ADS-B on commercial flights

Mahneuvers

Mahneuvers

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Mahneuvers
I'm flying commercially for the first time since buying my GDL-50 and Garmin Pilot. I was thinking of using the ADS-B to monitor the flight, in particular routes, approaches, etc. I assume the airlines would have no problem w/ this. I also assume the TSA wouldn't care. One time I flew with a Raspberry PI w/ a 3" touch screen and TSA had a lot of questions about what it was. I'd hate to have my GDL confiscated at the gate.
 
I recall reading in American Airlines in seat magazine GPS devices were prohibited. But that was years ago...
 
Scott Edson said:
I recall reading in American Airlines in seat magazine GPS devices were prohibited. But that was years ago...
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I have to imagine that is dated as most every phone these days is a GPS device. I'm most worried about the TSA confiscating it. At least w/ the Raspberry PI, I could turn it on and demonstrate a functioning device. With the GDL-50, turning on simply turns on a light.
 
I just checked American Airlines website and it does not prohibit GPS device. Only the Samsung Galaxy 7 is prohibited.
 
I've carried a Sentry with me many times as I ferry airplanes around. Never been asked about it.

Now, as far as using it while in flight, I don't know where that fits into the "use of portable electronic devices". It's a GPS receiver, yes, but it's also a wifi transmitter.

I had mine in my backpack carry-on one time. Apparently when loading it into the overhead bin, something in the bag pressed the on button. Later on the flight, I did open my iPad for other reasons and saw it was connected. Huh. Well, while it's on, let me check out Foreflight. Sure enough, it was getting a great GPS and ADS-B signal from the overhead bin!
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
I have to imagine that is dated as most every phone these days is a GPS device. I'm most worried about the TSA confiscating it. At least w/ the Raspberry PI, I could turn it on and demonstrate a functioning device. With the GDL-50, turning on simply turns on a light.
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you could tell TSA that it is a WiFi repeater of sorts.
 
If you have internet on board, you can pick up the assigned flight route from flight aware and put that in your favorite EFB program. Caveat, you'll of course need all the relevant nav maps downloaded.

Getting a usable GPS signal on board except at a window seat is nearly impossible, but at a window seat the GPS on the tablet (assuming it has it built in), will often be enough.
 
I've used ForeFlight to watch our airline flight progress. Kinda cool, but once it _definitely_ freaked out the little old lady seated near me. She was about to report me as some sort of terrorist with some sort of strange device "Can you control the plane with that?"
In the interest of simplicity, I told her "it's just a video game" and turned it off.
Legally no problem, but there's the potential of annoying explaining.
 
G-Man said:
I've used ForeFlight to watch our airline flight progress. Kinda cool, but once it _definitely_ freaked out the little old lady seated near me. She was about to report me as some sort of terrorist with some sort of strange device "Can you control the plane with that?"
In the interest of simplicity, I told her "it's just a video game" and turned it off.
Legally no problem, but there's the potential of annoying explaining.
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I hope you didn’t start doing math on the plane after that. That’s a one-way ticket to the interrogation chamber.
 
I hold my phone screen against the window every 10 minutes or so to get a GPS fix.

A few months ago there was a thread on here with someone asking what kind of GPS receiver would enable him to receive a signal from the aisle seats. He was quite indignant with my suggestion that the solution to his problem was to move to a window seat.
 
You’d think the TSA wouldn’t do anything about it, since you could be bringing it with you for a “real reason” (ie to use it as a pilot flying an aircraft when you get to your destination).
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
I have to imagine that is dated as most every phone these days is a GPS device. I'm most worried about the TSA confiscating it. At least w/ the Raspberry PI, I could turn it on and demonstrate a functioning device. With the GDL-50, turning on simply turns on a light.
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No one is going to confiscate it.

The only real issue is that you are supposed to put your device on ‘airplane mode’ once they close the door which disables the gps.
 
Fearless Tower said:
No one is going to confiscate it.

The only real issue is that you are supposed to put your device on ‘airplane mode’ once they close the door which disables the gps.
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Airplane mode doesn't disable GPS on any of my devices.
 
If you are getting internet service on the flight, ForeFlight gives internet ADS-B traffic. Just follow the plane that you’re riding in.

That said, it doesn’t sound all that entertaining to me. If they want to entertain me, they can put me in the left front seat. I’ll then be entertained by figuring out what all the switches and buttons do.
 
I left my ADS-B at home. At a window seat, Garmin Pilot on my Android phone using built in GPS worked fine (sans traffic of course). I was surprised at how much VOR navigation the big guys use. I'm guessing the pilots were cleared for the visual for 18C into Charlotte b/c if we flew the ILS we were on two occasions lower than we should have been. The pilots had bugged out before I reached the front of the plane to give them a friendly ribbing :)
 
A lot of our routes are still filed via jet routes and therefore VORs but navigation is done by GPS enroute.
At my airline, even if we accept a visual we are required to tune and use the ILS if available. I’m not sure what you saw, maybe they were being vectored and assigned an altitude lower than what’s published for the FAF?
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
I'm guessing the pilots were cleared for the visual for 18C into Charlotte b/c if we flew the ILS we were on two occasions lower than we should have been.
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How do you know that? If you're basing that on the altitude shown on Garmin Pilot, understand that it's telling you GPS altitude, which is NOT equivalent to indicated altitude, which is what the pilots are flying. I've seen 200 feet difference, easily.
 
RussR said:
How do you know that?
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My GP altitude was tracking pretty close to the altitude reported in the tracking software running in the entertainment system in the seat in front of me. But ya, I figure that system is also GPS altitude so they are both inaccurate hence the friendly ribbing I would have given the pilots had they stuck around.
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
My GP altitude was tracking pretty close to the altitude reported in the tracking software running in the entertainment system in the seat in front of me. But ya, I figure that system is also GPS altitude so they are both inaccurate hence the friendly ribbing I would have given the pilots had they stuck around.
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I would not have taken that as friendly. Before a passenger in the back confronts the crew, you really need to have your facts straight.
 
MBDiagMan said:
If you are getting internet service on the flight, ForeFlight gives internet ADS-B traffic. Just follow the plane that you’re riding in.
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Exactly what I did just last week. FF will even show you the exact flight plan filed by searching the flight # eg WN4140
 
I would advise against it.. people are used to seeing phones and laptops, they're not used to seeing this:

upload_2021-10-7_14-17-36.png

a little electronic device with an antenna and blinking lights.. nor are they used to seeing sectionals and things like that

The chances of someone having an issue are relatively low, but why risk giving yourself a lot of talking and explaining to do? As mentioned above, Italian Ivy League economists have had their days ruined for doing math, menu costs and price dispersion

Leave airplane geek stuff at home...
 
Tantalum said:
I would advise against it.. people are used to seeing phones and laptops, they're not used to seeing this:

View attachment 100742

a little electronic device with an antenna and blinking lights.. nor are they used to seeing sectionals and things like that

The chances of someone having an issue are relatively low, but why risk giving yourself a lot of talking and explaining to do? As mentioned above, Italian Ivy League economists have had their days ruined for doing math, menu costs and price dispersion

Leave airplane geek stuff at home...
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And TV and movies have taught everyone that bombs have blinking lights! :rolleyes:
 
Busflyer said:
A lot of our routes are still filed via jet routes and therefore VORs but navigation is done by GPS enroute.
At my airline, even if we accept a visual we are required to tune and use the ILS if available. I’m not sure what you saw, maybe they were being vectored and assigned an altitude lower than what’s published for the FAF?
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I had an amusing conversation with a regional pilot I know the other day. He described how the gps went out and they were cleared for a VOR route and neither of them could remember how to program the FMS to track a VOR so they used their iPads and to determine headings and nobody was the wiser.
 
Palmpilot said:
And TV and movies have taught everyone that bombs have blinking lights! :rolleyes:
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Or countdown timers, which almost must reach "1" before the hero shuts them down.

Netflix has an amusing little documentary: "Attack of the Hollywood Clichés" which catalogs this and a number of common Hollywood tropes.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81440982

It's worth it just for the history of the Wilhelm Scream.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Salty said:
I had an amusing conversation with a regional pilot I know the other day. He described how the gps went out and they were cleared for a VOR route and neither of them could remember how to program the FMS to track a VOR so they used their iPads and to determine headings and nobody was the wiser.
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Either you made that up, or the person telling you the story was.
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
I'm guessing the pilots were cleared for the visual for 18C into Charlotte b/c if we flew the ILS we were on two occasions lower than we should have been. The pilots had bugged out before I reached the front of the plane to give them a friendly ribbing
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Without hearing the instructions from ATC, how do you know what altitude they should have been at?

The reason you're getting some flak is that all of us airline guys have stood at the door saying goodbye to passengers and hear the occasional smartass comment, and 99.9% of the time the passenger has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Not saying that's the situation here necessarily, but we're so used to eye rolling moments ("which one of you is the Navy pilot? har har har!") that we tend to be shocked when someone either makes a knowledgable comment or a joke that we haven't heard 5,000 times before. :)
 
kayoh190 said:
...all of us airline guys have stood at the door saying goodbye to passengers and hear the occasional smartass comment...
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I understand. I don't know how I would have phrased it but I like to think my delivery wouldn't have come across smart ass. But who knows? It wouldn't be the first time I joked around w/ someone who didn't realize I was joking.

In the 80s was the first time I heard the expression 'packages don't complain'. I've heard it several times since from seasoned pilots. I can see how pilots having to routinely deal with unappreciative passengers might develop a short fuse over time and assume they are being attacked. I'm not saying Kritchlow is one of them, but that is what I was thinking when I responded "point taken".
 
kayoh190 said:
Without hearing the instructions from ATC, how do you know what altitude they should have been at?
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I was watching our progress over the approach plate. We had already turned inbound after the IAF. I'm sure the discrepancy was GPS altitude as previously mentioned.
 
I have had one flight attendant get pizzy with me for quietly running foreflight on my iPad at altitude and made me shut it down. (?!?)

But that has been the exception.

And I would never worry about TSA clerks with these devices, as there is no rule that prohibits them. They are typically more worried about my bag of jellybeans than any real security threat.
 
Yep. Had the same thing happen to me before. Were they wrong? Absolutely. Is it worth getting into a pi$$ing match over? Not for a minute.
 
Salty said:
Why?
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Don’t know about the RJ, but on the Boeings you use the FMC to input the route regardless of whether you’re navigating by GPS or VOR. If the GPS went out you’d get a warning and obviously couldn’t use a GPS approach but the enroute navigation would automatically fall back to INS with updating from the VORs that the box tunes automatically.

My guess is he was just messing with you.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
...I have had one flight attendant get pizzy with me for quietly running foreflight on my iPad at altitude and made me shut it down...
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I created a flight plan with a 172 I had already configured in GP. GP must have maximum decent rates based on aircraft or something b/c on the approach GP would give me the "terrain alert! pull up! pull up!" alarm even though we were 6K AGL. Needless to say, some nearby passengers looked my way. Good thing I can quickly mute my phone! :)
 
Busflyer said:
Don’t know about the RJ, but on the Boeings you use the FMC to input the route regardless of whether you’re navigating by GPS or VOR. If the GPS went out you’d get a warning and obviously couldn’t use a GPS approach but the enroute navigation would automatically fall back to INS with updating from the VORs that the box tunes automatically.

My guess is he was just messing with you.
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CRJ is the same. As long as the FMS is also not inop, you can still navigate normally. When we had the FMS database outage/glitch a few years ago, that was fun getting routed VOR to VOR and not being to accept direct…
 
Maybe I didn’t understand what he was saying. He might have been messing with me, but it’s not something he’s known for.
 
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