Aircraft ownership question

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1anG

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1anG
If my father purchased a plane as a non pilot and I fly it, what kind of issues arrise from that in terms of FAA other legal insurance issues.

Other hypothetical, if I co-sign loan with him and we partner the airplane, but he has no pilot's license what issues would arise from that?
 
Depends on the type of flying.

Flying it for your personal instruction?

Flying it to transport a family member to a place you have a common purpose to be at other than the trip itself?

Flying him to places for business or pleasure where you have no common reason to be there, other than you wanted to fly?

There’s regulations for all of the above.

As a Private pilot you may travel to a destination with someone else for a common purpose at the destination and split the pro-data cost of the flight. Who owns the aircraft is irrelevant.

As a Commercial pilot you may be able to do other things including being hired by him to fly him somewhere. He has specific requirements as the provider of the aircraft for maintenance, etc.

“May” in the above statements indicates that not nearly enough information was provided about the purpose of the flights to give a complete answer.
 
It would mostly if not exclusive used by myself for trips and for time building. I don't know if that changes anything.

This area of lefailitt always caused an issue for me
 
How old are you and are you paying the operating costs of the flights?

Reason: If you’re a minor, your parents paying the bill is definitely not the sort of violation the FAA is looking for. If not a minor, you may want to set up an arrangement where dad pays you for whatever he pays you for (not flying) and you pay the operating costs, to be perfectly legal.

As long as nobody is paying you to fly anywhere as a Private pilot certificate holder, you’re fine. (There are exceptions to this, also. They probably don’t apply to your description of your flights.)

Your flight instructor will go over all of these regulations and you’ll be tested on them both in written form and verbally at your practical test for your certificate long before you’ll need to worry about it much.

You said you weren’t concerned about insurance but your dad and the instructor will have to have a talk about insurance for the instructor if you don’t already hold a Private certificate and require training. The instructor will have significant liability teaching you in a privately owned aircraft.
 
Think about all of the wealthy individuals who purchase aircraft and have other people (pilots) fly them for them. If you have the money, no body will care who is doing the buying.
 
1anG said:
what kind of issues arrise from that in terms of FAA other legal insurance issues.
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The terms "owner" and "operator" are used through out the FARs and in some insurance issues unless the term "policy holder" is used. But your question can not be easily answered as there are number of different answers possible depending on how the aircraft is used. There are several FAA documents out there that define aircraft ownership as well as operating an aircraft. Perhaps more specific questions on your exact concerns can get you specific answers.

But in general there are a number of aircraft owners who are not pilots just as there are a number of pilots who are not owners regardless if you're related.
 
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insurance never asked me who paid for the plane
 
Out of all the concerns and things to research and think about, this is soooooooooooo far down the list.

Long story short, if the insurance co is cool listing anyone who is going to fly it, don’t sweat it.
 
What if dad formed an LLC to own the plane and the son was listed as a member of that LLC? Then the son would be part owner and you avoid all these issues. Right?

Assuming the son is not a minor.
 
Schokie said:
What if dad formed an LLC to own the plane and the son was listed as a member of that LLC? Then the son would be part owner and you avoid all these issues. Right?

Assuming the son is not a minor.
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What issues? There's no law that says you have to be a pilot to own a plane. And there's no law that says you have to own the plane in order to fly it. I'm in agreement with @James331
 
Just an observation. Maybe it's the internet age & all these bulletin boards but it seems people tend to over-analyze everything.

When I was in High School in the 70's my father (non-pilot) bought a brand-new Cherokee Warrior. He bought it so I could finish out all my ratings (which I did) & fly him around buying cattle. I built a lot of hours & never gave one thought to the FAA or legality of such activity. I don't believe we did anything wrong.

Oh the good ol' days.
 
Be very careful about flying other people especially if you approach them and or to support a business. Just because you hold a commercial or ATP does not mean you can charge someone to transport them from A to B. It is very easy to innocently paint yourself into a corner over the issues of are you providing air taxi service which requires a 135 certificate.

Sharing the cost of a flight has some interesting ramifications and interpretations from the feds. One of the big issues re cost sharing is the pilot must pay a prorated part of the cost. So you and 2 buds rent a 172 to go do the $100 hamburger run. Total cost of the airplane was $300.00 The feds expect you to pay at least $100. For years the feds were not interested in this activity but about 6 years ago they got really fired up about it. For some reason they were really on the warpath especially with CAP and several charities.
 
Everyone is thinking 61.113, but this is a family member. Pretty sure that if that’s the limit of who you’re flying, it can’t be holding out.

Observe the pro rata cost sharing rules when you fly together and you’re fine. And even then, you’re still probably fine, it’s your father. Nobody cares and it would be very difficult to make the case of compensation in a family situation.
 
This is similar to my situation. My Dad owns a plane that I can fly whenever I choose. I just pay for my own gas and oil, and chip in with mx costs.
 
:yeahthat: Me too. Nobody will ask or care.
 
The are no FAA requirements or restrictions on aircraft ownership. If you can afford it, you can buy it no matter who you are. Who can then operate it depends on the nature of the operation but for recreational part 91 personal flying, it doesn't much matter whose name is on the bill of sale.
 
Thanks for the input everyone, I was just concerned a little because I intend to make this my career and I don't want to trip on anything that could risk it
 
1anG said:
I don't want to trip on anything
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FYI: The only item not mentioned outside of ownership is aircraft registration. There are US citizenship requirements in order to register an aircraft. If by chance you or your father do not meet those requirements then you would need to take an alternate path to get the aircraft registered.
 
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