Advice for flying to Los Angeles

iamtheari said:
What about a late lunch or early supper at one of those places? We can fly in Friday or Saturday but have to fly out on Tuesday.
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Waypoint closes at 3pm so it's not really supper. On the weekends and Wednesdays they have their special a tri tip sandwich which should not be missed. One of you better order it but it can be split. I must remind the group that KSMO is free to land at and has free transient fees as long as the "vector airport systems" bill sent to you in the mail is filed in the appropriate circular styled filing cabinet found in most people's home.
 
iamtheari said:
Maybe I wasn’t interested in that particular concert because I am tired of people asking me for weed and rhymes (two things I’ve never had) because of how closely I resemble Snoop. :)


What does Camarillo have to offer by way of breakfast? If one were planning a quick flight somewhere in the vicinity for a farewell meal or the like, is that the best choice? Not Catalina or something crazier?
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The food at Camarillo is head and shoulders above what you’ll find at Catalina. It does get busy though, so it’s best to arrive early if possible. If your wife enjoys a mimosa, Bloody Mary, or some other breakfast cocktail, then CMA is the place to be.

If you haven’t been to Catalina, then that’s also a great trip, but whole different vibe. Beautiful on a nice day, but lots of low clouds to deal with this time of year. By august, you should be looking at mostly severe clear days. IFR into CMA is easy, I’m not a fan of IFR to Catalina.

Actually, both locations are excellent.
 
pilotrick said:
I must remind the group that KSMO is free to land at and has free transient fees as long as the "vector airport systems" bill sent to you in the mail is filed in the appropriate circular styled filing cabinet found in most people's home.
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Hmm, expect that after a sufficient delay the folks at TEB at least would have an issue with that filing system. Don't know, but do know that the first time you land with a new N-number at TEB they come and "greet" you. Admittedly there's probably not a lot of GA pilots that land at both airports on opposite coasts with some regularity.
 
For the love of God, don't take public transport in LA. Bad enough you're going to Hollywood after dark. You'll see plenty of homeless dudes urinating in public. No need to sit next to them while they do it.

C.
 
Yes, definitely. If you lack the sense to detect the likely train-tinklers and sit next to them, don't take public transit -- anywhere. :lol:
 
iamtheari said:
Not Catalina or something crazier?
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Absolutely do Catalina!! Might be easiest on your departure from the LA area before heading back northeast.
My suggested flight itinerary:
  • fly from the northeast into KSMO (IFR, or VFR under the Bravo shelves), do all your local stuff (per @mr_happyland suggestions)
  • depart KSMO via the LA SFRA (see LA TAC Supplement), 3500'... then once Bravo shelves allow, climb to say 6500' for over the water to Catalina (KAVX)... have buffalo burgers for lunch
  • depart KAVX VFR to the east, once clear of the LA Bravo, depart toward the northeast and home
What an awesomely whimsical trip. Good for you!
Wayne
 
I'm looking at a fuel stop somewhere around Salt Lake City. Based on the restricted areas in roughly the size and shape of Nevada, it looks like I need to go over Las Vegas whether I'm VFR or IFR. It looks like a reasonable IFR route to Santa Monica would be FFU V21 MMM V394 POM V264 ITSME V186 DARTS KSMO at 12,000. And I'd expect to start getting rapid-fire vectors somewhere around POM and/or the GPS 21 approach from DARTS. Does that make sense?

wayneda40 said:
Absolutely do Catalina!! Might be easiest on your departure from the LA area before heading back northeast.
My suggested flight itinerary:
  • fly from the northeast into KSMO (IFR, or VFR under the Bravo shelves), do all your local stuff (per @mr_happyland suggestions)
  • depart KSMO via the LA SFRA (see LA TAC Supplement), 3500'... then once Bravo shelves allow, climb to say 6500' for over the water to Catalina (KAVX)... have buffalo burgers for lunch
  • depart KAVX VFR to the east, once clear of the LA Bravo, depart toward the northeast and home
What an awesomely whimsical trip. Good for you!
Wayne
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Thanks. I'll have a long day homeward no matter how I slice it, but I like the idea of lunch on Catalina. It looks like I can go direct KAVX-DAG at 3500 until the last Bravo shelf, then climb to 11500 for terrain, or go to 11500 right off the bat and fly over the Bravo. I'll be in a twin so I'm less concerned about altitude over the water than I would be in a single.
 
iamtheari said:
The movie is called End of the Rope and was selected for the Dances With Films festival this summer. I have a personal connection with the film and think it would be cool to see it in such a special venue. The personal connection also involves aviation, so flying myself there makes sense. (Not to mention saves time. The best airline route is 1 hour driving, 1 hour security/parking, 6:14 a.m. takeoff, and 6-1/2 hours to get to LAX if I sprint through MSP or 9-1/2 hours en route if I have time for breakfast during the layover.)

So far, the suggestions are:

KSMO. Pros: Cool airport on the coast, probably the last chance I'll have to see it. Cons: Farther from key destination on the ground
KVNY. Pros: Starred in a movie of its own. Cons: Not the closest option. Too many FBOs to choose from, I'm already confused.
KBUR. Pros: Closest to the destination. Cons: Its only pro isn't very exciting. Highest gas prices.
KEMT. Pros: Minimal complex airspace shenanigans. Cons: Looks like it's farther from the destination.

With that information, the points leaders for me are KSMO and KVNY. But more study is in order.
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I've flown into KSMO 4 times in the last couple of months. Great airport, costs Atlantic $40 facility fee, $10 security fee (waived with fuel but its really pricey) and the City charges $10. Just be aware (depending on where you're coming in from), if you're flying in IFR for RNAV 21, you'll want the Kimmo Three Arrival - they'll likely take you to DARTS at 7k and you'll have to drop a lot of altitude quickly to make the FAF at MOVVE. Hawthorne another option but a little farther away.
 
Nick Geber said:
I've flown into KSMO 4 times in the last couple of months. Great airport, costs Atlantic $40 facility fee, $10 security fee (waived with fuel but its really pricey) and the City charges $10. Just be aware (depending on where you're coming in from), if you're flying in IFR for RNAV 21, you'll want the Kimmo Three Arrival - they'll likely take you to DARTS at 7k and you'll have to drop a lot of altitude quickly to make the FAF at MOVVE. Hawthorne another option but a little farther away.
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That makes it sound like I should plan FFU V21 MMM V394 BASAL V12 PMD KIMMO3 KSMO and anticipate descending something like 4000 feet in 4.6 miles between DARTS and MOVVE. Doable but ... ick. Thanks for the heads-up!
 
iamtheari said:
That makes it sound like I should plan FFU V21 MMM V394 BASAL V12 PMD KIMMO3 KSMO and anticipate descending something like 4000 feet in 4.6 miles between DARTS and MOVVE. Doable but ... ick. Thanks for the heads-up!
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If you go to Santa Monica do not go to the FBO. The city has tie downs in front of the restaurant they closed down. They have a little gate which you can let yourself in and out of the airport. No facility fee. There still will be tie down fees and landing fees which should be ignored. Nobody will come greet you or anything like that.
 
Steamflyer said:
Hmm, expect that after a sufficient delay the folks at TEB at least would have an issue with that filing system. Don't know, but do know that the first time you land with a new N-number at TEB they come and "greet" you. Admittedly there's probably not a lot of GA pilots that land at both airports on opposite coasts with some regularity.
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I don’t know anything about TEB, whatever that is. I am based at smo and have been for 10 years so I have a pretty good idea of how it’s run. There is nobody to “greet” you at the airport. In fact the only way the city knows you land is by a transcription of the ATC feed. If you say the wrong tail number or even just omit the first digit their landing fee system will never be able to send you a bill. The FAA ATC and operations people hate the city and vice versa so they don’t work together.
 
pilotrick said:
If you go to Santa Monica do not go to the FBO. The city has tie downs in front of the restaurant they closed down. They have a little gate which you can let yourself in and out of the airport. No facility fee. There still will be tie down fees and landing fees which should be ignored. Nobody will come greet you or anything like that.
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Any fuel options for the city tie-down option? Any concerns about a safe and reliable place to catch an Uber?
 
schmookeeg said:
You can get a rail tour of much of LA and skip the traffic altogether -- land at HHR, hop onto the green (C) line metro rail which is just across the street, transfer to blue (A) line, then red (B) line to hollywood and highland. Day pass for the LA metro is $3.50. No car needed for this mission and plenty to look at on the ride. :)
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kayoh190 said:
Don't take the light rail - unlike other cities nobody takes public transportation in socal unless there are NO other options.

Lunch at Waypoint Cafe is great. Get the tri-tip special if it's available.
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Every Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday.....

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iamtheari said:
Any fuel options for the city tie-down option? Any concerns about a safe and reliable place to catch an Uber?
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If you can use UL94 it's self serve. If you need 100LL you need to call the FBO and they will send a truck over. It's best not to buy fuel at SMO. Just bring enough to make it out and get much cheaper fuel elsewhere. The city parking is on the left side of the runway in front of the old restaurant. Santa Monica is actually pretty safe so you can jut catch the uber right at the airport. There is just a gate that leads to the parking lot that says "authorized people only" so you might have to authorize yourself. It's not locked.
 
I can't help you at all with the airports, but as far as the sanity level goes, I'd maybe consider finding an old Dodge Diplomat with a 440, buying a couple of fedoras and black suits, and driving to LA.
 
Albany Tom said:
I can't help you at all with the airports, but as far as the sanity level goes, I'd maybe consider finding an old Dodge Diplomat with a 440, buying a couple of fedoras and black suits, and driving to LA.
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Depending on where you’re flying to/from KAPV has quite inexpensive fuel.
 
Regarding fuel options -
If you end up going to Camarillo at some point, then some of the cheapest gas in the LA area is at Santa Paula (KSZP). That would be about a 5 minute hop from CMA.

If you are gassing up for the trip home, I'd consider Big Bear (L35). Cheap gas and a great chance to land somewhere special. What I really like about it for outbound flights, is that it's at 6700 feet. Less gas to burn in the climb up to cruising altitude.
 
Albany Tom said:
I can't help you at all with the airports, but as far as the sanity level goes, I'd maybe consider finding an old Dodge Diplomat with a 440, buying a couple of fedoras and black suits, and driving to LA.
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It’s a very long drive. I actually did drive from LA to ND once and it was a memorable trip relevant to the movie I’m going to see. But this time, I’m flying.
 
iamtheari said:
It’s a very long drive. I actually did drive from LA to ND once and it was a memorable trip relevant to the movie I’m going to see. But this time, I’m flying.
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FWIW I don't think it's nuts. I drove non-stop with three friends from Pittsburgh to Orlando in a Jeep Cherokee once, for a concert and a weekend at the beach. I wouldn't fly that far to see a movie, but I can understand it. Life's too short not to do weird/fun things once in a while. But if you fly, at least play a little Sam and Dave over the headsets.
 
schmookeeg said:
I'd probably use Atlantic BUR.
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https://rampfee.me/search/kbur#Light_Piston_Single
Fees are reported half the price at Million Air. Van Nuys has more choices.

SMO ramp fees are 75+
https://rampfee.me/search/ksmo#Light_Piston_Single

Any of the 3 are an OK drive to the theater, as much as any drive in LA can be "ok". I think it depends on where you want to stay. Somewhere between the airport and the theater so you can stop and drop luggage before the show. Personally, I'd choose closer or at least not a far ride away from the theater.
 
JEB said:
Regarding fuel options -
If you end up going to Camarillo at some point, then some of the cheapest gas in the LA area is at Santa Paula (KSZP). That would be about a 5-minute hop from CMA.

If you are gassing up for the trip home, I'd consider Big Bear (L35). Cheap gas and a great chance to land somewhere special. What I really like about it for outbound flights, is that it's at 6700 feet. Less gas to burn in the climb up to cruising altitude.
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KCMA self-serve just re-opened.. $5.60 for 100LL, and yes KSZP, is still a deal at $5.25 for 100LL
 
Nobody has mentioned flying in to KFUL? I've flown there for a Disneyland run. I wouldn't fly to any LA based airport VFR though. Airspace and VFR rules are too cra cra.
 
Yes, coming from KHND the farthest in to LA I would go VFR is Whiteman. IFR is best, short of that, flight following.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Nobody has mentioned flying in to KFUL? I've flown there for a Disneyland run. I wouldn't fly to any LA based airport VFR though. Airspace and VFR rules are too cra cra.
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Fullerton is quite a long drive to Downtown LA.
 
Flying in the LA airspace is not difficult. Use Flight Following, pay attention to where the Bravo is and be sure you hear those magic words - "Cleared into the Class Bravo" if you need to go there. The SoCal controllers are very good and are willing to help if you can communicate your needs.
 
iamtheari said:
The movie is called End of the Rope and was selected for the Dances With Films festival this summer. I have a personal connection with the film and think it would be cool to see it in such a special venue. The personal connection also involves aviation, so flying myself there makes sense. (Not to mention saves time. The best airline route is 1 hour driving, 1 hour security/parking, 6:14 a.m. takeoff, and 6-1/2 hours to get to LAX if I sprint through MSP or 9-1/2 hours en route if I have time for breakfast during the layover.)

So far, the suggestions are:

KSMO. Pros: Cool airport on the coast, probably the last chance I'll have to see it. Cons: Farther from key destination on the ground
KVNY. Pros: Starred in a movie of its own. Cons: Not the closest option. Too many FBOs to choose from, I'm already confused.
KBUR. Pros: Closest to the destination. Cons: Its only pro isn't very exciting. Highest gas prices.
KEMT. Pros: Minimal complex airspace shenanigans. Cons: Looks like it's farther from the destination.

With that information, the points leaders for me are KSMO and KVNY. But more study is in order.
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If fuel prices are a concern take a short flight to Santa Paula (KSZP). Its a fun little uncontrolled strip in a valley that adds to the adventure of getting in but not overly complicated. Fuel prices there are always cheaper than anywhere else.
 
bflynn said:
https://rampfee.me/search/kbur#Light_Piston_Single
Fees are reported half the price at Million Air. Van Nuys has more choices.

SMO ramp fees are 75+
https://rampfee.me/search/ksmo#Light_Piston_Single

Any of the 3 are an OK drive to the theater, as much as any drive in LA can be "ok". I think it depends on where you want to stay. Somewhere between the airport and the theater so you can stop and drop luggage before the show. Personally, I'd choose closer or at least not a far ride away from the theater.
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This is basically fake news. There is no “ramp fees” if you park your airplane at the city owned tow downs at smo.
 
All good! I missed the make of the car. State Police where I group up ran Diplomats, and I knew it was a Dodge, but didn't know there even was such a thing as a Monaco.
 
kaiser said:
That’s a Dodge Monaco, not a Diplomat.
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It is indeed, but I try to avoid that degree of pedantry.

Here's an example of that behavior.

:D

Albany Tom said:
All good! I missed the make of the car. State Police where I group up ran Diplomats, and I knew it was a Dodge, but didn't know there even was such a thing as a Monaco.
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You correctly identified the make of the vehicle as a Dodge. Your miscue was incorrectly assigning the model Diplomat; it was a Monaco.
 
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[QUOTE="Sac Arrow, post: 3404995, And a hell of a lot closer than KCMA.[/QUOTE]

????????? - KCMA to Chinees Mann 48 miles, KFUL to the same 37.8 miles.....
 
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