Air Force agrees to change -Andreini Crash

This has to be one of the weakest probable cause findings the NTSB has ever come up with.

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot’s failure to maintain clearance from the runway during a low-level aerobatic maneuver due to his impairment by an over-the-counter antihistamine."
 
Taxpayers pay a high-risk performer’s family for his error? That’s disappointing.
 
What happened here was a travesty. Normal requirement for ARFF response at a commercial airport is 3 minutes max, it took the Air Force crews 5 minutes to reach the crash scene. During the airshow, the trucks were parked in their station miles away, and the crews weren't even in the station. They were out in the crowd taking pictures and enjoying the show. Beyond that, the crews obeyed a speed limit of 25 or 35 mph (can't remember) on the taxiway instead of going full speed. ICAS recommends and most performers now require that ARFF crews be dressed, and prepositioned near the flight line to reduce the response time.

Andreini survived the initial crash unharmed. He was speaking to his crew on the radio saying I'm ok, just can't get out. The fire didn't even start for almost a minute. The entire accident from impact to fire suppression was filmed and is on Youtube. If the ARFF crews had been properly positioned and responded immediately, the results would have been far different.

*I should add, I work in the ARFF field. This accident has become a case study for the industry, in what not to do.
 
"The crowd watched, prayed, and waited for fire trucks to arrive. Some bystanders wanted to rush to the plane to help, but the announcer warned everyone to stay back and "let the firefighters do their job."

But the firefighters didn't do their job. By the time the trucks showed up, almost 5 minutes had passed."

Exact same thing as a T-18 crash on runway 18 at Oshkosh in '78 (N18FK). The two guys survived the impact and were on the radio with the tower - fuel spilled, caught fire, by the time the truck arrived, it was too late. Some people tried to move the T-18, but most were held back by crowd control.
 
I believe the ICAS standard is 60 second response time. At the local airshow, we have three fire engines (including one of the big Oshkosh airport CFR engines) positioned - one near the announcer/air boss stand, and one at each end on opposite sides of the runway. All firefighters are in turnouts and ready to roll. The guys actually are ahooting for 30 seconds. Additionally, there is a manned forklift next to the center fire engine. That was added after a crash around 15 years ago, in case a plane wound up inverted. A few days before the airshow, there is a drill that includes responding to a crash.

Eddie Andreini's death was horrible. The fire department fell flat on their face - they were almost totally unready to respond.
 
3393RP said:
This has to be one of the weakest probable cause findings the NTSB has ever come up with.

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot’s failure to maintain clearance from the runway during a low-level aerobatic maneuver due to his impairment by an over-the-counter antihistamine."
Click to expand...

The report says he probably crashed due to Dramamine in his system? Is that real? I guess that meant he fell asleep? As that’s the main side effect of it right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
ateamer said:
I believe the ICAS standard is 60 second response time. At the local airshow, we have three fire engines (including one of the big Oshkosh airport CFR engines) positioned - one near the announcer/air boss stand, and one at each end on opposite sides of the runway. All firefighters are in turnouts and ready to roll. The guys actually are ahooting for 30 seconds. Additionally, there is a manned forklift next to the center fire engine. That was added after a crash around 15 years ago, in case a plane wound up inverted. A few days before the airshow, there is a drill that includes responding to a crash.

Eddie Andreini's death was horrible. The fire department fell flat on their face - they were almost totally unready to respond.
Click to expand...

We were set up the same for our last airshow, which was the year after this accident. Our ARFF facility is mid-field, and we had rapid response vehicles at each end of the runway, one at the station, plus our large Oshkosh, a city fire truck, and ambulance at the station. All rapid response vehicles were manned and running during all performances, while the station crews were in gear sitting in lawn chairs next to their equipment ready to go. During testing we could reach any point on the show runway in about 40 seconds, with all crews on scene in about 60-70 seconds. We also did a meet and greet and familiarization with all the performers and their aircraft prior to the show. Fortunately our services were not required.
 
3393RP said:
This has to be one of the weakest probable cause findings the NTSB has ever come up with.

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot’s failure to maintain clearance from the runway during a low-level aerobatic maneuver due to his impairment by an over-the-counter antihistamine."
Click to expand...

Part of a relentless campaign by the NTSB to increase the number of 'medical impairment' crashes.
 
I believe the AF made the argument that they ccouldnt leave the rest of the base without fire protection by putting all their assets in one place on the show side of the field. If that is the case, they should have arranged for mutual aid, either to cover the show or to cover their other responsibilities.
 
Peter Anderson said:
The report says he probably crashed due to Dramamine in his system? Is that real? I guess that meant he fell asleep? As that’s the main side effect of it right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

weilke said:
Part of a relentless campaign by the NTSB to increase the number of 'medical impairment' crashes.
Click to expand...

Agree. There’s a lot of questionable “causes” that assume people were impaired. Scientifically yes, impaired. But there’s levels. Saying without question that a pilot who holds a low level waiver and has been doing it a long time would be unable to perform their duties, kinda highlights the problem.

Any other pilot in a spamcan you might let it slide and they get their stats they want. But you feel a little icky accepting it as a flatly stated “cause” for someone that qualified.
 
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