with the agreement. There were still people entering the safety zone and people were objects. The judge said people are indeed objects and there we are.

I'm new to the place and was blindsided by the people ruling. The HOA board is going back into court asking for reconsideration. People who are part of the motorhome group are screaming "Don't spend my money for those runway slobs" The person who brought this suit is funded by a person with very deep pockets who seems to want to destroy the airpark.

It's really ruining what could be aviation paradise. We have a paved lighted runway with no obstructions, wonderful weather, out airplanes a couple of feet from our houses and an atmosphere of animosity:mad:

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is why I don't live in a neighborhood with an HoA, and never will.

Seems stupid and a pain. You'd think that a bunch of people who love airplanes would be able to get along better than that!
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Hardly. There was one place down south of Houston that had about 10-12 five acre lots along a paved runway.. there was always one or more high dollar residents suing the others when the HOA didnt act they way said residents wanted.

Finally took the main protagonist dying of old age for it to settle down.
 
Doggtyred said:
Whats the fair market value of land you cant build on, walk on or otherwise occupy?
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When property is "taken" the value is typically based on what the property would have been worth without the project that is taking the property.

So, in this case, it would be based on the value of vacant residential property on an airpark in that area.
 
My current neighbourhood has an HOA. As part of the due diligence before the closing, I did a search on the HOA as an entity (and its corporate officers). Most states have this stuff online, getting the actual complaints required a trip to the courthouse and a couple of bucks in photocopy charges. That and the minutes of the last 3 HOA annual meetings satisfied me that I wasn't dealing with a bunch of sue-happy nutcases (the lawsuits dealt with fee collection, not the colour of siding or othere petty HOA stuff).
 
My only experience with a HOA has been in the past 3 months, as we are renting in a HOA community. As soon as my lease is up, it will be my LAST experience with a HOA community.

The second week we were there, we went to get our 'IDs' so we could use the pool and tennis court when it warmed up. Their response was "Well, we only make IDs during certain times of the year - watch the message board and come back. Oh, and make sure you keep the weeds out of your yard, we are very particular about that." Notsomuch as a 'Welcome to the area. Where did you move from?'

THEN, week before last, my wife's parents came to visit. They had been snow-birding in Texas all winter, so they had their camper shell on their truck and new 5x8 enclosed trailer for their 'stuff'. I knew the HOA was picky about that kind of stuff, so I finangled a way to get the trailer in my garage, and we parked the truck/camper as close to the house as possible. They were leaving on a Monday, so Sunday afternoon, we pulled the trailer out and hooked it to the truck and parked everything in the driveway so they could leave easily. Two days after they left, we got a letter from the HOA saying "Remove the camper and trailer immediately." and "There are weeds in your yard - get rid of them immediately." It took every ounce of restraint for me not to go over to the office and tell them where they could stick their letters - and I was willing to show them if they needed help.

What's really sad is that the people in the neighborhood are pretty friendly, and due to the current market there are some really nice houses for REALLY low prices right now, but I refuse to buy anything in that 'holier than thou' place.
 
Chris, you've hit on why I don't/won't buy in an HoA. My response to complaints like that is to let weeds proliferate and park burned out cars in my driveway.

You can get bad setups in a place without an HoA (like my neighborhood), though. If the neighbors don't like anything I'm doing they're sure to come over and tell me very rudely. At which point I'm sure to politely smile, nod, and think "Yep, you've just guaranteed I'm not going to do anything about that."
 
yea chris time to spread bird feed out in the yard. maybe your mower could break down too.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Chris, you've hit on why I don't/won't buy in an HoA. My response to complaints like that is to let weeds proliferate and park burned out cars in my driveway.
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Exactly. It almost made me want to jack the Jeep up in the driveway and pull the axles, just because I can.

What really ticked me off about the weeds is that IT IS SPRING. The only reason they say we have weeds is because things are turning green. I'm sorry, but I have worked in the Agriculture industry for more than a few years, and I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between weeds and grass recovering from winter dormancy. Idiots.

You can get bad setups in a place without an HoA (like my neighborhood), though. If the neighbors don't like anything I'm doing they're sure to come over and tell me very rudely. At which point I'm sure to politely smile, nod, and think "Yep, you've just guaranteed I'm not going to do anything about that."
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My goal is to live far enough away from my neighbor that if he/she comes to complain, I have plenty of time to get a laser dot on them before they cross off my property line when they leave. ;)
 
once your truck dies id be happy to donate it to the cause. i estimate it probably should be in about another 100K miles
 
tonycondon said:
once your truck dies id be happy to donate it to the cause. i estimate it probably should be in about another 100K miles
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Blasphemy! That thing will never die. They will outlaw gasoline before that thing stops running.

Did Matt drive it to Maryland or Maine or something recently?
 
CJones said:
My goal is to live far enough away from my neighbor that if he/she comes to complain, I have plenty of time to get a laser dot on them before they cross off my property line when they leave. ;)
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I used to have a neighbor who said the secret is to have a corner lot. That way you only have to deal with one ******* neighbor. Then he said, "Oh. I didn't mean YOU, though".
 
CJones said:
Blasphemy! That thing will never die. They will outlaw gasoline before that thing stops running.

Did Matt drive it to Maryland or Maine or something recently?
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no matt ended up taking the taurus. good thing too, i would've had to declare bankruptcy if i had paid the gas bill. we're heading to Marfa tomorrow though.

you're right, it probably will never die.
 
HOAs are pure evil. I'd build a tower. Scratch that I'd never move to an airpark in the first place.
 
CJones said:
Exactly. It almost made me want to jack the Jeep up in the driveway and pull the axles, just because I can.
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Yeah. HoAs are about people who have no power trying to exercise it over sheep so they can feel superior. If you buy into a community that has grass measured to be 2" tall at all parts and keeping everyone homogenous, it's fine. I don't.

My goal is to live far enough away from my neighbor that if he/she comes to complain, I have plenty of time to get a laser dot on them before they cross off my property line when they leave. ;)
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You and me both. We should start an airpark. ;)
 
i think junk yards should have a HOA service. They'll park a barely road worthy junker in the street out in front of your neighbors house for a week for X dollars. Maybe move it around every day between your favorite neighbors.

or maybe hire some teenagers or gang bangers to cruise the neighborhood. loud music, hydraulics etc.
 
tonycondon said:
i think junk yards should have a HOA service. They'll park a barely road worthy junker in the street out in front of your neighbors house for a week for X dollars. Maybe move it around every day between your favorite neighbors.
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That makes me think of some stories that are best told with lots of Crown and no recording devices present... ;)
 
tonycondon said:
...or maybe hire some teenagers or gang bangers to cruise the neighborhood. loud music, hydraulics etc.
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heh - the two teens that live across the street were out in their driveway one evening, about 8pm, with the car doors open and the stereo thumping. I was sitting on my porch and was about to do my old-man act and wave my fist at them when I realized it was a Christian-rock station they were listening to. I chuckled and popped open another beer.
 
i can't wait to get old enough to do the old man get off my lawn thing.

gran3.jpg
 
pmanton said:
One of the motorhome people then brought suit about obstructions in the safety zone. A court supervised agreement was hammered out between the motorhome person, eight of the runway dwellers who had sued over the motorhome usage and the HOA Board. During the agreement the plaintiff insisted upon the noun "Objects" rather than obstructions, dwellings, or any other term. As a result some shubbery and other stuff was relocated.
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I hate getting into this, but... is an airplane an object?
 
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