Airline Pilot Quality of Life

Direct C51

Direct C51

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
341
Display Name
Display name:
Direct C51
So I've been thinking pretty hard about moving to the airlines but I can't decide what is going to afford the best quality of life. Currently I fly helicopter HAA (EMS) and am content, but not super happy. I've made right at $100k a year with overtime my first 2 years and on track to do the same this year. Schedule is 7/7 but obviously I've worked some overtime to make that pay. My location isn't exactly where I want to be, but not the worst. Drive to work is 15 minutes. I don't fly as much as I want to, and the flying isn't all that exciting. The med crew can be fun (not that often), or they can be a total pain.

With the heavy recruiting the regionals are doing, as well as the R-ATP rotor transition programs, the airlines are now an option. The pay will be a lot worse until I flow to a major carrier, but then will become $200k - $300k at the end of my working days. I've calculated my overall earnings at the airlines to match my helicopter EMS pay around year 13 or so with my current pay of $100k a year. After that, it far exceeds anything I'll ever make flying helicopters. The airline schedule seems to have roughly the same number of days off per month, maybe more if you factor in the overtime days I currently work to make what I do. I can trade time off for commuting time if I want to live exactly where I want while flying for the airlines.

My optimal outcome in life would be to live near the coast, making enough money to afford to live there with a little left over to fly recreationally. This is possible if I happen to fall in to one of the few helicopter EMS pilot positions near where I want to live, but these locations are pretty hard to come by. Conversely, this seems almost guaranteed if I stick around the airlines for awhile and commute. I'm sure the grass is always greener, but I would love to glean some insight from those who have been there. Are the airlines what I am making them out to be?
 
For now probably, because the future seems bright. But who knows what it will be like in 5 or 10 years? Lots of helo guys are taking advantage or the RTP programs. If you can handle the pay cut, now seems to be the time to do it.
 
You probably know what I do, I'm a full ATP, and I ain't moving
 
This outta be good...
giphy.gif
 
Now is a good time to make the jump. Hiring should be strong for the foreseeable future. Don't know how old you are but if you can get your 1000 hours turbine PIC at the regionals I think you would be a pretty prime candidate for the majors. Your 13 year break even seems a little long to me. F/O's at our airline are making about $170k in the second year.
 
We've got guys jumping for the airlines and overseas helo contract right now. Personally, if it were about money, I'd go overseas contract any day over the regionals. Start off making 3 times what the regionals make and tax free.

If it's about flying people from A to B in a jet, then go for it. Just hope we don't have a recession, get furloughed and then get hired on somewhere else and lose seniority. Read that on the airline forums many times before.

Good luck.
 
QOL means different things to different people and while money can help achieve QOL, it isn't synonymous with it.

Yeah, I know, not helpful.
 
There are so many factors to deal with. This is YOUR decision.
I would tell you more but I am just a few days into a block of 33 days off and then go back and do an eleven day round the world and then off for 14.

My company just announced continued hiring through 2018. Hiring is VERY competitive here.

Recession? Yes it happens. Furloughs happen. If you wait out of fear then you will be at the bottom of the list and go first. I flew corporate and guess what went first in a downturn and I flew for a Fortune 100 company.
 
Direct C51 said:
With the heavy recruiting the regionals are doing, as well as the R-ATP rotor transition programs, the airlines are now an option. The pay will be a lot worse until I flow to a major carrier, but then will become $200k - $300k at the end of my working days.
Click to expand...

My neighbor retired from the Air Force flying F-15's and T-38's (don't know if he had an ATP). He's currently finishing up training with an airline. Total time from start to finish is going to be about six weeks and he'll be in the cockpit. And that's with a major airline not a regional.

Not sure how you compare to a Air Force colonel in terms of experience but maybe you wouldn't have to spend time at a regional.
 
donjohnston said:
Not sure how you compare to a Air Force colonel in terms of experience but maybe you wouldn't have to spend time at a regional.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but... being a high time rotor guy doesn't necessarily translate in sliding into a job at a major. Spending a year or two at a regional would be a good stepping stone in learning to fly the airline way and getting some fixed wing turboprop or jet time.

As an example, a few months ago I flew with a new hire FO who had right at 100 hrs in the 737; he was Army, flew helicopters and Citations... but he still had a hard time landing the Super Guppy. Granted, a 737-900ER is a stretch too far, an overweight, fast-landing pig, but he planted that thing so hard at ORD it actually scared me. I thought he drove the gear up through the wings; it didn't, but ouch. This is not to say that all rotorheads would be this way, but if I were on the hiring board at a major and were looking at a high time chopper guy vs a regional captain, I'd likely pick the RJ guy... but that's just me.
 
I don't know your times but without a bunch of fixed wing time the majors are not going to call. Life at a regional right now is not bad. Pay is up, and movement is good. Your first few months will be on reserve in a city you probably don't want to be, comutting sucks. The good news is the days of 15k a year are over for now and upgrades are coming sooner. One you get to a major life gets better, but you will be back on reserve in a city you may not want to be in, I've been at the bottom of reserve for a year and a half. Luckily it's in a city I want to be in, and on second year pay I make well over 100k. If you are commuting to a crash pad qwl can suck, if you live in base reserve can be good, I average about 9 days a month of flying.
 
Wow....My very short time as a regional FO years ago paid on average 13,000/yr. There was like 46 guys sharing one bedroom apartments, and living in their cars for the rest of the month....

If the pay back then was same as the pay now I might have stayed.

Oh well, decision made, no regrets, some good opportunities came my way and QoL is where I want it to be right now.
 
Upgrade times are low and pay is decent. First year pay at my regional is 60K doing the bare minimum (75 hour guarantee) a month.
 
I think your pay computation is a bit off. I don't see it taking 13 years to get to where you are now pay wise. But..... that depends on how fast you can get to a Major Airline. Most majors you'd be making 100k within 2.5 years and it just goes up from there as does the quality of life too with each passing month.

Many people lack the forward vision to see that so they tend to get "stuck". By the time they figure this out (if they figure it out) they convince themselves that they're happy where they're at - but it's not all that believable.
 
jbDC9 said:
Yeah, but... being a high time rotor guy doesn't necessarily translate in sliding into a job at a major.
Click to expand...

And I would have not thought that a high time fighter jock would translate into a job at a major.

You just never know.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I think your pay computation is a bit off. I don't see it taking 13 years to get to where you are now pay wise. But..... that depends on how fast you can get to a Major Airline. Most majors you'd be making 100k within 2.5 years and it just goes up from there as does the quality of life too with each passing month.

Many people lack the forward vision to see that so they tend to get "stuck". By the time they figure this out (if they figure it out) they convince themselves that they're happy where they're at - but it's not all that believable.
Click to expand...

At the major I work for you can be making $100k the first year and second year puts him back at $130k easily.

These are the days.

OP go check out the pay rates for various airlines and airlinepilotcentral.com. It's a VERY rough estimate but multiplying the hourly rates by 1000 gives you an idea what the pay would be.
 
QOL is worth more than money. You only get one run at this thing called life. Home every night, no real commute, and the beach most weekends? That is worth more than higher salary. I want to be there when my family and friends grow older.

Good luck with your decision.
 
GLMS_NC said:
QOL is worth more than money. You only get one run at this thing called life. Home every night, no real commute, and the beach most weekends? That is worth more than higher salary. I want to be there when my family and friends grow older.

Good luck with your decision.
Click to expand...
Yup. My last 20 years have been a mix of corporate style flying and airlines.
I'm blown away when I think I've lived 10 of those years in a hotel.
 
Now is about the best time to try this, be sure to factor in your ability to roll back to HAA in the risk/reward scenarios.

And QOL is king.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yup. My last 20 years have been a mix of corporate style flying and airlines.
I'm blown away when I think I've lived 10 of those years in a hotel.
Click to expand...

If you enjoy being on the road though then QOL wouldn't be that bad. If I were in my 20s the travel and the newness of it all might be enjoyable. Now, after living in 6 different locales prior to the military and 8 in 20 years of the military, my travel days are over. I don't even like traveling to the sim for 3 days out of the year! :D
 
To add on. Each company is different. When I flew passenger airlines I routinely flew 800 plus hard hours a year. Now flying small packages I very rarely do 300 hours hard time a year and make 300K base pay.

Each person you talk to will not have a clue as to what the other airline makes. The nomenclature and the contracts are totally different. Like I told my brother once. I can give you my schedule, my contract and give you a five day pairing and you will not have a clue as to what and how the pay is calculated. We have about five different ways to be paid and I have been on trips where each day is calculated differently. That is why the company has a whole department to figure it, another department to double check that one and the union has a whole department and computer programs to double check it all....and still mistakes are made.
 
GLMS_NC said:
QOL is worth more than money. You only get one run at this thing called life. Home every night, no real commute, and the beach most weekends? That is worth more than higher salary. I want to be there when my family and friends grow older.

Good luck with your decision.
Click to expand...

Every major airline has day trips or turn lines. Out and back to the Carribbean or trans con routes. You're home every night. They're not even really that senior either as most of us don't like having to drive into work four days in a row. But if that floats your boat it's there.
 
MD11Pilot said:
Each person you talk to will not have a clue as to what the other airline makes. The nomenclature and the contracts are totally different.
Click to expand...


You got that right. Our contract here is just short of 700 pages with all the LOAs/MOUs added in and I'm sure it looks nothing like yours.
 
Velocity173 said:
If you enjoy being on the road though then QOL wouldn't be that bad. If I were in my 20s the travel and the newness of it all might be enjoyable. Now, after living in 6 different locales prior to the military and 8 in 20 years of the military, my travel days are over. I don't even like traveling to the sim for 3 days out of the year! :D
Click to expand...
Exactly... exciting for the first few years, maybe....
Now I just can't wait to get home.
 
Kritchlow said:
Exactly... exciting for the first few years, maybe....
Now I just can't wait to get home.
Click to expand...

I could understand this...I hear it from my SW friend as well...but man it sure has to beat sitting in front of a computer screen in a cubicle all day. Maybe not...idk
 
CC268 said:
I could understand this...I hear it from my SW friend as well...but man it sure has to beat sitting in front of a computer screen in a cubicle all day. Maybe not...idk
Click to expand...
I'm not sure either.... I've never sat in a cubicle for 8 hours a day for 20 years.
All I can say is I love to be home, sleeping in my own bed. It's the little things.
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm not sure either.... I've never sat in a cubicle for 8 hours a day for 20 years.
All I can say is I love to be home, sleeping in my own bed. It's the little things.
Click to expand...

Well if I ever leave my job to fly airplanes for a living I'll give you a report on my opinion
 
CC268 said:
Alright and you can switch rolls and sit in a cube for many years then we can truly compare lol
Click to expand...
You know... I wish I could. I often wish I knew some sort of skill well enough to make a living at other than flying.
Don't get me wrong, I love to fly, but.... when you're doing it on someone else's schedule to a place you don't want to go, and in weather you'd rather sit out....
Different ballgame than GA.
 
Kritchlow said:
You know... I wish I could. I often wish I knew some sort of skill well enough to make a living at other than flying.
Don't get me wrong, I love to fly, but.... when you're doing it on someone else's schedule to a place you don't want to go, and in weather you'd rather sit out....
Different ballgame than GA.
Click to expand...

Yea I guess the grass is always greener somewhere else
 
Kritchlow said:
You know... I wish I could. I often wish I knew some sort of skill well enough to make a living at other than flying.
Don't get me wrong, I love to fly, but.... when you're doing it on someone else's schedule to a place you don't want to go, and in weather you'd rather sit out....
Different ballgame than GA.
Click to expand...
You need to get a gig where you can pick your trips.
 
Art VanDelay said:
You need to get a gig where you can pick your trips.
Click to expand...
I can... I don't see where that helps with anything unless I bid day turns. Four day trips suck, but day turns would be downright yucky.
Yeah, yeah... no pleasing me. That's okay... only a few years to go!!
 
Kritchlow said:
I can... I don't see where that helps with anything unless I bid day turns. Four day trips suck, but day turns would be downright yucky.
Yeah, yeah... no pleasing me. That's okay... only a few years to go!!
Click to expand...
Ok so you have no destinations that are any more desirable than others ?
 
Honestly, only you can determine if the airline lifestyle fits "quality of life" for you.

It is a complicated mix of what you like to do in life, what your family can tolerate, and what your seniority can hold at your particular airline. My airline has a wide swath of possible lifestyles, from two-week round-the-world trips each month to day or night out-and-backs, and everything in between.

For pretty much every lifestyle, there's an airplane and scheduling solution for you, once your seniority can hold it.

Personally, I'm on a widebody that flies generally only in North America, and I spend just less than half of the month on average on the road. Specific trip lengths vary from 2-5 days, and days off have just as much variation.

I like the work lifestyle I have quite a lot, and I'm looking forward to being at a company that will allow me to change it up through the years in case I get bored or want to see something different.
 
Living in base helps QOL tremendously. I like that when I'm done with a trip, I'm actually done. I don't have to worry about if I'm going to make the oversold flight home or have to stick it out another night in the crashpad or hotel. My 15-17 days off a month are actually 15-17 days off. If I was a commuter, it may be a few days less due to commuting in the day before or getting stuck an extra day trying to go back home.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I guess the grass is always greener somewhere else
Click to expand...
You need a new engineering job. Some are fun and full of problem solving - and interesting.

Airline life isn't for me but I wouldn't discourage it. I hate to travel if it's not my choice but YMMV. A job I would LOVE is ATC, perfect mix IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top