Advertising yourself as an independent cfi? Where and how do you do it

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Neal Wilkinson

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I've been an independent cfi for about a year and a half now. I was located near the Seattle area, with a plane (150j) my students rented from a friend. Most my students have been people he knows, but the must I've had is 2 at the same time. When I lived 20 minutes from the plane and they were motivated, I could kinda-sorta do it full time. Now that I live 3 hours from the plane, it's much harder, especially with current mogas prices, one student with one flight a week made it impossible. It takes all day to fly 4 or 5 hours.

So, how and where do you independents find students? I don't have or use any of those Chinese/Russian data mining places like zuccbook. I'm just a cfi, no cfii or mei but I do have a complex endorsement from my com multi. I've applied at all the local flight schools, but only one nibble, and that was before I had any dual given. I've got a few hundred dual given, and a 2/2 pass on private checkrides, and still nothing. In the pnw I know the hot hitting season is early spring as schools, but Im not hearing anything back from schools.I've already lost 60 lbs, so I really need to get some more students.

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It's a bit surprising you are not being grabbed by a flight school There's a shortage of CFIs and every school I see or hear of has student waiting lists.

Beyond that, it's about networking.

For better or worse, it's 2023 and the social media you want to avoid (and POA is social media) is one of the main ways to let people know you're around and available. That may be even more true now than pre-COVID. We're not talking advertising and overnight success, but what basic networking looks like in the modern era. Not soliciting, but contributing in a way that people see you as a reliable source of information and want to come to you. You won't be famous by Friday, but that kind of thing feeds on itself and grows.

Have you looked into joining your local FAASTeam and putting on seminars and webinars? Again the idea is to be out there. Speaking of COVID, hopefully we'll be seeing live presentations coming back. I did a FAASTeam webinar last week. 300 attendees, but from all over the country and lacking the personal interaction and immediate feedback of a room of a dozen or two at a local FBO or hangar.

In the same vein, is there a local EAA chapter looking for speakers? Or a VMC or IMC Club? You don't have to do the presentation. Just be there and contribute.

Have you come across the book, "The Savvy Flight Instructor"? I think the last edition was something like 7 years ago, so some of the methodology is old school. But the underlying principles, which are not limited to aviation, are still valid.
 
Advertising to who?

You don’t have a plane within a reasonable driving distance. If you are seeking aircraft owners, you are not CFI-I, don’t have much instructing experience, have very limited complex experience and probably no HP or tail wheel time. That basically leaves you doing flight reviews and primary instruction to someone who has purchased a plane prior to getting their private and that’s a pretty small market.

I really don’t understand the no nibbles part unless you live in a rural area.
 
I assume by you being 3 hours from your friend's plane that you're no longer trying to use it for instructional purposes. Because that's just crazy. So, you are essentially in the situation I started in. I started by working for about a year at a flight school, until I gained a reputation and some CFI skills. Then I started working with a flying club, where I went to their monthly meetings. That transitioned into working solely with aircraft owners, and that was very successful. But the key is word of mouth marketing, and that takes you being "out there". People aren't going to hire some random CFI they know nothing about. But I've flown with pilots who were referred to me by friends of theirs that I flew with years ago - heck, there was one guy who said he was referred to me by a friend of his that I don't even remember ever meeting. He said I had given his friend a business card several years ago.

So, yes, word of mouth marketing is the key, and as @midlifeflyer states, it's 2023 - which means that "word of mouth" largely means "word of social media". Like it or not, on the various local pilot FB groups I'm on, I'm always seeing posts for "hey, I need a CFI for..."

Also, being only a CFI-A is pretty limiting. A lot of the work you can get as a CFII is instrument currency, including IPCs. It's surprising how many IFR rated pilots just don't fly any meaningful IFR, and are therefore always losing currency. I've had the opportunity to fly in many different aircraft over the years for this reason alone - and that leads to other work as well. For example, the pilot is not IFR current but put in a new GPS and glass panel and autopilot. Well, now you have a bunch of hours to spend with them getting them proficient at the new equipment AND getting them IFR current. It's good work (no checkride at the end).
 
It surprises me that no flight schools have expressed interest, but without at least an instrument instructor rating, maybe not so much. Are you working/planning on that?
 
I found my (independent) instructor through calling the FBO and asking about instructors.
 
MauleSkinner said:
It surprises me that no flight schools have expressed interest, but without at least an instrument instructor rating, maybe not so much. Are you working/planning on that?
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I am not an instrument instructor, but I have given more than 3,500 hours of dual to primary students and for Flight Reviews. I worked as an independent CFI as well as for two other flight schools before the current one.
 
Neal Wilkinson said:
I don't have or use any of those Chinese/Russian data mining places like zuccbook.
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Your potential students do. I'm not even sure what that rantlet was in reference to, it seemed to combine 3 unrelated concepts under the same tin foil hat.

I get most of my instruction work by being specialized and appointed by a type club. You might work towards similar if you really wanted to pursue this long term. if I understood you right, that you're 3 hours from seattle? yeah, move to where the money is. There are schools in socal/phoenix/florida who would have you flying more than you could stand.
 
No, I'm not moving back to Seattle. No, I'm not getting Facebook. Yes, I would love to get my cfii. But seeing as I literally have days where I only get to eat one small meal, paying for that ain't happening right now, do thanks for all the helpful responses.

Why no flight schools have offered any interest, I don't know. I've applied to at least 15 different flight schools in and around Seattle, But the only call back I've gotten was a week after my checkride. They all literally have a fat stack of cfi resumes, so this "cfi shortage" isn't here.

Being the Pacific Northwest, the training session is pretty limited.

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I don't know why my decision to not use Facebook is such a big hurdle for everyone to get over? I don't care what other people do or use, and there's TONS of people who don't have Facebook.

Drop it. Get over it.

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I've found having a niche helps. Granted independent CFI'ing isn't my day job and I also don't have a plane that I teach in, but differentiating yourself in the community is key. For me it's tailwheel. It's tough for me to compete with large flight schools for ratings... so I teach for them part time as well.

For run of the mill PPL training, lower cost or better service is about all that you can offer to help get your name out there. No matter what it does take time to build up a client base, but when you do the work generates itself.
 
Neal Wilkinson said:
I don't know why my decision to not use Facebook is such a big hurdle for everyone to get over? I don't care what other people do or use, and there's TONS of people who don't have Facebook.
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I don't facebook either but plenty of folks do. I don't judge them for it so perhaps they won't judge me for not. As far as finding students ... I recently found an independant CFI through my recent CFI who is now in training for a FO seat for the airlines. Word of mouth is a powerful thing ...
 
I've t tried my local area as well and a few charter places that fly 172's. I did my training at ATP, failed my cfi initial, because your cfi checkride is 3 weeks after your com single ride, and 2 weeks of that is in a ground class. They expect you to buy lessons, which my dpe HATED, and chewed me out for(even though everyone else did too, I know, I talked to them). He said it took him 6 months to write his lessons, but he was happy to be making 3 grand a day from them. But I will admit, I failed because I didn't take charge of my training, I let them, and I failed.

I'm sure a checkride failure is part of them choosing others over me, which is fine. And I'm sure there's an ATP stigma as well.



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Have you looked into flight schools in other areas that might be willing to help you with relocation expenses?
 
Mtns2Skies said:
For run of the mill PPL training, lower cost or better service is about all that you can offer to help get your name out there. No matter what it does take time to build up a client base, but when you do the work generates itself.
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That's my current route. I charge 50/hr in a 150 that he charges 100/hr for. So I'd say "low cost" is my current market. I don't know of anyone that cheap. My moving 3 hours away(after getting married) made things more difficult, the plane was down for a bit having a jug replaced after breaking a rocker, and that lost me a student. I'm not looking to get rich off my students, and I really want to help bring aviation to people who can't afford to drop 15k on their licenses.

I've thought about doing something like a 10 hour block weekend lessons with an up front charge, so I can go down, get a hotel and stay, so I don't have to spend a day driving. But the hotel eats most everything, as the airport is in the heart of Seattle at Boeing Field.

But yes, I guess you could say my market is plane owners right now. I've talked to the owner about moving the plane a bit closer to me, as he has a hangar at another airport with a few ultralights in it.

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MauleSkinner said:
You have that in your resume?
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The checkride failure? Yes I believe so, as I know it's something they'll ask and want to know about. At least I figure so. Should I not have a checkride failure on there?

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Are you willing to train in experimental aircraft?
 
Neal Wilkinson said:
The checkride failure? Yes I believe so, as I know it's something they'll ask and want to know about. At least I figure so. Should I not have a checkride failure on there?

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I wouldn’t. Let it come up in the interview, so you’ve got the opportunity to explain it to their satisfaction. If they actually care to ask at all.
 
Klaus M said:
Neal, Are you closest to Arlington, Harvey Field or are you down by Olimpia?
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My closest airport is Bellingham. Arlington is where the plane owner has a hangar. So Arlington or Harvey would be much closer

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Neal Wilkinson said:
I don't know why my decision to not use Facebook is such a big hurdle for everyone to get over? I don't care what other people do or use, and there's TONS of people who don't have Facebook.

Drop it. Get over it.

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Hey, you do what you want, but you did ask for advice, and that's some of the best, most useful advice for getting your name out. Refusing to use FB or other social media for marketing today is kind of like saying "I don't care if the airport is where the pilots hang out. I'm not going to go there to meet people."

Yes, of course there are successful CFIs out there who don't use social media. But that doesn't change the fact that that's where a whole lot of business comes from for a whole lot of CFIs (myself included). I would think that, if you're really struggling as much as you say, you'd be trying every possible angle to get business.

And asking for advice, then telling people to "Drop it. Get over it." when they give you advice you don't want to hear, isn't exactly the way to encourage them to give more advice.
 
RussR said:
Hey, you do what you want, but you did ask for advice, and that's some of the best, most useful advice for getting your name out. Refusing to use FB or other social media for marketing today is kind of like saying "I don't care if the airport is where the pilots hang out. I'm not going to go there to meet people."

Yes, of course there are successful CFIs out there who don't use social media. But that doesn't change the fact that that's where a whole lot of business comes from for a whole lot of CFIs (myself included).

And asking for advice, then telling people to "Drop it. Get over it." when they give you advice you don't want to hear, isn't exactly the way to encourage them to give more advice.
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I asked for help, under my circumstances. Saying to use Facebook is like telling a fish to stop being a fish. I don't mind networking, or other forms of social media, but I've never found Facebook to be helpful. I've tried.

My question was about how to advertise and get students without Facebook.

I asked for help, not using Facebook. It doesn't matter why, or how, but that's the situation

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Neal Wilkinson said:
I asked for help, under my circumstances. Saying to use Facebook is like telling a fish to stop being a fish. I don't mind networking, or other forms of social media, but I've never found Facebook to be helpful. I've tried.

My question was about how to advertise and get students without Facebook.

I asked for help, not using Facebook. It doesn't matter why, or how, but that's the situation

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I can see why no one is hiring you. Good luck.
 
Isn't the CFI initial around 1/3 first time pass rate? I wouldn't put on the resume. Most likely every school has CFI's that didn't pass the first time around.
 
Well....if you are a fish but want to be a bird...do bird stuff. Don't continue to do fish stuff and lament on the fact that bird opportunities are not coming your way. Or, learn to be happy as a fish.
 
What I'm hearing is, there's not a single student outside of Facebook, and not a single person has a life outside of Facebook. Thanks for the help.

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Neal Wilkinson said:
What I'm hearing is, there's not a single student outside of Facebook, and not a single person has a life outside of Facebook. Thanks for the help.

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Correct...that is what you are hearing, however, not what is being said. You were advised on the most common way, considering the current trends toward social media, to improve your broadcast for your available services. Yes, IMO Facebook sucks and I have no personal account and likely will never have one. But, my business does and it has proved to be a very valuable marketing tool...so I accept that. With the limitations you place on yourself my best advice would be old school social media- write your info on index cards and hit all the FBO bulletin boards in the radius of which you're willing to travel.
 
I doubt that failing a CFI checkride would prevent anyone from hiring you. The failure rate for the initial CFI has historically been quite high, especially those who flew with FAA inspectors. Mine was with a DPE, and he was very tough. Six-hour oral. I passed, thankfully, on the first try, but none of the three flight schools I have worked at ever asked about it.
 
Neal Wilkinson said:
My closest airport is Bellingham. Arlington is where the plane owner has a hangar. So Arlington or Harvey would be much closer

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When you talked to the flight schools at Arlington Airport why didn't they hire you on the spot? What did Wild Blue Aviation say? What about Arlington Flight Service what was there reason for not hiring you?
 
Neal Wilkinson said:
I've been an independent cfi for about a year and a half now. I was located near the Seattle area, with a plane (150j) my students rented from a friend. Most my students have been people he knows, but the must I've had is 2 at the same time. When I lived 20 minutes from the plane and they were motivated, I could kinda-sorta do it full time. Now that I live 3 hours from the plane, it's much harder, especially with current mogas prices, one student with one flight a week made it impossible. It takes all day to fly 4 or 5 hours.

So, how and where do you independents find students? I don't have or use any of those Chinese/Russian data mining places like zuccbook. I'm just a cfi, no cfii or mei but I do have a complex endorsement from my com multi. I've applied at all the local flight schools, but only one nibble, and that was before I had any dual given. I've got a few hundred dual given, and a 2/2 pass on private checkrides, and still nothing. In the pnw I know the hot hitting season is early spring as schools, but Im not hearing anything back from schools.I've already lost 60 lbs, so I really need to get some more students.

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Click to expand...
A little humility goes a long way. By seeking advice on a public forum like this, you must accept the fact that many of the replies will not be what you want to hear. It is important to realize that some of those replies may contain the most valuable insights and advice that you will find anywhere. Don’t alienate those who genuinely wish to help, and who spend some of their valuable personal time considering and replying to your posts. That said…

A few observations:

I note a lack of attention to details, reflected in the spelling/grammar/punctuation of your initial post. There might actually be people on this very forum who are seeking a CFI. I’ve noted that the very best aviators I’ve had the good fortune to work with have ALL been attentive to details, large and small. Each and every message you post reflects on you, and putting your best foot forward would be wise.

The fact that you mentioned your failed checkride on your resume indicates that you are honest and forthright, a character attribute that we can all appreciate.

Another character trait suggested by your posts is obstinateness. Whether this attribute is a plus or minus depends on whether your attitudes and behaviors are helping or hindering you in achieving your goals.

Suggestions:

Reassess your commitment to aviation. Do a little soul-searching. Why do you want to fly? Why do you want to instruct? How important is this pursuit to you, on a fundamental level?

Remove any reference to failed checkrides from your resume. Don’t mention the pink slip unless asked. Let prospective employers get to know you first. Show them the very best that you have to offer. If you are able to make a favorable impression and gain a bit of trust and confidence, employers will be much more likely to hire you despite the failed checkride—especially if you portray it as a learning experience.

Finding prospective clients—people who have a real interest in learning to fly and have the time and funds to actually do it—is not easy. Where would such people be, in your area? You could market yourself on Craigslist, create a TikTok/YouTube/Instagram presence. You could wheat-paste flyers around town like a garage band. You could join a country club and network on the tee box… In 2023, in-person contact opportunities with potential clients are fewer and farther between than previous decades. Meanwhile, you can touch the lives of billions worldwide, right from your smartphone.

If you want to work cheap to make aviation affordable for those with limited funds, you will likely need another source of income. When I was working as an independent instructor, I worked on a sliding scale and had other work.

If you are unable to attract enough clients in your immediate area, and if you are truly committed, consider relocating. Never easy; sometimes necessary.

Lastly, regarding FB: From a personal perspective, I’m in your corner. I loathe FB. And, if I were an independent contractor attempting to market my services to no one but myself, a FB-free existence would work out just fine. But if I were trying to build a career as an independent contractor (CFI, musician, blacksmith, shaman, whatever), I would suck it up and build a FB presence with the aim of presenting myself as a competent, expert, reliable professional, and reaching-out as far and wide into the pool of prospective clients as possible. Considered from another angle, if you were CEO of your CFI company and had to answer to a board of directors, your refusal to utilize one of the most effective (and cheap) means of reaching a large population of potential clients would likely get you fired.

But then, what do I know?
 
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