Aircraft Stalls as Skydivers Prepare to Jump

azpilot

azpilot

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azpilot

Wow! It gets really exciting at ~1:20. Another one comes out at 1:43. Yikes!!!

-- Copy / Paste from reddit --

PILOT's PERSPECTIVE:

  1. The aircraft was inspected and is undamaged.

  2. The jump run procedure entails setting flaps 60-80 and bringing back the left engine to flight idle. We also bring the left prop back to full coarse to minimize disking of the prop. This is to enable the jumpers to egress onto the outside step, which would otherwise be difficult due to the prop & thrust blast from the left engine. There is also the added danger of the blast pushing jumpers into the left elevator. Power is kept on the right engine to maintain altitude during the jump run, which typically takes 60 seconds. A fair amount of right rudder is required to fly a straight line in this configuration. Pilot to maintain 95-90 kts IAS.

  3. The stall and subsequent spin happened when we allowed too many jumpers on the outside step, causing an aft center of gravity and excessive blocking of the airflow to the left horizontal stabilizer. The nose then pitched up beyond the controllability of the elevator.

  4. I anticipated the stall when I hit the elevator stop. As the wing came over, I moved the right engine power and prop levers back to the flight idle position, thereby neutralizing the engine effect from both engines, centralized the ailerons and applied full right rudder (rudder was already in quite deep in at this point). The aircraft behaved very well, and the recovery was surprisingly easy. I pulled out as gently as possible as I did not want to stress the airframe. There was some additional instability when I pulled out of the dive and pushed the throttles forward to power up, as the one engine spooled up much quicker than the other and caused another asymmetrical moment. The flaps may have inadvertently helped to keep the airspeed low. AIS showed 140kts when I pulled out.

  5. The incident was reported to CAA within 24 hours. They investigated (including a visit to our hangar) and they seem to be happy that the aircraft was operated and flown within its STC.

  6. In future, no more than 5 jumpers will be allowed on the outside step. We will also brief the big formations to be wary of a pitch moment of the nose of the aircraft, so they can let go should this ever happen. This will also be placarded inside the aircraft and included in our King Air briefing for new jumpers.
 
That is absolutely insane!
 
Salty said:
It does, though his explanation fits the facts. Except for his leaving out the secondary stall later….
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That was in point 4.

I anticipated the stall when I hit the elevator stop. As the wing came over, I moved the right engine power and prop levers back to the flight idle position, thereby neutralizing the engine effect from both engines, centralized the ailerons and applied full right rudder (rudder was already in quite deep in at this point). The aircraft behaved very well, and the recovery was surprisingly easy. I pulled out as gently as possible as I did not want to stress the airframe. There was some additional instability when I pulled out of the dive and pushed the throttles forward to power up, as the one engine spooled up much quicker than the other and caused another asymmetrical moment. The flaps may have inadvertently helped to keep the airspeed low. AIS showed 140kts when I pulled out.
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Something somewhat similar with a Beaver.

Owner distracted pilot to stuff more jumpers in.

Stall/spin on jump run.

Despite a lot of pushing and shoving the jumpers were unable to exit.

Pilot started to leave his seat but was shoved back and told;

“ There is nowhere to go!”

Eventually sufficient jumpers were thrown out and recovery was accomplished

at a very low altitude.

Injuries were minor but I believe the Beaver was disassembled.


Previously the same aircraft had another misadventure.

Jumpers would try to catch the Tail on the way out.

One time they succeeded.

Off came the Elevator.

Landing was uneventful.

it seems some orgs have developed dangerous cultures.
 
If you watch the video there is someone that gets thrown out of the plane at 1:43
 
Spinka said:
Looked more like a secondary stall. Going almost inverted again like that seems unlikely to be caused by an uneven spool up.
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I mostly meant the pilot acknowledged a 2nd event. They interpreted it being due to uneven spool up. Secondary stall seems more likely.
 
I have been there and done that. The Caravan pilot was rather mad at us... So a change of procedure followed, not allowing so many outside the door.

A friend did it in a Loadstar in '83, I think. He was the last out. He made it out after being plastered to the floor without being able to move. He just was kind of spit out of the door. 11 others didn't make it out.

It is a difficult realtionship between skydiver and jump pilot. The skydivers are happy go lucky there for fun and adventure. The pilot is there, or should be, to safely do his job.

I don't jump anymore. Side note.
 
This does happen occasionally.


Skydivers don't always understand the limitations of aircraft, and they, as a group, are not overly risk averse.

Glad to hear you pulled this off without any damage or injury.
 
I had a discussion in another forum about this event. Here is what I found out/ figured out...

  • This is a classic VMCa stall. The pilot, by his own admission "The jump run procedure entails setting flaps 60-80 and bringing back the left engine to flight idle. We also bring the left prop back to full coarse to minimize disking of the prop. [...] Power is kept on the right engine to maintain altitude during the jump run... A fair amount of right rudder is required to fly a straight line in this configuration. Pilot to maintain 95-90 kts IAS. VMCA in a King Air 200 is 86kts so he's already close to the edge to begin with.
  • According to my source, most King Air DZ pilots pull both engines back at the same time and start a slow descent to avoid this very type of thing.

As I said in another forum, this pilot has one hell of a bar story to tell having survived not only a VMCa stall but also a spin in a King Air.
 
Spin the plane as the jumpers ascend through a cloud layer in area of the Great Lakes.
 
In addition to the comments about the plane spinning - Skydivers are allowed to drop through clouds? I would have thought not.
 
WDD said:
In addition to the comments about the plane spinning - Skydivers are allowed to drop through clouds? I would have thought not.
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Not is right.
 
My belief is that the jumping is the LEAST hazardous part of the operation.
 
WDD said:
In addition to the comments about the plane spinning - Skydivers are allowed to drop through clouds? I would have thought not.
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Skydivers call it "industrial haze"
 
I felt the same way....was at the old Tamp Executive airport (X41) one day just getting back from doing some patterns or something and bumped into an acquaintance of mine who was just finishing up a flight lesson. I knew the guy from a SCUBA diving club, had no idea he was flying. Anyway, he was on his way to do some jumps over at ZPH...he was a skydiver...and invited me along to watch. Next thing I know, I'm signing the papers and riding the jump plane up...looking at the crowd in the back of that plane and thinking..."this is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life".... It probably was...but it was also a blast. I thought several times about following through and getting some training, but never did....
 
Mikey B said:
Jumped once, lived to tell. Saw little incremental value in doing it again!
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I did, too, I could definitely get into doing it again and again... but I have too many other things to occupy my time. Skydiving isn't just a hobby, it's a lifestyle.
 
I had a college professor who was Former Army Airborne. He said they use to walk two at a time to back of the C-130 every minute or so. When everyone was in the back, they would all run to the front at the same. He said after he got out of the service and got his pilot’s license he realized how effing stupid it was, but it was great fun as an 18 year old. :)
 
francisco collazos said:
If you watch the video there is someone that gets thrown out of the plane at 1:43
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This is from the Youtube comments. Jana reported that she was the one that was thrown out ...


Jana Niemoller
7 hours ago
That would be me. I did not bail i was thrown around the aircraft as i had nothing to hold on to, and ended up on the floor by the door, i then tried to get up in the initial recovery, and got thrown out the door.​
 
Good thing she had the chute and knew how to use it! From the video, it appears she would have landed a loooooonnnnngggg way from where everyone else touched down.
 
GaryM said:
Good thing she had the chute and knew how to use it! From the video, it appears she would have landed a loooooonnnnngggg way from where everyone else touched down.
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The regs require everybody on a skydiving flight to wear a parachute, including the pilot and any non jumping observers.

Pile them on the outside...

nofrillsflight.jpg
 
Dana said:
The regs require everybody on a skydiving flight to wear a parachute, including the pilot and any non jumping observers.
nofrillsflight.jpg
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I rode right seat on a twin Otter at Sebastian. Neither me or the pilot wore chutes.

I was looking back when the jumper were exiting.

2008-01-29-IMG_5893.jpg


After the last one was out, I turned around and this is what I saw looking straight out the windshield.

2008-01-29-IMG_5894.jpg


The skydiving operation at my home field had Caravans, King Airs and an old Cessna. The only time I ever saw a pilot wearing a chute was in the Cessna. I asked and was told that non-jumpers only have to wear a chute if it's a single engine piston.

I have no idea if that correct or not.
 
donjohnston said:
I rode right seat on a twin Otter at Sebastian. Neither me or the pilot wore chutes.
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Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that that used to be the rule but I can't find it, perhaps it's changed?
 
WDD said:
In addition to the comments about the plane spinning - Skydivers are allowed to drop through clouds? I would have thought not.
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True, but some DZs look the other way. I have done it (skydive) thru clouds many times. I can say I've skydived IFR :cool:
 
Doug Reid said:
I am always a bit suspicious when the entire event is recorded by a jumper so well...
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Yeah, but it seemed that he was the designated video guy, as he went in later to video the formations they were doing. The synchronized swimmers were probably perturbed that he was so late getting in to shoot their formations. I figured someone would wave that off, ixnay on the ballet, we almost died.

I was wondering what would have happened if the pilot had recovered quicker(wings level right under them!), he might have picked a few of them back up.
 
Doug Reid said:
I am always a bit suspicious when the entire event is recorded by a jumper so well...
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On a typical skydive, if there are 12 jumpers, there are 17 go-pros and a couple professional photogs. It's a very video friendly sport.
 
Dana said:
I did, too, I could definitely get into doing it again and again... but I have too many other things to occupy my time. Skydiving isn't just a hobby, it's a lifestyle.
Click to expand...

I did 10 jumps. I wish I'd devoted a few years to skydiving, although I'm not sure where I would have squeezed that in. Now I'm too old. Occasionally a skydiver will have a hard opening. For younger people, they wind up being very sore for a few weeks. When you're past 60, the result may very well be a dissected aorta.
 
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