Advice - don't add it up

bflynn

bflynn

Final Approach
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Brian Flynn
This afternoon I sat down and started redoing a baseline personal budget. I know our spending has been a bit out of control this year, but I've been putting off reigning it in. As part of that activity, I consolidated all my spending for the past year, across all accounts.

That "forced" me to add up how much I spent flying last year, which is just under 7.5 AMUs and around $156/hr.

There were some good times in that - Southern Soul at SSI with a buddy, running back and forth to JQF to visit my son at college, an initial checkout in a SR-20...beautiful airplane.

But overall, ouch.
 
With apologies to McCann-Erickson...

Avgas - $4.90 per gallon, Annual inspection - $2000, Foreflight subscription - $180, Flying the airplane yourself - priceless. ;)

(Your thread title is excellent advice!)
 
bflynn said:
There were some good times in that - Southern Soul at SSI with a buddy, running back and forth to JQF to visit my son at college
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This has nothing to do with your post, but gonna make the trip to Southern Soul again (been twice, actually was thinking about flying down there next Saturday for our anniversary at the suggestion of my wife for doing something different) and get up to JQF. I used to fly out of there when I lived there. Now want to fly up there and go eat at Casa Grande in Concord, my favorite Mexican restaurant while I lived there.
 
I recently went through a similar exercise.. sobering.. but at the same time, what a cool freaking hobby. These are great memories..

Spend it while you can and have the time and health and ability to do so.. I'd rather turn those dollars into awesome memories and experience than just watch it sit in a bank account
 
I closed my purchase justification and evaluation spreadsheet once I transferred money for the purchase, lol. Keeping my head in the sand. Which is weird, cuz I math everything. Cost of entertainment.
 
I treat my airplane operational costs like my car...if I need gas, I put gas in it...if I need to fix something, I fix it or get it fixed, if I see a new "gadget" and can afford it, I get it. I do not keep track of costs...just like for my car. There are FAR FEWER days ahead for me than are behind so while I can enjoy flying and afford it I will do what it takes to continue. After all..."it's only money"...
 
Boy, if there was ever a better example of “ignorance is bliss” I can’t think of it. I don’t know and truly don’t want to know my cost per hour. Congrats on your project, I just don’t wanna know.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I closed my purchase justification and evaluation spreadsheet once I transferred money for the purchase, lol. Keeping my head in the sand. Which is weird, cuz I math everything. Cost of entertainment.
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I originally had a partner in the Aztec. We felt compelled to track everything. Then I bought him out. And put an end to that depressing waste of time. :D
 
Tantalum said:
I recently went through a similar exercise.. sobering.. but at the same time, what a cool freaking hobby. These are great memories..

Spend it while you can and have the time and health and ability to do so.. I'd rather turn those dollars into awesome memories and experience than just watch it sit in a bank account
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Yup. If ya ain’t makin memories yer missin the point. And I want my kids cryin at my funeral, not smilin
 
When i think of all the money I’ve squandered on things that don’t really matter to me, airplanes and their associated costs seem like money well spent.
 
j1b3h0 said:
When i think of all the money I’ve squandered on things that don’t really matter to me, airplanes and their associated costs seem like money well spent.
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"I've spent half of everything I've ever earned on aviation. The rest was just wasted."
 
Gee, I sure wish i would have worked more overtime.................oh wait, flying was work................. After loosing any retirement i had planned for, I worked more so I could make a retirement. So i gave up a lot along the way. It turned out much better than I planned. Retirement that is. Some blind luck, a lot of hard work, and enough sacrifice. I can't make the time back. It's all about balance in life. Something i have never gotten right. So once you have your finances in order, and have (what is comfortable for you) a nest egg, enjoy it.
If its flying a retract instead of fixed gear, or a twin, or buying a ticket, go for it. Besides its good for the economy.
 
I think of it differently...it costs me $X for annual, hangar, and insurance whether I fly or not. Hourly costs are gas and oil.

so to steal @GRG55 ’s numbers and throw some more in, it costs about $4000/year to own the airplane, and $60/hr to fly it.

Makes it more palatable for me, and easier to budget.
 
I simply don’t add it up. While I have a budget for my plane, I don’t much care whether I am under or over running the budget. I do look at my costs at the mid point of every year but I rarely make any kind of adjustment. I’ve lived way too many years squeezing the buffaloes on nickels to make it where I am at financially, and I am not going to go back to worrying about whether I am spending too much on a hobby. If it turns out to be too much, I will go in another direction. In some sense, being retired and knowing what you have in your financial accounts is actually way more assuring than working for a living. No longer have to worry about getting fired; whether I am going to get a promotion or pay raise; or whether the CEO is/is not a knucklehead such that her/his poor decisions and leadership cost me my performance incentive.
 
This may be twisted logic, but I tell myself the money is going to support general aviation. Airports and FBOs need the fuel revenue, local A&Ps need a reason to exist and not get hired away by a union job with the majors, aircraft and avionics manufacturers need to keep selling airplanes and parts. Even though there has been some outsourcing and transfer of company ownership to foreign investors, a considerable amount of GA remains an American enterprise.

But, yeah I don’t keep track of expenses. As long as the bills are paid and the family is taken care of, the rest can go to flying as far as I’m concerned.
 
I don't look at the cost. I tend to be a happy person and counting the cost of my hobby might make me sad for a moment or possibly two ...
 
I also subscribe to the theory and practice that the best way to enjoy this expensive hobby is to have a plane that will fit your budget generally and not think about the specific expense items and don’t add it up.

But I guess if the budget requires it, this could provide the impetus to sell the plane and join a club or do rentals.
 
I've got a separate account for airplane stuff. Has its own checkbook and credit card. I fill it once a year and SWMBO buys into the total. She would freak if she saw the individual bills, but I stay under (the generous) budget. It's a bit more than what @bflynn added up :)
 
I’m so used to running a zero-based budget continuously that all numbers are always in it.

Probably the best tool out there for doing that is YNAB, but a spreadsheet works fine too.

Pretty much just a departmental or company wide P&L — if you’ve managed a group budget doing the house is easy.
 
Hmm. This year with all fixed and variable costs included, no avionics upgrades (so no capital expenses figured in), I came in at $144/hr. Not bad, and cheaper than all the rentals in the area. It's the avionics repairs and upgrades, and overhaul reserve that take you beyond rental costs. But still, quite reasonable. Annual was $1490 this year, and that included significant repairs to both main wheel pants. I did have some additional minor maintenance done throughout the year.

But I agree, if you obsess over the cost you would never fly. Most of us are maintaining aircraft that's are decades old. It takes some work to keep them flying.
 
bflynn said:
...I spent flying last year, which is just under 7.5 AMUs and around $156/hr.
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I spent over $11k and I am part of a flying club. I'd have flown more often if the weather was conducive to it. Best money spent. Personal "get out the house" and go to a safe beach.
 
If you count everything all in, I am at $565 an hour this year. And that is almost 100 hours for the year. But that includes sales tax on my new purchase, first year insane insurance on a retract and over $17k for upgrades.

I wouldn't trade it for anything, by the way.
 
I keep careful track of everything, but don’t divide it out by the hours. I just don’t want to know that final statistic.
 
find yourself a good plane, don't drop gobs of moolah into upgrades, and fly often. kicks renting right in it's wazoo. but still don't add it up.
 
Like Neal, I'm still in the "find everything wrong with the new airplane and get it to a point I'm satisfied with it" phase. I have an hourly rate I charge my budget, but it's going to be blown out of the water by first year repairs and insurance. I'm treating those like part of the capital cost, and am looking forward to the time when my hourly rate exceeds expenses and I can buy upgrades guilt free. Right now I'd be pushing $1000/hr, but that won't last (I hope :eek:). Still have a prop o/h, fuel tank rebuild, and first annual to get through though.

If that $156 includes gas, hangar, insurance, and reserves, seems to me you're flying pretty cheap. Costs me a bit more than that for the club archer, all in.
 
Like a wise person on here (or somewhere) once said: I have spent a horrendous amount of money on airplanes. The rest was purely wasted.
 
Doug Reid said:
Believe me...you did ok...no, you did really good !

I am an A&P/IA....do my own maintenance...2 airplanes...2 hangars....

I do not want to know my cost per hour :) .

Live and enjoy while you are able..
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I know about your 195... what's your other plane?
 
Jim K said:
If that $156 includes gas, hangar, insurance, and reserves, seems to me you're flying pretty cheap. Costs me a bit more than that for the club archer, all in.
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A variety of club planes
Warrior II
Cherokee 180
172S
172XP
SR-20

I think all of them had an autopilot, 430 or GTN650 avionics.
 
I rent in a commercial club(basically a discount for monthly fees), so no ownership cost. I have 2 budget items. 1. Generic flying including training, subscriptions, insurance, club fees, etc. about $5-7K/y. The other is under vacation traveling but that’s not exclusive to GA. Usually around 2k/y. Almost nothing this year because I accumulated a lot of free club time and was using it up
 
bflynn said:
A variety of club planes
Warrior II
Cherokee 180
172S
172XP
SR-20

I think all of them had an autopilot, 430 or GTN650 avionics.
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Ahhh...I thought you were adding up costs for your own plane. That's a pretty good mix...variety is the spice of life and all. I still haven't flown a Cessna product, but I kinda wish I had access for sightseeing purposes. I can't tell you how many times I've said "well, it just went under the wing" lol.

What's the Cirrus rent for? I assume it's pricier than the rest of the fleet?
 
Cirrus was 125 dry, the club got the plane and I got a checkout in it.

A lot of checkouts. One club I belonged to, you had to get a checkout for every kind of airplane. The result was a checkout basically for every airplane because they were all different.

No room in the budget for doing that again, will have to wait until my son is out of college.
 
bflynn said:
Cirrus was 125 dry, the club got the plane and I got a checkout in it.

A lot of checkouts. One club I belonged to, you had to get a checkout for every kind of airplane. The result was a checkout basically for every airplane because they were all different.

No room in the budget for doing that again, will have to wait until my son is out of college.
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did they also have a 90 day rule or something like that? so you had to do another flight with CFI if you haven't flown that plane in 90 days?
 
Quick calcs show hangar, annual, a couple of cylinders rebuilt, FF, Fuel, Oil changes and some other misc expenses ran almost $20G last year. And that doesn't even count hotel bills or restaurant meals while travelling.

But this year, we plan to travel more and I am confident I can improve on that number.
 
eman1200 said:
did they also have a 90 day rule or something like that? so you had to do another flight with CFI if you haven't flown that plane in 90 days?
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Of course.

But that was never an issue for me.
 
Okay, This aviation jargon sometimes has me lost...... WHAT is an AMU ?
 
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