Aerobatic/spin instruction for presolo student pilot

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rpayne88

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rpayne88
After a five year hiatus, I'm finally working on my PPL again. (First the hand-me-down truck my dad gave me died, prompting a newer car purchase that needed to be paid off. Then my parents kicked me out.)

Anyway, before I solo, I'd like to get both upset attitude and actual spin training. (Spin awareness, avoidence, and plenty of practice recovering from various types of spins.) Additionally, I'd like to at least give aerobatics a try, despite being a bit nervous about it, in order to become a bit more comfortable in the air. I just need to find an instructor.

I live in central MD. According to the IAC, I have Aerosport Limited, Dent-Air, Flying Lemur Inc, Kraemer Aviation Services, and Piedmont Flight Center. Aerosport's website is throwing a 403 error, so I'm guessing they're out of buisness. Dent-Air, run by Bill Finagin, seems to be world renown, but a Pitts is probably a bit much for a borderline broke/timid presolo student. Flying Lemur, part of DC Aerobatics, has not been doing instruction ever since COVID hit and has been nonresponsive as far as me asking if they are willing to offer instruction to a fully vaccinated student. Kraemer's website does not mention aerobatics or spins at all. And Piedmont is in extreme southern MD, over two hours from my house. Does anyone know of any other instructors in my area and how much I can expect to spend?
 
I think you should bite the bullet and go with Bill Finagin. It's expensive but worth it. No better plane to learn spins in than the Pitts.
 
Salty said:
Nothing wrong with this at all, but it’s much safer and easier to avoid stalls and spins than recover from them. ;)
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I'm not denying that. But if it happens, its best if you've already done a few with an instructor.

Its like first aid. Its best to avoid getting hurt, but when it happens, it helps to know what to do.
 
rpayne88 said:
I'm not denying that. But if it happens, its best if you've already done a few with an instructor.

Its like first aid. Its best to avoid getting hurt, but when it happens, it helps to know what to do.
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I don’t know how to sew my arm back on if I cut it off, but I’d rather put my time and energy into not getting it cut off than learning how to sew it back on.

Of course, I’m being silly, but that doesn’t make it less true.

Spin recovery is unlikely to be of any use to you in your initial solo flight. If you spin it in the pattern, I doubt spin recovery is going to help you a whole lot, just as knowing how to sew my arm back on is unlikely to help me if it gets cut off.
 
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Salty said:
Spin recovery is unlikely to be of any use to you in your initial solo flight. If you spin it in the pattern, I doubt spin recovery is going to help you a whole lot, just as knowing how to sew my arm back on is unlikely to help me if it gets cut off.
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When you learned how to reattach your arm did they also teach how to recognize when you were close to severing it? If it helps build confidence then it can be useful, regardless of whether or not you actually have to apply the knowledge of the avoidable end-state.

Nauga,
and the difference between departing the pattern and departing IN the pattern
 
nauga said:
When you learned how to reattach your arm did they also teach how to recognize when you were close to severing it? If it helps build confidence then it can be useful, regardless of whether or not you actually have to apply the knowledge of the avoidable end-state.

Nauga,
and the difference between departing the pattern and departing IN the pattern
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I don't disagree. But you can learn that without doing spin training. That's all I was saying. Again, I'm not arguing against getting the training. But initial training is complicated enough IMO without trying to become an expert in advanced topics before you've even solo'd. JMO

I mean, shouldn't he get tailwheel and high performance training before soloing also, and some glider time? Probably should learn how to plan a cross country as well. All of those provide useful skills, but you don't need them all in order to do an initial solo. That's all I'm saying.
 
Salty said:
I mean, shouldn't he get tailwheel and high performance training before soloing also, and some glider time?
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I wouldn't put HP in the same category, but pilots who start in tailwheel or gliders are much better off in the long run, IMO. So yes.
 
OP, don't listen to the naysayers who say there's no value to spin/acro training. Those who say this generally have little or no experience with it themselves, and are also probably scared of it. They've chosen their own level of inexperience, but you can do better.

Getting acro/spin training adds experience, skill, awareness, and confidence in a way that stall avoidance training never can. Those who are comfortable and skilled doing spins are generally not the ones who accidentally drill holes into the ground turning base to final. Pilots tend to mishandle the airplane exactly BECAUSE they fear the unknown and hamfist it. Don't be that pilot.
 
Salty said:
I mean, shouldn't he get tailwheel and high performance training before soloing also, and some glider time? Probably should learn how to plan a cross country as well. All of those provide useful skills, but you don't need them all in order to do an initial solo. That's all I'm saying.
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Maybe you should reread the OP.

Nauga,
agenda-free
 
OP. I’m curious how many hours you have total, how many recent since your five year hiatus ended, and how close to solo are you per your primary CFI. If you have not been flying very much and are not to the point of soloing yet due to still getting the basics of coordinated flight down pat, I think doing spins and acro would be a waste of time and money at this juncture. Not that you shouldn’t eventually do that training as I think there is great value in it and I’d encourage all pilots to do it at least once if not on a recurring basis, but I am in the camp of those who think that getting the basics down pat and demonstrating your ability to fly the plane solo around the pattern should come first.

Have you spoken to your primary instructor yet regarding this advanced training you want to insert into your pre-solo curriculum? Or is the search for an acro instructor also a search for a primary CFI? Your post left me uncertain of where you actually are in the process.

Ultimately, the decision is yours. Have fun either way.
 
Wondering how much you'll actually retain from this training when you are still learning how to fly a plane?

In order to understand aerobatics you first have to have a clear understanding, and experience, with all of the basic flight maneuver's. Also a solid understanding of the forces of flight in the various regimes. How much are you actually going to be able to understand and apply if you have no foundation with which to apply it?

If you want to do it for fun, absolutely. Probably be a blast. But doing it before you have a solid understanding of flight is likely to have very little benefit, I would think.

Also, if money is no object, then why not? You can get additional training in aerobatics after you get your license.

However, if your financial situation is squeezing by on a month to month budget (as was mine for most of my life), I think you'd be better off spending this money after your get your PPL when you will have a better chance of understanding and applying what you learn from this.
 
Did you ever find an instructor? I'm returning from a 13 year flying hiatus and a 16 year aerobatic hiatus. Funny, my last aerobatic flight was with Flying Lemur shortly after I moved to the DC area. I've also been trying to reach them for a few years with no response.

Either way, NOVA Pilots out of Leesburg has a beautiful 2021 Super Decathlon they use for spins, upset recovery, and aerobatics. They have a second Decathlon that will eventually come back online after some repairs. I went up this past Sunday and it was a blast, despite being only my second time flying in over a decade. We did spins, aileron rolls, loops, half Cubans, aerobatic turns, Hammerheads, and I even learned the Shark's Tooth. Will probably try to get five hours in before starting the commercial rating, and hope to get one aerobatic flight per month going forward. Mike Walter and Bob Garity are the two instructors for aerobatics.
 
rpayne88 said:
After a five year hiatus, I'm finally working on my PPL again. (First the hand-me-down truck my dad gave me died, prompting a newer car purchase that needed to be paid off. Then my parents kicked me out.)

Anyway, before I solo, I'd like to get both upset attitude and actual spin training. (Spin awareness, avoidence, and plenty of practice recovering from various types of spins.) Additionally, I'd like to at least give aerobatics a try, despite being a bit nervous about it, in order to become a bit more comfortable in the air. I just need to find an instructor.

I live in central MD. According to the IAC, I have Aerosport Limited, Dent-Air, Flying Lemur Inc, Kraemer Aviation Services, and Piedmont Flight Center. Aerosport's website is throwing a 403 error, so I'm guessing they're out of buisness. Dent-Air, run by Bill Finagin, seems to be world renown, but a Pitts is probably a bit much for a borderline broke/timid presolo student. Flying Lemur, part of DC Aerobatics, has not been doing instruction ever since COVID hit and has been nonresponsive as far as me asking if they are willing to offer instruction to a fully vaccinated student. Kraemer's website does not mention aerobatics or spins at all. And Piedmont is in extreme southern MD, over two hours from my house. Does anyone know of any other instructors in my area and how much I can expect to spend?
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Aerobatics is different from spin training. I had to do spins as part of my primary training (Canada). It was great fun, but I am not sure if it has much utility value. A base to final spin is unrecoverable, so its better to focus on spin avoidance. But if I have a student who is consistently sloppy on the rudder, then I do some spins to demonstrate how serious it could become.
 
sarangan said:
I had to do spins as part of my primary training (Canada). It was great fun, but I am not sure if it has much utility value. A base to final spin is unrecoverable, so its better to focus on spin avoidance.
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I and many others strongly disagree. Pilots who are experienced, comfortable, and competent with spins aren't the ones who fly fearfully and skid turns at low altitude. They have a comfort level and awareness that puts them in a position to be more likely to never NEED to use those spin recovery skills. Spin avoidance is good too but there's really no substitute for practical experience and comfort with spins.
 
Sometimes it’s worthwhile taking a trip and taking lessons at big student training areas, things are cheaper, lots of schools and options etc. One school won’t have everything so you’ll eventually be at multiple schools. Denver is a good area, others can chime in on other options if you’ll consider that. Tailwheel is good training too.
 
I HIGHLY recommend spin and aerobatic training.

But I would wait until after you get your PPL. Concentrate on that first.

I started tailwheel/spin/aerobatic training a few months after I got my PPL. A Pitts would be fine for spin training, but IMO, it is not a good basic aerobatic trainer. It can mask errors that a lesser plane will make glaringly obvious. I recommend the good old Decathlon to start aerobatics. It will take you a good ways, but eventually, you will run out of performance. Then go Pitts or Extra.

I did mine locally, but if you wait until after you get your PPL consider a vacation to somewhere and do it a week, flying every day.
 
I don't recall if it was pre solo, but I told my instructor I wanted to do spins and grass fields early on and he obliged... this was in a C-150, which is approved for spins. I did acro lessons shortly after my checkride, in a Stearman.
 
Unlikely this is still a question for the OP, but I like the topic so I'll chime in on general discussion.

100% agree on value of spin training. To avoid spins, you must be able to recognize what a developing spin looks and feels like. The best way to learn that is to do some spins. IMO it should be required for PPL, but the powers that be do not agree.

100% agree on value of aerobatics. Teaches multiple valuable skills like unusual attitude recovery, how to deal with Vne, how to avoid overstressing aircraft, comfort with steep turns, and understanding of accelerated stalls.

Questions are when, who, and what aircraft.

WHEN: First taste of spin training should be after solo and before PPL. First taste of acro should be after PPL and before IR, CP, ME, etc. No harm in doing either earlier, but you'll get more out of it once you have basic skills down. CAVEAT: for student pilots dealing with fear, spins and acro can be a way of showing there is no monster under the bed.

WHO: "famous" instructors tend to focus on higher level training, such as competition prep and advanced aircraft checkouts. IMO it is generally not necessary to use someone like that for initial training. There are hundreds of competent instructors in the country. Look for one with some IAC competition history.

WHAT AIRCRAFT: Getting initial spin and acro training in an Extra is like a student driver learning to park in a Ferrari. In addition to being an unnecessary expense, dealing with the excess performance can be a distraction from focusing on basic skills.

Pitts spin and checkout training is a niche activity geared towards people who are going to own a Pitts. Crossover spins killed numerous pilots and ground loops trashed plenty of planes before the Pitts community recognized that rigorous training was necessary. Great plane that develops incredible skills, but again, probably unnecessary for primary training.

IMO the Decathlon is the most widely available and suitable aircraft for spins and primary acro. It is relatively docile, but can fly anything up to and including Intermediate-level competition maneuvers, which is far beyond primary training. Almost impossible to get in trouble in one. Spin entry and recovery are very straight forward and conventional.

Flying Lemur is Adam Cope. He is a very experienced instructor with 30+ years of teaching acro and spins in a Decathlon, and competition up to IAC Advanced category. I highly recommend him. Try contacting him on the Aerobatics Google Group or Facebook Group.
 
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I am not so sure that IAC competition heritage is needed for the instructor. Yes, if you think you might go that way.

What is more important is an instructor that understands and teaches you how to get the most of the plane in all regimes of flight.

I had an instructor like that. He was a Navy Ferry pilot in WWII. He flew everything the Navy flew, and sometimes his check out was, there is starter button, get going. Never flew competition.

What I learned from him saved my life at least once. And what I taught to students from what I learned from him saved several of their lives also.

RIP Bud Brinkman
 
Pinecone said:
I am not so sure that IAC competition heritage is needed for the instructor. Yes, if you think you might go that way.
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It is not required. But you need some way to vet the instructor for aerobatic competence before trusting your life to them. A competition background is one good way to do that. Contests require you to fly to a precise standard, and to be judged objectively on that standard.

In addition, the IAC has a strong safety culture, and an excellent track record of running events without mishaps. I believe there has only been one fatality ever at an IAC-sanctioned contest. Those who get involved in the IAC tend to pick up that mindset.

The problem with getting your training from Rufus the old guy with the great war stories is that you lack experience to know whether Rufus is the real deal or a ******** artist. I've run across enough of the latter to value someone who has proven their aerobatic skill to an objective standard.
 
I see you point, but pointing out that there are many non-competition pilots who are very good.

And aerobatic competition is not about skills that save your life in an emergency. It is about doing certain maneuvers to a certain standard.

For basic aerobatic training, I don't care of the loop is perfectly round. Or the slow roll is precisely the same roll rate all the way around.
 
Both you guys are pretty much right, but since there are literally zero qualifications required in order to "teach" aerobatics, potential students should ask around (even on forums) for instructor recommendations. Aerobatics is a very small community and the quality instructors are generally known, whether they have competition experience or not. The most well-respected acro instructors do tend to have competition experience. This alone is not necessarily the main qualification, it's just that those who are truly dedicated to the art of aerobatics tend to get involved in competition at some point in their life. Competition provides unbiased outside observations and forces you to learn decent fundamentals if you are to have any success at all.

There are plenty of acro instructors out there who have very good fundamentals even though they never competed. There are also those teaching, and who have taught, who don't have a solid grasp of many fundamentals, just like CFIs in general. For pilots who just want some once-and-done unusual attitude experience, you are unlikely to find a truly unsafe instructor. But if you are one of the very few who truly have an interest in the art of aerobatics, good fundamentals are important. These types should do their homework and be willing to invest (and travel) for good instruction.
 
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I think Ed nailed it.

I did my first spin and acro as part of a 5 hour "unusual attitudes" syllabus shortly after the PPT in a Decathlon. Emphasis was full deflection control and finding the limits of the plane AND Pilot. During PPT training I can't imagine it would stick. That said, an intro to spins during PPT is certainly fair and logical with the right CFI and plane.

In my aviation journey, 2 things totally surprised me and me thinks they should be experienced in the training environment before it happens in anger.

1. Spins: After the first one It was fun. But I doubt I would have survived the first one if it was unintended without the training. Somehow, I was expecting the horizon to be going around, I didn't expect a full window of the planet coming at me. Once I wrapped my head around that, they became fun.

2. Actual IMC : I had a great PPT instructor, we did the 3 hours of "control using instruments only" in actual. I knew I wouldn't be able to see, but I did not expect the things out the window to lie to me. When I took the fogles off, I got so confused, so fast, I really believe the inadvertent VFR into IMC stats. It only took a short time to tune it out and use instruments, but seeing it in real life for the first time was not what I expected.

But to the OP, I'd say, stick to the syllabus to get the PPT, and them plan on continuing training forever thereafter.
 
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RoscoeT said:
Both you guys are pretty much right, but since there are literally zero qualifications required in order to "teach" aerobatics, potential students should ask around (even on forums) for instructor recommendations. Aerobatics is a very small community and the quality instructors are generally known, whether they have competition experience or not. The most well-respected acro instructors do tend to have competition experience. This alone is not necessarily the main qualification, it's just that those who are truly dedicated to the art of aerobatics tend to get involved in competition at some point in their life. Competition provides unbiased outside observations and forces you to learn decent fundamentals if you are to have any success at all.

There are plenty of acro instructors out there who have very good fundamentals even though they never competed. There are also those teaching, and who have taught, who don't have a solid grasp of many fundamentals, just like CFIs in general. For pilots who just want some once-and-done unusual attitude experience, you are unlikely to find a truly unsafe instructor. But if you are one of the very few who truly have an interest in the art of aerobatics, good fundamentals are important. These types should do their homework and be willing to invest (and travel) for good instruction.
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100% agree with all. My point was and is simply that if you are a student pilot looking for a local aerobatic instructor, and unsure how to determine if one is competent and safe, a track record of IAC contest success is one very good indicator.

I have seen accident reports of CFIs with 10-20 hours of total aerobatic experience who were teaching acro and spins, with fatal results.

My first taildragger CFI had maybe 15 hours in taildraggers. He got his endorsement, soloed a few times, and then started teaching.

There are some yahoos out there.
 
jbarrass said:
Somehow, I was expecting the horizon to be going around, I didn't expect a full window of the planet coming at me.
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LOL, great point, that nose drop is a holy crap moment the first time.

IMO the critical skill is recognizing the sight picture of roll and yaw in the same direction. Once you know what that looks like, your odds of arresting it before you get a window of the planet are much better. That's why I do think a few spins during PPL are beneficial. I believe that used to be a requirement in the olden days.
 
Another type of class to look for is Emergency Maneuvers Training (EMT). For those not interested in aerobatics, or addition to aerobatics, EMT focuses on spin and true "upset" training, such as would be encountered if you get into wake turbulence.

There are a number of schools that offer this type of course (usually either called EMT or Upset Recovery). To my knowledge, CP was the "original" EMT school:

https://www.cpaviation.com/upset-prevention-recovery-training-emt-aerobatics
 
If you're flush with money, far be it from me to tell you not to spend it. Heck, might as well tell your instructor you want to learn chandelles, lazy eights, and every other commercial maneuver. They'll make you a better pilot. You'll end up with 150 hours of dual and broke with no Private certificate but you'll be the best/most experienced student pilot to fail a private pilot checkride because you spent most of your time learning new maneuvers and not enough mastering the ones actually listed in the ACS. They'll be plenty of time to do spin training and aerobatics or commercial maneuvers after you've mastered the private syllabus. If you want to see a spin and spin recovery, that's one thing. Actually training to do spins and aerobatics before passing a private pilot checkride is not going to help you get that first license to learn. I'd wager that having to demonstrate a spin recovery on your private checkride will mean you've failed. I'll be looking for those commenting that at least he'll be alive by recovering but you will have missed my point. Pilots don't usually die from spinning to the ground from altitude; they die by skidding the final turn and stalling where you won't be able to recover. An examiner will need to be assured that you know how not to get into the situation where you have to demonstrate an ability to recover or die. Just to repeat myself, it's your money, you spend it the way you want.
 
Funny. The military teaches aerobatics pre-solo. Those pilots turn out pretty good.

And I disagree a bit, in that learning commercial maneuvers or aerobatics not helping with PPL work, the added precision learned will not hurt, and likely help your PPL flying.
 
Pinecone said:
Funny. The military teaches aerobatics pre-solo. Those pilots turn out pretty good.

And I disagree a bit, in that learning commercial maneuvers or aerobatics not helping with PPL work, the added precision learned will not hurt, and likely help your PPL flying.
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And you just aren't getting the point. No one argues that spin training, learning commercial maneuvers or aerobatic training is a bad thing. The military takes two years for someone to earn a pilot rating. That's two years of intense, full time, flying, simming, and academics. What's that cost the tax payer? A million bucks? Money well spent when the new pilots go on to fly multi-million dollar aircraft to defend the nation. The question brought up in this thread is the utility of spin training or aerobatic training in order to earn a private pilot certificate assuming a limited budget and flying part time. There's enough to learn and enough boxes to check without adding more to the program. My opinion, having done both military and civilian flight training, is to do what it takes to master a private pilot syllabus and get the FAA license to learn first before spending time flying upside down or increasing your skill level above what is required of a private pilot. Or you can spend a million dollars and years as a student pilot and ending up with the same piece of plastic with PPSEL on it but confident that you can recover an inverted spin in one turn without spilling a cup of coffee placed on the glare shield of your Cessna 172,
 
Hmmm, 2 years? Not in the USAF. It is about 2 years from starting officer training (same whether pilot or not) and fully mission ready in your operational aircraft.

A little over a year for 0 time to wings (and with Mil Comp exam, Commercial, Instrument). I skipped FSP due to having my PPL, so arrived at UPT late November, graduated with wings late October the next year. FSP was 4 or 6 weeks in the T-41A (C-172).

OP did not specify that he was trying to do minimum time/minimum funds. He sort of implied some funding issue as why he did a hiatus. But we don't know his financial situation now.

And I agree, that there is a limit to how much UA/Aerobatic training makes sense pre-solo. But a few hours will not be a big hurdle. And, IMO, will help flying the PPL manuevers. But maybe 1 - 3 hours pre-solo, then a few more after solo.
 
Pinecone said:
Hmmm, 2 years? Not in the USAF. It is about 2 years from starting officer training (same whether pilot or not) and fully mission ready in your operational aircraft...
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You're correct; I was thinking 2 years to mission ready. The rating takes about one year of full time training.
 
First of all, any comparison between military and civilian flight training that makes a positive comparison is specious at best. Military training is performed in a highly structured high pressure 24/7 environment. There is a certain degree of flexibility but not that much. The training is the finest in the world but should not be compared with its civilian counterpart where there can be lapses between dual sessions and much that defines the quality of the civilian program whether Part 61 or Part 141 depends a great deal on the individual instructor involved with the training. Also, ANY spin training and especially aerobatic training should be performed ONLY by instructors qualified to perform such training and inserting aerobatics into a pre-solo curriculum could mean the switching of instructors and even aircraft and this is highly counterproductive to a pre-solo student.
Although I highly recommend that every pilot obtain aerobatic, upset, and spin training there are several reasons I would not recommend this training to a student pilot before solo.
The most important reason is that in order for aerobatics and spins be fully understood and performed, there is a requirement that certain "nuances" pertaining to control use vs changing airspeed and dynamic pressure in a constantly changing g environment be understood for the training to be optimized. This involves by strange circumstance EXACTLY what is being MISSED during the pre-solo dual period by a student taking this advanced training; that being the foundation formed by the student related to gaining the required "feel" for the aircraft being used for dual instruction. In other words, the basics that form the very foundation for any advanced handling of the aircraft are being neglected. The student in turn will be EXTREMELY susceptible to rote performance of these advanced maneuvers. This is NOT optimized flight instruction for a civilian student. In all to many cases it has been my experience as an aerobatic instructor that placing a student pilot into an aerobatic environment before a basic flying skill set has had time to be implanted can actually be counterproductive to the student.
A residual reason for not doing this is that it is not financially responsible as that relates to the student's time spent in dual session before solo. There will be plenty of time for the student to be acclimated into advanced maneuvers after the building of a solid foundation of the basics has been secured.
Dudley Henriques
 
Dudley Henriques said:
First of all, any comparison between military and civilian flight training that makes a positive comparison is specious at best. Military training is performed in a highly structured high pressure 24/7 environment. There is a certain degree of flexibility but not that much. The training is the finest in the world but should not be compared with its civilian counterpart where there can be lapses between dual sessions and much that defines the quality of the civilian program whether Part 61 or Part 141 depends a great deal on the individual instructor involved with the training. Also, ANY spin training and especially aerobatic training should be performed ONLY by instructors qualified to perform such training and inserting aerobatics into a pre-solo curriculum could mean the switching of instructors and even aircraft and this is highly counterproductive to a pre-solo student.
Although I highly recommend that every pilot obtain aerobatic, upset, and spin training there are several reasons I would not recommend this training to a student pilot before solo.
The most important reason is that in order for aerobatics and spins be fully understood and performed, there is a requirement that certain "nuances" pertaining to control use vs changing airspeed and dynamic pressure in a constantly changing g environment be understood for the training to be optimized. This involves by strange circumstance EXACTLY what is being MISSED during the pre-solo dual period by a student taking this advanced training; that being the foundation formed by the student related to gaining the required "feel" for the aircraft being used for dual instruction. In other words, the basics that form the very foundation for any advanced handling of the aircraft are being neglected. The student in turn will be EXTREMELY susceptible to rote performance of these advanced maneuvers. This is NOT optimized flight instruction for a civilian student. In all to many cases it has been my experience as an aerobatic instructor that placing a student pilot into an aerobatic environment before a basic flying skill set has had time to be implanted can actually be counterproductive to the student.
A residual reason for not doing this is that it is not financially responsible as that relates to the student's time spent in dual session before solo. There will be plenty of time for the student to be acclimated into advanced maneuvers after the building of a solid foundation of the basics has been secured.
Dudley Henriques
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One thing often forgotten about USAF pilot training is that the students have already done a screening program roughly analogous to a PPL pre-solo curriculum before starting UPT. I see a lot of value in a curriculum that integrates basic aerobatics and spin training similar to UPT. It does require all the flying be done in an aircraft capable of such flying. A 152 aerobat probably being the cheapest option and a CFI who knows what he’s doing for this type of training. The result will be a pilot who will more readily recognize an impending departure from controlled flight and be confident of his ability to recover. The FAA’s PPL standards shoot for a pilot who stays solidly in the middle of the envelope and has an academic knowledge of why he wants to stay away from the rest of the envelope.

Dudley is entirely correct that most PPL students have neither the financial resources, regular/consistent time for training, proper aircraft, or instructor availability to pursue training like the military does. The OP would probably be best served pursuing the traditional civilian path and pursuing aerobatic flight after earning the PPL.
 
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