Advice on HIMS Program

[HIMSSCREWED]

In the south when someone says “he’s challenged” it means the same as “he’s special” and you would have to be challenged to think you’ll win this fight.

I’m quite successful and have overcome many setbacks in my life. No participation trophies for my generation. Unfortunately it was my generation giving them out to the kids.

Good luck. I hope you come out the other side of this journey well

Just save this thread and please update us when you consider it to be a finished quest.

As the father of a "challenged" daughter I do not find your response either funny nor responsible. I too am quite successful and have overcome my setbacks in life as well. The one problem with the last part of that sentence however is the HIMS program because it truly has not allowed me to completely overcome my "setbacks" because it holds them over my head continuously! I do not think even once about drinking until this program forces me to! SMH! As someone whose closer to a decade than not being sober, this is a MAJOR flaw of this program. Hold those accountable no doubt, but to continuously hold it over their head and threaten their livelihood, this is abuse. There is no other word for it. I will certainly share my wins and my losses though because there are many more like me out there (you'd probably be shocked how many of us there are) and my personal goal is to help everyone of those suffering people find their way through this nasty fog that is the HIMS Program!!!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

As the father of a "challenged" daughter I do not find your response either funny nor responsible. I too am quite successful and have overcome my setbacks in life as well. The one problem with the last part of that sentence however is the HIMS program because it truly has not allowed me to completely overcome my "setbacks" because it holds them over my head continuously! I do not think even once about drinking until this program forces me to! SMH! As someone whose closer to a decade than not being sober, this is a MAJOR flaw of this program. Hold those accountable no doubt, but to continuously hold it over their head and threaten their livelihood, this is abuse. There is no other word for it. I will certainly share my wins and my losses though because there are many more like me out there (you'd probably be shocked how many of us there are) and my personal goal is to help everyone of those suffering people find their way through this nasty fog that is the HIMS Program!!!

I wasn’t making a joke.

I’m also quite aware of how many people in our society deal with substance abuse and mental health issues. I had the opportunity to interact with many people that were not successful in those battles during my tenure as a law enforcement officer. We, as a society, could do a lot better in supporting those people in need.

Like it or not everyone is not able to hold a medical. Where that line is drawn can be debated. I personally think it’s draconian in some ways and exceedingly lenient in others.

I also know I can’t change it…

Good luck.

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

Your last sentence is where all of our problems lay! You admit there needs to be change yet simply through up your hands in defeat and accept it. This program tries to tell those of us in it that we are powerless! Popycock! We are power-FULL! The sooner both patient and provider realize this the better imo.

 

[TCABM]

Your last sentence is where all of our problems lay! You admit there needs to be change yet simply through up your hands in defeat and accept it. This program tries to tell those of us in it that we are powerless! Popycock! We are power-FULL! The sooner both patient and provider realize this the better imo.

The FAA is not a provider; they are a certifier that an individual’s medical history is acceptable given the the relevant criteria in the Code of Federal Regulations. That criteria is established in federal law; want it changed, get Congress on your side.

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

Oh how I wish this were true because IF it was, the FAA ACTUALLY followed the regulations, we would all have our unrestricted medicals back after two years of demonstrated abstinence. Also, both Houses ARE growing in numbers behind us, so don’t think we haven’t already thought of that and started down that path! Change is on the horizon!

 

[Palmpilot]

Oh how I wish this were true because IF it was, the FAA ACTUALLY followed the regulations, we would all have our unrestricted medicals back after two years of demonstrated abstinence. Also, both Houses ARE growing in numbers behind us, so don’t think we haven’t already thought of that and started down that path! Change is on the horizon!

The regulations include a virtual blank check for the Federal Air Surgeon to identify conditions as disqualifying even though they are not specifically listed in the regulations. See 67.313(b) below.

§ 67.313 General medical condition.

​

The general medical standards for a third-class airman medical certificate are:​

​

(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of diabetes mellitus that requires insulin or any other hypoglycemic drug for control.​

​

(b) No other organic, functional, or structural disease, defect, or limitation that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—​

​

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or​

​

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.​

​

(c) No medication or other treatment that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the medication or other treatment involved, finds—​

​

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or​

​

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.​

(There is similar language for the first and second class medical certificates.)

 

[unsafervguy]

im going to get flamed for this but oh well.

first, yes there are reforms that need to be made in the FAA medical field.
but, the hims program is designed to get pilots back in the air that have an alcohol problem. agree with it or not, alcoholism has been defined as a disease. a disease that does not have a defined cure. it has treatment. with the acceptance of this definition, the FAA has no other option but to put strict controls on anyone that has been diagnosed with this disease. sorry, but anyone that does not learn after the first DUI has a problem. the FAA has to take a hard line to protect the public. being that testing only proves that you have abstained at that time, can they really say, " ok a couple of years of testing has proved you are not a threat?" as the good doctor has pointed out, AA's numbers are not that great. plenty of people have fallen off after years of sobriety.

a second point, i have first hand knowledge of the problem. early in my airline days i was involved with and investigation of a crew member that put my certificate at risk because of his addiction. it was not a fun time for a probationary FO.


getting behind the wheel after drinkink is a choice, if you make that choice you had better be willing to pay that price, even if it is steep price for the rest of you life.

 

[Tools]

HIMS was designed to get medical IN LESS THAN 2 years. And that “discretion” is codified, summarily ignored. I just found that in the federal register.

Discretion to NOT allow a UNRESTRICTED medical in more than two years.

So the general use of HIMS like it is, is in violation of their own standards.

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

The regulations include a virtual blank check for the Federal Air Surgeon to identify conditions as disqualifying even though they are not specifically listed in the regulations. See 67.313(b) below.

§ 67.313 General medical condition.

​

The general medical standards for a third-class airman medical certificate are:​

​

(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of diabetes mellitus that requires insulin or any other hypoglycemic drug for control.​

​

(b) No other organic, functional, or structural disease, defect, or limitation that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—​

​

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or​

​

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.​

​

(c) No medication or other treatment that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the medication or other treatment involved, finds—​

​

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or​

​

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.​

(There is similar language for the first and second class medical certificates.)

100%! This all needs definition and oversight! Cart blanc will no longer fly! Pun intended!

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

im going to get flamed for this but oh well.

first, yes there are reforms that need to be made in the FAA medical field.
but, the hims program is designed to get pilots back in the air that have an alcohol problem. agree with it or not, alcoholism has been defined as a disease. a disease that does not have a defined cure. it has treatment. with the acceptance of this definition, the FAA has no other option but to put strict controls on anyone that has been diagnosed with this disease. sorry, but anyone that does not learn after the first DUI has a problem. the FAA has to take a hard line to protect the public. being that testing only proves that you have abstained at that time, can they really say, " ok a couple of years of testing has proved you are not a threat?" as the good doctor has pointed out, AA's numbers are not that great. plenty of people have fallen off after years of sobriety.

a second point, i have first hand knowledge of the problem. early in my airline days i was involved with and investigation of a crew member that put my certificate at risk because of his addiction. it was not a fun time for a probationary FO.


getting behind the wheel after drinkink is a choice, if you make that choice you had better be willing to pay that price, even if it is steep price for the rest of you life.

Your post is a perfect example of the issue. Many of us don’t have dui’s or they are 10+ years in the past! The HIMS program should not be a one size fits all! Yes, repeat offenders should be held to a stricter standard but for those who put the time in and demonstrate that the problem is no longer a problem, should be released back into the wild to live as they were meant to…free!!!

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

HIMS was designed to get medical IN LESS THAN 2 years. And that “discretion” is codified, summarily ignored. I just found that in the federal register.

Discretion to NOT allow a UNRESTRICTED medical in more than two years.

So the general use of HIMS like it is, is in violation of their own standards.

 

[Frank74]

HIMS was designed to get medical IN LESS THAN 2 years. And that “discretion” is codified, summarily ignored. I just found that in the federal register.

Discretion to NOT allow a UNRESTRICTED medical in more than two years.

So the general use of HIMS like it is, is in violation of their own standards.

This is true


I was without a medical for about a year

Got a ticket for an alcohol related offense from a small town PD, traffic/fine only level, no harm to person or property.
I did not and do not have a “alcohol problem” simply made a mistake.

Went to a HIMs doc, he sent me to one of those alcoholic counselors, per the FAA checklist, we spoke for a while, had me do a urine test, all said and done reported I did not have a alcohol issue.


We sent this all to the FAA

FAA responds back far later than any professional licensing authority I have ever dealt with, ignoring the counselors letter, asking for a HIMs approved shrinks opinion… well just more money and time lost

I get with the HIMs AME, he gives me a referral to a FAA authorized shrink.

Shrink takes his times, asks a ton of questions, calls some family and friends and co workers, asks me to take a blood alcohol test, once all is said and done he generated a very in depth report, finding ZERO abuse / dependence.


Sent to FAA, I wait another inappropriately long time

FAA ignores this too, says it’s abuse and requires me to play the HIMs game for a period of time with an unneeded SI.


The FAA did not follow their own guidelines and I would wager they already made their mind up before reading the first report, anything that didn’t reaffirm their preconceived notion they ignored. We later sent a FOIA for their notes and found instances of pure fiction they made up out of who knows where.

Based on the FAA not following their own rules, willingness to lie in their own notes, I did not to report this to the office of professional responsibility, or the FAA workers home state medical board, for risk of retaliation.

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

Your post is a perfect example of the issue. Many of us don’t have dui’s or they are 10+ years in the past! The HIMS program should not be a one size fits all! Yes, repeat offenders should be held to a stricter standard but for those who put the time in and demonstrate that the problem is no longer a problem, should be released back into the wild to live as they were meant to…free!!!

Also, we seek conversation so we will never flame anyone for sharing their ideas! Thanks for posting!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Your last sentence is where all of our problems lay! You admit there needs to be change yet simply through up your hands in defeat and accept it. This program tries to tell those of us in it that we are powerless! Popycock! We are power-FULL! The sooner both patient and provider realize this the better imo.

As I said: Good luck.

 

[unsafervguy]

Your post is a perfect example of the issue. Many of us don’t have dui’s or they are 10+ years in the past! The HIMS program should not be a one size fits all! Yes, repeat offenders should be held to a stricter standard but for those who put the time in and demonstrate that the problem is no longer a problem, should be released back into the wild to live as they were meant to…free!!!

your posts fail the logic test. you say hims should not be one size fits all but then you state the after two years everyone should get a unrestricted medical. isnt that exactly one size fits all? in another post you say the reg say 2 years minimum, and ask why the FAA does not follow their own regs? doesn't the word minimum show that if they want 5 years they are still following their rules? the problem is there is no such thing as "recorded long term abstinence" all it shows is that you were clean when tested. the FAA has a high standard for disqualifing behavioral issues because there is no sure way of proving total compliance.

 

[flyingron]

HIMS was designed to get medical IN LESS THAN 2 years. And that “discretion” is codified, summarily ignored. I just found that in the federal register.

Discretion to NOT allow a UNRESTRICTED medical in more than two years.

So the general use of HIMS like it is, is in violation of their own standards.

The FAA rarely lives up to even the standards they set for themselves, let alone those compelled by law.

 

[Tools]

The faa has no such high standards. Their testing proves NOTHING. AT ALL. Doesn’t even meet 49cfr40 (or 14cfr120) standards.

The faa has discretion to hold people accountable for more than two years FOR ONLY certain conditions, clearly set forth in the federal register 59fr(something…).

That’s it. No, they can’t just say no, we don’t wanna, don’t care to tell you why.

BUT…

If you’re problematic, as shown by certain conditions, then ya, you don’t get to play. The faa, despite how they’ve conditioned most folks, ARE NOT LEGALLY GRANTED the power to do what ever the hell they want. They have VERY DETAILED rules they are required to abide by.

So, within their own rules, it’s not a one size fits all. It’s not a bad system, THEY JUST DONT FOLLOW IT.

IFR is pretty smart. Imagine if we JUST DIDNT FOLLOW IT, like they just don’t follow their own rules. It would be the same shipwreck of a system that they are.

But, we reckon it’s pretty prudent to follow rules. Not for fear of retribution, but because it’s a decent idea! WHY DONT THEY?

Spoiler alert… because we let them.

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

This is true


I was without a medical for about a year

Got a ticket for an alcohol related offense from a small town PD, traffic/fine only level, no harm to person or property.
I did not and do not have a “alcohol problem” simply made a mistake.

Went to a HIMs doc, he sent me to one of those alcoholic counselors, per the FAA checklist, we spoke for a while, had me do a urine test, all said and done reported I did not have a alcohol issue.


We sent this all to the FAA

FAA responds back far later than any professional licensing authority I have ever dealt with, ignoring the counselors letter, asking for a HIMs approved shrinks opinion… well just more money and time lost

I get with the HIMs AME, he gives me a referral to a FAA authorized shrink.

Shrink takes his times, asks a ton of questions, calls some family and friends and co workers, asks me to take a blood alcohol test, once all is said and done he generated a very in depth report, finding ZERO abuse / dependence.


Sent to FAA, I wait another inappropriately long time

FAA ignores this too, says it’s abuse and requires me to play the HIMs game for a period of time with an unneeded SI.


The FAA did not follow their own guidelines and I would wager they already made their mind up before reading the first report, anything that didn’t reaffirm their preconceived notion they ignored. We later sent a FOIA for their notes and found instances of pure fiction they made up out of who knows where.

Based on the FAA not following their own rules, willingness to lie in their own notes, I did not to report this to the office of professional responsibility, or the FAA workers home state medical board, for risk of retaliation.

Wow!!! This is EXACTLY what’s wrong with this program! I know you don’t want retaliation but I would urge you to report them asap!!

 

[HIMSSCREWED]

your posts fail the logic test. you say hims should not be one size fits all but then you state the after two years everyone should get a unrestricted medical. isnt that exactly one size fits all? in another post you say the reg say 2 years minimum, and ask why the FAA does not follow their own regs? doesn't the word minimum show that if they want 5 years they are still following their rules? the problem is there is no such thing as "recorded long term abstinence" all it shows is that you were clean when tested. the FAA has a high standard for disqualifing behavioral issues because there is no sure way of proving total compliance.

Incorrect on many levels but yes, a minimum of 2 years is their regulation. That should be the floor for sure but certainly no more than double for certain. At some point, reason has to kick in. Also, abstinence could be proven with the hair test. ‍

 

[Tools]

Well… the two years in a manner acceptable to the administrator. Vague, fine.

Testing don’t mean squat, hair test just as junk sad to say…

BUT… how about them LETTING YOU FLY AIRLINERS for those two years? Isn’t THAT clearly acceptable to them? Actually holding any class suffices…

They don’t have an acceptable reason. Just don’t. That ain’t right.

 

[bbchien]

And just like that, 10 percent of the airlines’ pilots are gone. Think the airlines are gonna allow that?

Don’t think the airlines tell the faa what to do?

Well if they cared, The US airlines would be able to have pilots on the H1-B. They don't.
My recent cyprus-born Purdue Grad had to leave his skywest Captaincy as he had no futher way to stay in the US.

We've come a long way from when the companies ruled the roost.

 

[CowboyJake]

I respect u @bbchien . But I have to admit sometimes I have a hard time translating what you say. Must be our geography

 

[Palmpilot]

I respect u @bbchien . But I have to admit sometimes I have a hard time translating what you say. Must be our geography

H1-B is a type of visa, if that's what you were confused by.

H-1B Cap Season | USCIS

The H-1B program allows companies and other employers in the United States to temporarily employ foreign workers in occupations that require the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and a bachelor’s degree or higher in the specific specialty, or its...

www.uscis.gov

 

[flyingron]

Well if they cared, The US airlines would be able to have pilots on the H1-B. They don't.
My recent cyprus-born Purdue Grad had to leave his skywest Captaincy as he had no futher way to stay in the US.

We've come a long way from when the companies ruled the roost.

Not H1-B, but Australian pilots can come in on an EB-2 visa and work.

 

[CowboyJake]

That makes a lot more sense thanks