Age 75+ Insurance

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Age related 75+ insurance for Twin, retract, tailwheel, seaplane, helicopter, did I leave out anything, probably why their are so many Mooney's for sale now. Is this the end of the line for old pilots, can't find insurance so forced to sell their Mooney aircraft and change to a single engine fixed gear simple not complex type aircraft. Is any study that older pilots cost more in insurance loss than younger pilots, or just what the industry has decided to weed out.
 
The insurance companies don’t totally refuse to insure older pilots they just price the pilots out of the market. And add restrictions that are not realistic for pilots to continue flying. I can understand them requiring a current physical.
 
It sucks but actuary tables generally don't lie. Worst case, LSA or C150 (I'm guessing a C150 is likely the cheapest aircraft to insure for pilots 70+) or forgo insurance...
 
Yeah tell me about it. About a 400% increase for me from 74 to 75. Yep, 400%. 5,500 hours TT, 300 hours annually, ATP, 2nd class medical, annual sim training in type, they don’t f*#@*%g care. I guess that’s supply and demand, but it sure isn’t fair.
 
idahoflier said:
It sucks but actuary tables generally don't lie. Worst case, LSA or C150 (I'm guessing a C150 is likely the cheapest aircraft to insure for pilots 70+) or forgo insurance...
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I've asked if anyone has seen any data but.....crickets. Leaves a person wondering.
 
So drop the hull coverage and carry liability only.

- If you crash and survive, it's probably time to give up flying anyway and you'll just sell whatever's left of the plane for parts or scrap.
- If you crash and don't survive, you won't care anymore.
 
Half Fast said:
So drop the hull coverage and carry liability only.

- If you crash and survive, it's probably time to give up flying anyway and you'll just sell whatever's left of the plane for parts or scrap.
- If you crash and don't survive, you won't care anymore.
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It’s a consideration.

With no claims in 16 years, I’ve watched the insurance on my Sky Arrow go from just over $800 to about $1,400 last year. I’ll be 75 by my next renewal, and if it takes a big jump I may consider my options.
 
FastEddieB said:
It’s a consideration.

With no claims in 16 years, I’ve watched the insurance on my Sky Arrow go from just over $800 to about $1,400 last year. I’ll be 75 by my next renewal, and if it takes a big jump I may consider my options.
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For insuring an LSA, and considering you're very experienced and a CFI, that's a bit silly. I'm paying less than that to insure my Mouse, and I'm a VFR-only private pilot who's still a little bit shy of 300 hours.

Does car insurance get a similar bump for age 75?
 
I mean couldn’t we make a POA crypto insurance policy that we all pay into to cover claims?
 
There’s old pilots and insured pilots but there’s no old insured pilots. :)

sucks. Being 56 I’m not too far from that day. Plan on enjoying the journe.
 
When I was learning to drive dad always said ... "if you gotta hit something, hit something cheap." But I do understand that sometimes that's not an option.
 
Lance F said:
Yeah tell me about it. About a 400% increase for me from 74 to 75. Yep, 400%. 5,500 hours TT, 300 hours annually, ATP, 2nd class medical, annual sim training in type, they don’t f*#@*%g care. I guess that’s supply and demand, but it sure isn’t fair.
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I still don’t believe that you’re 75. I’ll write a letter to your insurance company. :)
 
I know two pilots in their 80s. When they received shocking insurance premium increases, and couldn't find better rates in the market place, they just flew without insurance. Another one picked up a liability policy, which was almost as expensive, but not quite.
 
Racerx said:
www.aopa.org

Older pilots report negative treatment from insurance companies

An AOPA survey sent to more than 30,000 pilots and aircraft owners revealed a disconnect between proficiency and insurance premiums. AOPA urged the insurance industry to stop equating age with risk in light of evidence to the contrary.
www.aopa.org
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What’s interesting to me is that the article mentions proficiency, but doesn’t address it. A pilot can hold a medical, train annually, and fly regularly without being proficient. Unfortunately, the insurance companies really have no way to determine a pilot’s actual proficiency.

The article also talks about accidents and incidents, but not claims. Claims are really all the insurance companies care about.

I’m not saying any of this does or doesn’t change at age 75, but if you're going to argue with the insurance companies, you need to address the issues they care about.
 
I for one don't blame the insurance companies...nearly every time I fly, I hear or see older pilots that don't belong in the sky mishearing/misunderstanding instructions, or worse. Do a search of youtube, and you can find dozens of examples...We've got to do a better job of weeding those guys out.
 
Half Fast said:
So drop the hull coverage and carry liability only.

- If you crash and survive, it's probably time to give up flying anyway and you'll just sell whatever's left of the plane for parts or scrap.
- If you crash and don't survive, you won't care anymore.
Click to expand...

If you crash, I assume insurance arranges and pays for the removal. I imagine you might be in the hospital and not be able to handle it yourself?

I wonder how much that would cost? Is there companies that specialize in this? I would assume they would try to salvage and sell the surviving pieces and parts?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I've asked if anyone has seen any data but.....crickets. Leaves a person wondering.
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I would guess that the insurance companies would be the only ones who have claims statistics, and I doubt they’re sharing them. But they’re in the business of making money. Why would they eliminate an income source that was statistically no more risk?
 
MauleSkinner said:
I would guess that the insurance companies would be the only ones who have claims statistics, and I doubt they’re sharing them. But they’re in the business of making money. Why would they eliminate an income source that was statistically no more risk?
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I fear insurance company age-discrimination is not based on facts, but is simply an income-generating tool.
I would entertain being wrong; we just don't know.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I fear insurance company age-discrimination is not based on facts, but is simply an income-generating tool.
I would entertain being wrong; we just don't know.
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The problem isn't isolated to increased rates...older pilots often can't even get a quote.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The problem isn't isolated to increased rates...older pilots often can't even get a quote.
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I realize that - and I wonder if that is an unjustified action. If the underwriters have that info, I have not seen it - and I don't think the FAA does.
 
I had to switch to Avemco at 75. Insurance is expensive for my Bonanza, but not totally out of line, effectively +50% over what I was accustomed to before 75. I have 5500+ hours with no accidents or violations, Commercial, CFI, CFII, MEI. I was quoted by two other insurance companies, one was exorbitant and the other had restrictions that I could not live with, in particular, I would have needed to always have a safety pilot. Avemco had conditions, but they were acceptable. I have to get an annual IPC/Flight Review and I have to have an annual medical. In my case, I use Basic Med which requires taking an online course every two years and a doctor physical every four years. With Avemco, I do the course every year, and get a physical every year, the latter which I do anyway and is free with my Advantage Medicare plan.
 
I’m going to modify my earlier statement…the actuaries may or may not have statistical data. Pilots in general have issues getting health insurance overage that covers aviation activities, as well as life insurance. My understanding is that this isn’t because of increased risk, but primarily because the sample size is so small that it’s not cost effective to do the analysis. That could be the issue we’re seeing with aging pilots and airplane coverage.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
If you crash, I assume insurance arranges and pays for the removal. I imagine you might be in the hospital and not be able to handle it yourself?

I wonder how much that would cost? Is there companies that specialize in this? I would assume they would try to salvage and sell the surviving pieces and parts?
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Two guys and a truck
 
77 years young and transitioned to a c150. Not having problems with insurance yet. As you age the insurance companies recommend fly frequently,stay with the same insurer,get regular physicals .some recommend getting an annual flight review. Good luck
 
Cessna 414. 75 years old. Avemco won’t even return a call. (Even though I have a policy with them for my flight instruction.) It’s called ageism. I wish it weren’t legal.
 
if you crash... insurance arranges and pays for the removal. {are} there companies that specialize in this?
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indeed there are. The insurers know who to call in every part of the world. I wonder if AOPA maintains a list like that? Or, outdoor inquire of insurers...

Paul
 
Someone told me; put the plane in a family member’s name (they were talking about their pilot-son); many OPW’s just mention TIT, not age.
I figure the ins co’s would see through that, but like the outside the box thinking.
Really no need to go into the many obvious downsides of this.
 
Does car insurance get more expensive above 75?
 
Believe it or not.....they are telling me that the reason for the rate increases are due to the increased hull values and/or repair costs. :oops:
 
Definitely not a fan of ageist pricing as long as the person is staying on top of their currency with flying.
Where people above are citing flying 300+h per year at 75, that feels like more than enough to demonstrate that you're doing what's necessary to stay sharp -- even if you're insuring a HP retractable twin.
It's the guys clinging to their hp/retracts into their 70s and going up for a handful of hamburger runs per year that would worry me as an underwriter. It's just not enough time at the controls per year to show me that you're serious about staying on top of your game.

Then again, I'd probably make that argument with any age group!
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Believe it or not.....they are telling me that the reason for the rate increases are due to the increased hull values and/or repair costs. :oops:
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BS

I have doubled my hull coverage over the last couple of years without my premium going up at all.
 
Lance F said:
Cessna 414. 75 years old. Avemco won’t even return a call. (Even though I have a policy with them for my flight instruction.) It’s called ageism. I wish it weren’t legal.
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Technically it’s not. Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights act states that no business may turn away a customer based on several protected statuses, of which age is one.

IANAL, but I would probably consult someone who is. Who knows, maybe you have a discrimination case and could end up with an even nicer fancier plane.
 
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Half Fast said:
BS

I have doubled my hull coverage over the last couple of years without my premium going up at all.
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Last year I raised my hull coverage about 20%, and my insurance went up 60%...and I use an independent broker, so he does my "shopping around" for me...and no other significant changes.
 
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