Air Tours Banned at FFA

[HPNFlyGirl]

I remember taking off on an air tour with my dad (in the back seat...had to fight him for it heh) from FFA when I was 12. Good thing is...I am a pilot and can fly myself to FFA. Did that last weekend as a matter of fact.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=state&id=5438233

 

[JohnR]

First Flight, Kill Devil Hills, for us non-locals who aren't interested in looking up FFA or are too lazy to click on the link.

Doesn't make sense - no "airplane tours", meaning commercial operations? But can a Sport Pilot take off in his J-3 and fly his buddy around the area? Isn't that a "tour"? End the more rigorously trained activity and allow the lesser? What is an "airplane tour"?

Silly government.

 

[wsuffa]

I think this paragraph says it all:

In November, the Park Service held a public meeting to gather comments on restarting air tours. Most comments opposed the tours, the park service statement said, because of concerns about three schools and increased residential development in the area.

nibble, nibble, nibble and soon the whole cake is gone.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Yeah...sucks.

 

[kevin47881]

O.K. it makes sense now. At first I was wondering how air tours and Future Farmers of America went together.
​

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

O.K. it makes sense now. At first I was wondering how air tours and Future Farmers of America went together.​

When I 1st met some FFA people...I was like...so....how does the Federal Aviation Admin. help you guys with farming? Ok ok ok so I was only 12.

FFA is First Flight Airport Kevin.

 

[poadeleted20]

Doesn't make sense - no "airplane tours", meaning commercial operations?

Yes.

But can a Sport Pilot take off in his J-3 and fly his buddy around the area?

Yes, as long as no money changes hand.

Isn't that a "tour"?

Perhaps, but it is not a "commercial air tour" within the meaning of 14 CFR Part 119.

End the more rigorously trained activity and allow the lesser?

They regulate what they can. They can't stop folks from making private flights into/out of FFA.

What is an "airplane tour"?

Dunno, but per 14 CFR 119.3:

Commercial air tour means a flight conducted for compensation or hire in an airplane or helicopter where a purpose of the flight is sightseeing. The FAA may consider the following factors in determining whether a flight is a commercial air tour:
(1) Whether there was a holding out to the public of willingness to conduct a sightseeing flight for compensation or hire;
(2) Whether the person offering the flight provided a narrative that referred to areas or points of interest on the surface below the route of the flight;
(3) The area of operation;
(4) How often the person offering the flight conducts such flights;
(5) The route of flight;
(6) The inclusion of sightseeing flights as part of any travel arrangement package;
(7) Whether the flight in question would have been canceled based on poor visibility of the surface below the route of the flight; and
(8) Any other factors that the FAA considers appropriate.

 

[Diana]

At first I was wondering how air tours and Future Farmers of America went together.

Kevin, I live in a farming community and I was thinking the same thing.

 

[tonycondon]

wow a crash in which everyone lives inspires the park service to eliminate airplane rides at the site of the first airplane ride. makes sense to me

 

[alaskaflyer]

Some clarification:

The headline and some of the language in the article is misleading, in my opinion.

ALL commercial activity in National Park Service units is not allowed (i.e. illegal) unless specifically permitted. Folks seeking permits to do this or that - including providing air tours - go through a vetting process to ensure they will serve the public appropriately.

Crashing an airplane is not serving the public appropriately.

The park service does not rely on the FARs quoted by Ron to define "air tours" though it is one more thing to consider. The Service has it's own definition of "commercial" which frankly is much more stringent. It doesn't have to be a tour. Delivery, air taxi, charter...they are all illegal unless specifically permitted.

The Service suspended the permit(s) of what was doubtless only one operator that was ever permitted to do air tours out of that airport after the accident. If you want to call suspending a privilege a "banning" then so be it.

At least the Service went through a public process....they didn't have to in this case.

Finally, all this only matters if they land in the park. FFA is in the park, on park service managed lands, and the park is the "airport manager" as far as I know. I know that airstrip and I'm frankly surprised they ever allowed tours in and out of there. And IMHO IF the landlord was anyone else BESIDES the National Park Service that airstrip and everything around it would have become summer rentals and gas stations years ago.

Now, do I agree that the the comments about schools and residential development should have been the basis for the decision? NO! Should have built your house somewhere else if you are worried about those little planes. Do I always agree with the NPS position on closing airports or airstrips? Usually not. I view this as an entirely different issue.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Ah, the other side of the story...

NPS DECISION ON WRIGHT BROTHERS AIRPLANE TOURS

Date: June 28, 2007
Contact: Outer Banks Group, (252) 473-2111


[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Late in 2006, the National Park Service (NPS) announced that it was considering whether or not to reinstitute a commercial airplane tour service (sometimes referred to as a "concession") for park visitors at Wright Brothers National Memorial (WRBR). An airplane tour service was first established at the Memorial in 1982 and ran continuously thereafter until it was suspended following a June 7, 2001 concession airplane crash in which passengers were injured. Following the five year suspension of the service, Superintendent Mike Murray concluded that changing conditions at the site and in the surrounding community required the park to reevaluate the necessity and appropriateness of an airplane tour based within the park’s boundary.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]NPS concessions management law, regulations and policies require that the development of visitor services in park areas must be limited to those as are necessary and appropriate for public use and enjoyment of the park area in which they are located. Per Section 10.2.2 of NPS Management Policies 2006, a decision to authorize a park concession will be based on a determination that the facility or service:[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Is consistent with enabling legislation, and[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Is complementary to a park’s mission and visitor service objectives, and[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Is necessary and appropriate for the public use and enjoyment of the park in which it is located, and[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Is not and cannot be provided outside park boundaries, and[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Will not cause unacceptable impacts.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]To seek public input on the issue, NPS held a public meeting at Wright Brothers National Memorial on November 16, 2006 and provided several methods for the public to submit comments to park management from November 15 through December 15, 2006. The majority of comments opposed resuming airplane tours and expressed concerns related to the three school complexes and the increased residential development built since 2001 and adjacent to the airstrip.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Multiple factors were considered in the making the decision, including the fact that airplane tours are available outside the park at the Dare County Regional Airport. "After carefully reviewing the applicable laws, regulations, policies and plans, as well as the public comments, we have concluded that providing airplane tours originating at Wright Brothers National Memorial is not necessary or in any way required to accomplish the park’s mission or visitor service objectives. The mission relates specifically to the commemoration of the Wright Brothers achievements in aviation," said Superintendent Murray. "The National Park Service has decided to not resume airplane tours at the National Memorial."[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]The WRBR airstrip and visiting pilot’s facility will continue to provide access for private pilots and their passengers to visit the National Memorial.[/FONT]

By the way, if you've never been, you should go!

 

[NC Pilot]

They regulate what they can. They can't stop folks from making private flights into/out of FFA.

Until they decide to bulldoze the airport, which they have threatened to do a couple times at Ocracoke and Hatteras.

Let a private plane crash near a school or house coming out of FFA and this could well happen.

 

[silver-eagle]

That could happen anywhere, not just FAA. You can take note that the same isn't true when there's an automobile accident. FFA is 1 block away from a most horrible auto accident (6 family members killed). Not one auto, truck, or bus got banned or suspended.
Everyone uses autos, buses, and trucks. Only the privileged few use planes.
Oh, and the speed on the road passing the park is 55 miles per hour. Hell, they didn't even bother to slow people down!

 

[alaskaflyer]

I'm not sure what your point is. Despite the idiotic public comments they didn't reinstitute commercial operations at the airport not because of the accident, but because of something else entirely.

And the highway isn't in the park.

 

[JohnR]

I'm not sure what your point is. Despite the idiotic public comments they didn't reinstitute commercial operations at the airport not because of the accident, but because of something else entirely.

And the highway isn't in the park.

I understand that in an academic sense, but if you apply this:

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif] "After carefully reviewing the applicable laws, regulations, policies and plans, as well as the public comments, we have concluded that providing airplane tours originating at Wright Brothers National Memorial is not necessary or in any way required to accomplish the park’s mission or visitor service objectives.[/FONT]

to parks in general, one could say that the government providing parks at all is not necessary.

And, thanks for the inside scoop on this - your info uncovered some true journalistic malpractice. Makes ya' wonder what other news stories are as mis-reported.

 

[Everskyward]

ALL commercial activity in National Park Service units is not allowed (i.e. illegal) unless specifically permitted. Folks seeking permits to do this or that - including providing air tours - go through a vetting process to ensure they will serve the public appropriately.

Interesting that Jackson Hole Airport is also located within a National Park Service unit, Grand Teton National Park, and has all kinds of commercial service including many airline flights. Granted, some of the passengers are enroute to Grand Teton and Yellowstone National parks, but the airport also serves the ski areas and the town of Jackson. My understanding is that the airport has a lease from the NPS. I'm sure that some people would like to see it go away, but I don't see that happening soon. How would Dick Cheney get to his home?

 

[Steve]

Doesn't the NPS rely on user fees to meet its budget?

Could it be the airlines have previously overlooked this competitor for the flying dollar and made a back room deal with the DoI who mindlessly dismissed this potential cash cow?

There is more to this than meets the eye. Someone was told to kick the air tour out. By someone that doesn't understand the history of aviation and the prominence of this facility in it. The Wright brothers were engaged in developing a commercial venture. How ironic that they would be disenfranchised by "modern" policy at the very place they made aviation practical.

 

[flybill7]

I had an engine problem at FFA seven years ago and the Air Tour people were very helpful in arranging for an A&P to drive out from Dare Co. and fix it. It's a shame to see them banned from providing a nice service.

What is happening in this country when they can't offer air tours at the birthplace of flight????

 

[TMetzinger]

And of course, if you want a aerial sightseeing tour of the area, including the monument, you can get one at Dare County.

 

[JohnR]

And of course, if you want a aerial sightseeing tour of the area, including the monument, you can get one at Dare County.

Ah, HAH! It was a conspiracy! They probably bribed the government to decide their way. The filthy machinations of corporate greed stepped on the little guy once again!!

 

[tonycondon]

EAA and AOPA need to throw some money at this. Offer free rides or something. No airplane rides at the birthplace of flight is just wrong wrong wrong.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Interesting that Jackson Hole Airport is also located within a National Park Service unit, Grand Teton National Park, and has all kinds of commercial service including many airline flights. Granted, some of the passengers are enroute to Grand Teton and Yellowstone National parks, but the airport also serves the ski areas and the town of Jackson. My understanding is that the airport has a lease from the NPS. I'm sure that some people would like to see it go away, but I don't see that happening soon. How would Dick Cheney get to his home?

I'm not sure of the legislative history of the Jackson Hole Airport, but what you say is true. It is also true that Congress can generally do what it wants.

 

[silver-eagle]

I'm not sure what your point is. Despite the idiotic public comments they didn't reinstitute commercial operations at the airport not because of the accident, but because of something else entirely.

And the highway isn't in the park.

The point was about the previous post:

.... Let a private plane crash near a school or house coming out of FFA and this could well happen.

They may say their decision wasn't based on the dopey comments of the neighbors, but more than one negative aviation opinion has been. And how many accidents did it take before the park service nixed this guy?
No. They won't shut down the highways or slow the speeds down when multi-fatals are a common occurrence (and in that area, there's been more than their fair share) but let one damned plane fall from the sky and its "Let's close the airport because flying is so dangerous."
Here's a question... What stops an air service from flying people from Dare County to FFA? As I read it, they only stopped the flights from originating there.

 

[alaskaflyer]

The point was about the previous post: They may say their decision wasn't based on the dopey comments of the neighbors, but more than one negative aviation opinion has been. And how many accidents did it take before the park service nixed this guy?
No. They won't shut down the highways or slow the speeds down when multi-fatals are a common occurrence (and in that area, there's been more than their fair share) but let one damned plane fall from the sky and its "Let's close the airport because flying is so dangerous."
Here's a question... What stops an air service from flying people from Dare County to FFA? As I read it, they only stopped the flights from originating there.

There is a general regulation that stops commercial flights from landing there. Like I said before the only reason they were allowed in the beginning (since it became a monument anyways) was by permit.

§ 5.3 Business operations.

Engaging in or soliciting any business in park areas, except in accordance with the provisions of a permit, contract, or other written agreement with the United States, except as such may be specifically authorized under special regulations applicable to a park area, is prohibited.

You don't get any more simple than that