Advice for flying to Los Angeles

3393RP said:
It is indeed, but I try to avoid that degree of pedantry.

Here's an example of that behavior.

:D



You correctly identified the make of the vehicle as a Dodge. Your miscue was incorrectly assigning the model Diplomat; it was a Monaco.
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Of course. But you must understand the law of the internet and SGOTI protocols compel me to respond. I had no choice.
 
So if I decide to go into the area VFR, what's a sane arrival route? Come in hot over the Pomona VOR, then direct KSMO at 3000 with a Bravo clearance over the KPOC and KEMT Deltas? Stay low and ask to transition the Deltas while remaining below the Bravo? Come around from the North side over/through the KBUR Charlie?
 
iamtheari said:
So if I decide to go into the area VFR, what's a sane arrival route? Come in hot over the Pomona VOR, then direct KSMO at 3000 with a Bravo clearance over the KPOC and KEMT Deltas? Stay low and ask to transition the Deltas while remaining below the Bravo? Come around from the North side over/through the KBUR Charlie?
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You ain’t gonna get Bravo Clearances through there. Going under the 2500 floor of the Bravo around there is an option. My recommendation is get flight following to assist you in your responsibility to see and avoid. Likely you’ll get a handoff from Center to Socal Approach. It’d look sumpin’ like this picture starting around POM. If ya wanna do some sight seeing, go via the Rose Bowl.

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flight following, direct from pomona is fine, descend to remain under the bravo. you can follow a pink line, radial, or interstate 10.

you won't ask for delta transitions, or charlie transitions, they're implicit with SoCal approach and are just mutually understood. Tell em where you're headed and they'll handle the rest. I try not to surprise them and advise before changing altitudes, unless they tell me otherwise. It can be hard to get a word in edgewise at times, so put your request in early, and bring A game radio work. :)

As you sail past on 125.5 wonder aloud how those controllers stay sane with the poor english intensive training going on near chino/pdz.
 
schmookeeg said:
flight following, direct from pomona is fine, descend to remain under the bravo. you can follow a pink line, radial, or interstate 10.

you won't ask for delta transitions, or charlie transitions, they're implicit with SoCal approach and are just mutually understood. Tell em where you're headed and they'll handle the rest. I try not to surprise them and advise before changing altitudes, unless they tell me otherwise. It can be hard to get a word in edgewise at times, so put your request in early, and bring A game radio work.

As you sail past on 125.5 wonder aloud how those controllers stay sane with the poor english intensive training going on near chino/pdz.
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Don’t key the mic whilst wondering aloud:fingerwag:. The 35 and a half Controllers you get if ya do the Rose Bowl Route are actually not sane.:rofl:
 
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My only advice is that you need to stop in KBIS and pick me up
 
KaiGywer said:
My only advice is that you need to stop in KBIS and pick me up
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I'll check with my logistics officer on that suggestion. You actually have an opportunity to see one of the screenings of the film that I will miss for a wedding, but would otherwise be at KBIS for. They're showing it outdoors at one of the filming locations on July 22.
 
iamtheari said:
So if I decide to go into the area VFR, what's a sane arrival route? Come in hot over the Pomona VOR, then direct KSMO at 3000 with a Bravo clearance over the KPOC and KEMT Deltas? Stay low and ask to transition the Deltas while remaining below the Bravo? Come around from the North side over/through the KBUR Charlie?
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As Schmookeeg said, you'll find SoCal is very accommodating and will work with you depending on the day and weather. If you're using airways all the better for a Class B clearance as they may ask for an intended route. Recommendation from the POM VOR, V264 > ITSME > V186 > DARTS > KSMO. At DARTS you could either have a clearance - which will not be hard as this is keeping you north and east of LAX - and a 5,000' Class B floor. This route will also give you some scenic stuff.

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Nick Geber said:
Depending on where you’re flying to/from KAPV has quite inexpensive fuel.
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I'm liking the fuel price a KAPV coupled with transient tie-downs at KSMO. How bad is the runway at KAPV? Skyvector claims 18/36 is "asphalt in fair condition" which could mean anything.
 
Albany Tom said:
I can't help you at all with the airports, but as far as the sanity level goes, I'd maybe consider finding an old Dodge Diplomat with a 440, buying a couple of fedoras and black suits, and driving to LA.
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Don't forget the sunglassses.
 
Albany Tom said:
FWIW I don't think it's nuts. I drove non-stop with three friends from Pittsburgh to Orlando in a Jeep Cherokee once, for a concert and a weekend at the beach. I wouldn't fly that far to see a movie, but I can understand it. Life's too short not to do weird/fun things once in a while. But if you fly, at least play a little Sam and Dave over the headsets.
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Couple weeks ago I drove Denver to Santa Fe, NM (only 5 hrs) - planned to fly but weather didn't even allow IFR. Went to the concert, turned around and went back home.
 
iamtheari said:
I'm liking the fuel price a KAPV coupled with transient tie-downs at KSMO. How bad is the runway at KAPV? Skyvector claims 18/36 is "asphalt in fair condition" which could mean anything.
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Runway is good. Never noticed any issues and I fly there once every 6 weeks or so.
 
Landing in Apple Valley to visit los angeles is like landing in Montauk to see manhattan.
 
schmookeeg said:
Landing in Apple Valley to visit los angeles is like landing in Montauk to see manhattan.
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I disagree. Montauk doesn't appear to have fuel available. Otherwise, sure. Landing short to save over $3/gal and stretch my legs before the last 70 miles to Santa Monica is a shame I'm willing to live with.
 
iamtheari said:
I disagree. Montauk doesn't appear to have fuel available. Otherwise, sure. Landing short to save over $3/gal and stretch my legs before the last 70 miles to Santa Monica is a shame I'm willing to live with.
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Ah, misread something along the way. no shame in the XC stop. If your final was APV and you dragged the last in via rental car, that'd be really strange and miserable.
 
KAPV runway absolutely fine (I pop in there often for bathroom break, cheapest fuel in the area and a lovely little airport cafe for breakfast). If you're too lazy to taxi to the cheap fuel area, you can phone the fuel company and they'll fuel it for you whilst you enjoy breakfast...
 
We ended up going straight into Santa Monica so now I’m looking at a short VFR hop from there to Apple Valley to get fuel for the trip home. Is there any reason why I can’t or shouldn’t fly KSMO direct Griffith Observatory direct Rose Bowl at 2500 (staying under the Bravo and the Burbank Charlie shelves) and then climb to 5500 direct KAPV?
 
iamtheari said:
We ended up going straight into Santa Monica so now I’m looking at a short VFR hop from there to Apple Valley to get fuel for the trip home. Is there any reason why I can’t or shouldn’t fly KSMO direct Griffith Observatory direct Rose Bowl at 2500 (staying under the Bravo and the Burbank Charlie shelves) and then climb to 5500 direct KAPV?
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Ari, I'm not trying to be glib and you certainly know this already... but in the West we have these things called "mountains" :). Your RoseBowl-Direct-KAPV has the San Gabriel Mountains (~8,800') to cross. I'd personally take a route something like RoseBowl-OUTCH-KAPV at 7500' (see below).

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wayneda40 said:
Ari, I'm not trying to be glib and you certainly know this already... but in the West we have these things called "mountains" :). Your RoseBowl-Direct-KAPV has the San Gabriel Mountains (~8,800') to cross. I'd personally take a route something like RoseBowl-OUTCH-KAPV at 7500' (see below).

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Thanks. I was focusing on the airspace first (as I have more time crossing mountains than I do crossing complicated airspace) but I definitely appreciate the terrain tip. I was looking at GAREY for the intermediate waypoint before turning north. As far as the first part, though, you don’t see any reason not to overfly the observatory at 2500?
 
As a newly minted PPL who had never picked up flight following in training (This should be mandatory training) I flew from KGEU to KCMA with FF. The LA controllers were so great to deal with. Very friendly and took great care of my little SEL self. PSP - KPOC - KVNY - KCMA at 8500ft with only a slight vector for traffic around KONT. Reverse course was basically the same at 9500ft. Stayed high enough to avoid airspace concerns.
 
Steamflyer said:
SMO landing fee comes in the mail and is on the order of $10. Same company and about the same price as TEB on the other coast.
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Teterboro is 21.25 for < 6500lbs and 31.25 for < 12500 (but greater than 6500)
 
When coming out of LA basin VFR, I go Rosebowl, follow 210 freeway to the I15 interchange, then up I-15 to KAPV for fuel at 7500. Using FF, they will hand you over to Joshua approach for descent to APV.
 
iamtheari said:
We ended up going straight into Santa Monica so now I’m looking at a short VFR hop from there to Apple Valley to get fuel for the trip home. Is there any reason why I can’t or shouldn’t fly KSMO direct Griffith Observatory direct Rose Bowl at 2500 (staying under the Bravo and the Burbank Charlie shelves) and then climb to 5500 direct KAPV?
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As others said, pick up flight following. They'll take the stress out of Class C airspace. We have typical SoCal weather right now, and you may have a bumpy ride with your planned route, depending on the time of day. You may want to head a little north for the Newhall pass as this is one of our preferred routes (V-386) to get up and over and then east to Apple Valley.

I hope you enjoyed your stay.
 
Supereri said:
As a newly minted PPL who had never picked up flight following in training (This should be mandatory training) I flew from KGEU to KCMA with FF. The LA controllers were so great to deal with. Very friendly and took great care of my little SEL self. PSP - KPOC - KVNY - KCMA at 8500ft with only a slight vector for traffic around KONT. Reverse course was basically the same at 9500ft. Stayed high enough to avoid airspace concerns.
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We're you given experience in and out of Class Bravo?
 
iamtheari said:
Thanks. I feel like Jethro Bodine whenever I fly into a big town. :)
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You too can be a double nought spy!

On the serious side, do not be intimidated by those who aren't able to follow Sam Kinison's rule that you should not live where there's no water.
 
Ventucky Red said:
We're you given experience in and out of Class Bravo?
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We did a VFR bravo transition over Sky Harbour (KPHX) once on our night cross country to KTUS, that's it. Flight following is such a great service it really should be taught specifically as part of PPL training
 
Albany Tom said:
You too can be a double nought spy!

On the serious side, do not be intimidated by those who aren't able to follow Sam Kinison's rule that you should not live where there's no water.
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"Bring em Uhauls, folks." -- one of my favorite bits, delivered tinderbox dry until he starts screaming. Amazing. :rofl:
 
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