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learning2fly

Filing Flight Plan
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learning2fly
Hello Pilots,

I am currently a CFI who passed PPL first time, IFR rating second time, Commercial Pilots License first time and CFI-A first time. After being signed off for CFII, I have busted that check ride twice. I know at this point I have definitely caused damage to my record and name but I would like an honest opinion from people in the industry on if its worth it to me to continue to instruct and go to the airlines or I probably will have issues finding a job.

CFII- Busted twice once on the ground for DPE saying (I was vague but right) second time on the flight for full scale glideslope deflection after failing to descent to glide slope interception altitude which was seriously in nervousness for an approach I flew 20+ times.

Advice Would be appreciated!

Thank You!
 
They will be ecstatic to have a warm blooded English speaking person with the minimum ratings. You’ll be fine.
 
I don't know enough about the industry to know how an employer would react. It might be dependent on what's happening when you apply. Shortages, the comparison with other applicants, etc. but I do know that if you don't try, you don't stand a chance.
 
I would advise that you get the CFI-I ride passed (even though it's not required, two failures and giving up doesn't look good). Many airlines will give you contingent job offers when you were well below hiring minimums, so apply after that, or at least talk to the recruiters.

I had to read twice before I realized you also failed your instrument ride the first time. That's 3 total failures (so far) and on paper that shows that you have trouble with instrument flying which doesn't seem favorable for an airline career but again, see above.

Are the three failures all with the same DPE? I would find a new one if so. Also it sounds like you still have to your multiengine to do.
 
Uh... I see this as ZERO issue. Seriously.

in one airline interview I had, I was asked about my D- in electrical engineering...

“Impressive huh? I passed first time. Electrical engineering is HARD, I would say I’d have done better if I tried harder, but that was all I had.. and I made it! Woo Hoo! Did you ever take electrical engineering classes?”

Hr person: “uh no... thanks. Moving along....”

I got the job.

It could matter. But it shouldn’t.
 
Tools said:
Uh... I see this as ZERO issue. Seriously.

in one airline interview I had, I was asked about my D- in electrical engineering...

“Impressive huh? I passed first time. Electrical engineering is HARD, I would say I’d have done better if I tried harder, but that was all I had.. and I made it! Woo Hoo! Did you ever take electrical engineering classes?”

Hr person: “uh no... thanks. Moving along....”

I got the job.

It could matter. But it shouldn’t.
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Three checkride failures is a serious issue...not remotely on the same level as a low grade in a college class. I've never even heard of them asking about those.
 
dmspilot said:
Three checkride failures is a serious issue...not remotely on the same level as a low grade in a college class. I've never even heard of them asking about those.
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What???!! You think something relevant to aviation is more significant than something which is not?
 
I have never once asked an applicant how many time they passed or failed a certificate check ride. I don't care what happened. I care about what you did to prevent it from happening in the futre. The PRIA will show me what I need to know about 135 or 121 rides.

As far as failing the CFII on the ground- you are teaching so it has to be right the first time. You can't be vague and get the lesson across.
 
Without knowing the question / answer for the oral its hard to judge. But 3 busts on instrument rides makes me wonder how instrument proficient are you? A full scale GS deflection? And you didn't notice ahead of time and go missed? Yikes. Practice. Then more practice - including different approaches than those you usually fly. Teaching this stuff you have got to be sharp. They will try to kill you in the clouds - and hopefully you will be competent enough to actually fly/teach in the clouds.
 
Pass that ride and don’t fail any more. If you have a pulse and 1500 hrs…you’ll be hired.

i have a pulse and 1700 hrs, but decided to fly 135 in a Citation II with a locally owned outfit. I really like it so far and my clientele is 100x better than the regionals are hauling around. Haven’t had to duck tape anyone yet. Fingers crossed.
 
I think the OP needs to find his answer to two questions.

1. What did you learn from each of these failures,
individually and collectively?

2. Based on the answers above, what have you done to earn a company’s invest in a type rating for you?
 
I doubt anyone is going to care about it, out of all the places I sent resumes to, interviewed with, no one asked if I had any 61/141 failures. I think the further you go in the career the less people will care about your early training shy of a crash or enforcement action.

Is the school you’re training at willing to hire you as a CFI? That would be my biggest concern.
 
learning2fly said:
Hello Pilots,

I am currently a CFI who passed PPL first time, IFR rating second time, Commercial Pilots License first time and CFI-A first time. After being signed off for CFII, I have busted that check ride twice. I know at this point I have definitely caused damage to my record and name but I would like an honest opinion from people in the industry on if its worth it to me to continue to instruct and go to the airlines or I probably will have issues finding a job.

CFII- Busted twice once on the ground for DPE saying (I was vague but right) second time on the flight for full scale glideslope deflection after failing to descent to glide slope interception altitude which was seriously in nervousness for an approach I flew 20+ times.

Advice Would be appreciated!

Thank You!
Click to expand...

When I read your story I suspect you have failed to make the effort required to be where you are now. You are the student who kinda just got by. In a few years you will blow a bunch of airline interviews because you didn’t prepare yourself just like you didn’t prepare yourself for some check rides.

The choice is yours. You can toss many thousands of dollars of flight training in the trash or you can make to proper effort to complete the CFI-I.

What ever decision you make, you owe to your future students and yourself to be the best Pilot/instructor you can become. After you do that, you will know how to prepare yourself for the interviews and make a career in the airlines.
 
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Clip4 said:
When I read your story I suspect you have failed to make the effort required to be where you are now. You are the student who kinda just got by. In a few years you will blow a bunch of airline interviews because you didn’t prepare yourself just like you didn’t prepare yourself for some check rides.

The choice is yours. You can toss many thousands of dollars of flight training in the trash or you can make to proper effort to complete the CFI-I.

What ever decision you make, you owe to your future students and yourself to be the best Pilot/instructor you can become. After you do that, you will know how to prepare yourself for the interviews and make a career in the airlines.
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That’s reaching. Bet you’re fun at a party…
 
Can you describe what sort of training program you're in? 61/141? How much actual IFR have you flown since getting the rating?
 
BladeSlap said:
That’s reaching. Bet you’re fun at a party…
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The reasoning is probably is reaching, but the fact is that the OP has busted instrument-centric checkrides three times. If I were looking at hiring someone for a job that requires two instrument checkrides a year, this might be a red flag.

might be something the OP should consider, too…are you prepared to pass two instrument checkrides a year for the rest of your career?
 
MauleSkinner said:
The reasoning is probably is reaching, but the fact is that the OP has busted instrument-centric checkrides three times. If I were looking at hiring someone for a job that requires two instrument checkrides a year, this might be a red flag.

might be something the OP should consider, too…are you prepared to pass two instrument checkrides a year for the rest of your career?
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Failing the same one a few times ain’t great, but YEARS from now when he’s ready for a airline interview, doubt they’ll care as long as he does well at the next 3-5 pilot jobs.

Also having had good CFIs and bad ones, it’s hard to read too much with some of those failures
 
BladeSlap said:
Failing the same one a few times ain’t great, but YEARS from now when he’s ready for a airline interview, doubt they’ll care as long as he does well at the next 3-5 pilot jobs.

Also having had good CFIs and bad ones, it’s hard to read too much with some of those failures
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True…but even if it’s a CFI problem, the OP consistently busting instrument checkrides is a potential problem.

Whether or not the potential employer notices or cares about these checkrides, the OP needs to get his poop in a group so he can consistently pass instrument checkrides or the potential employer WILL know AND care.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
True…but even if it’s a CFI problem, the OP consistently busting instrument checkrides is a potential problem.

Whether or not the potential employer notices or cares about these checkrides, the OP needs to get his poop in a group so he can consistently pass instrument checkrides or the potential employer WILL know AND care.
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Agreed
 
in my first airline interview i was asked if i had ever failed a ride. i answered yes, my CFI initial. the interview capt asked what happened, i told him and he guessed who the examiner was.
 
Do any interviews ask how many hours you had when you first soloed?

Seems that would be a equally good metric if looking back to the start of one’s flying
 
k9medic said:
I don't care what happened. I care about what you did to prevent it from happening in the futre
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..but isn't failing multiple times an indication that the "what you did to prevent it from happening in the future" piece is broken?

I am sorry, but a full GS deflection is pretty bad. The guy next to you is just a person.. it's going to be much more stressful if you're actually in IMC flying to minimums with turbulence and wind low on fuel. OP probably could have saved the checkride by not letting it go full deflection, if you can tell you're off or don't have your head in the game just execute the missed, ask ATC to revector. I bet the DPE would prefer that kind of foresight to just letting it go full deflection while fighting it down

Sorry.
 
I don’t disagree that a full-scale deflection is significant.

My point was more like you said -why did you go full scale deflection instead of going missed?

Anybody can have a bad day. Remember, a change in behavior as a result of an experience is the definition of learning.

With what he presented, I do not see this as repeated failure points as much as it is failures in the process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
k9medic said:
With what he presented, I do not see this as repeated failure points as much as it is failures in the process.
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But what is he doing (or would you suggest he do) to address the failures in the process?
 
You’ll definitely get asked about it in your interviews but as long as you own up to it and explain how the failures made you into a better pilot, I’d think the interviewers would be understanding.
 
MauleSkinner said:
But what is he doing (or would you suggest he do) to address the failures in the process?
Click to expand...

That's the "why" part of the question has not been shared.

I busted my CFI fixed wing add on rating halfway through the oral. I went from explaining P factor to explaining retreating blade stall somehow. Came back and redid my oral and moved on. The "why" in my situation was the fact that I had about 1000 hours as an IP in helicopters when I did the add on. I knew the info but slipped into a teaching mode that I was comfortable with.

Is he busting the checkride because his flying skills stink or because he is not processing what is going on in the aircraft in a timely manner?
 
k9medic said:
Is he busting the checkride because his flying skills stink or because he is not processing what is going on in the aircraft in a timely manner?
Click to expand...

Full scale GS deflection - I would say both. As a CFII you should be so far from letting that happen - its not a simple mistake. Its something that can (will) kill you.
 
I was never asked anything about checkrides for certificates in interviews.

Go pass the checkride and move on.

But if your permanent record shows you teased your little sister when you were in grade school, then it is over.... :lol:
 
There’s one more instrument ride to go, and that one is to higher standards… the ATP.
I know many regionals will put you through that course, but perhaps in this case it’s better to show up at the interview with this completed. If you can pass the most stringent instrument ride the first time, imo it will help negate previous failures.
 
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