ADHD pickle, possible childhood diagnoses found after receiving first class medical.

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Anonymous OP

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Title: I don't know what to do here. I've already received my first class and have begun applying to flight schools when I discovered a bottle of ADHD meds from 2008, when I would have been in elementary school, the name of the prescribing doctor is no longer legible (but it was probably my pediatrician at the time). I asked my parents about it and neither of them remembered for certain if I had a diagnoses, but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point. My parents said that the school I was attending had a doctor that recommended medication because I was a rowdy student in class. My parents said that they didn't recall receiving any tests or anything. As far as I was aware I was just taking a pill every morning before I went to school, never on non-school days, they just said I had to take it to make me a better student and since I was a dumb kid at the time I didn't think anything of it. None of my parents have any ADHD test results in their files for me.

When I was filling out the medical it's not something that occurred to me, as I stopped taking the pills over a decade ago. I've been a good student since highschool and graduated university on time, never felt like I had anything like it. The advice I have heard from people I've spoken to about it is just to keep quiet and not go digging for things that can cause problems, if I can't prove I have anything neither can they. The other advice is to track down my scripts and take the battery before I renew my medical, and come with the proper documentation. really have no idea what to do here.
 
Followup question, if I were to go to my medical renewal and declare this, what would I do if I cannot locate my original test result and documents? The supposed diagnoses would have given by a doctor who came to the school, not someone I was referred to by my pediatrician at the time. I would be able to get my medical records from my pediatrician but I don't know if I would be able to track down the guy who came to my school.
 
My strong suspicion is that if you declare this you will be going down the special issuance and HIMS evaluation route. That will require 6-18 months and $5-10k to complete. If you plan on flying professionally that may be the direction you want to pursue.

Perhaps see my FAA medical information page at http://tinyurl.com/faaMedicalInfo and await further advice from the excellent AMEs who have been pinged above.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
My strong suspicion is that if you declare this you will be going down the special issuance and HIMS evaluation route. That will require 6-18 months and $5-10k to complete. If you plan on flying professionally that may be the direction you want to pursue.

Perhaps see my FAA medical information page at http://tinyurl.com/faaMedicalInfo and await further advice from the excellent AMEs who have been pinged above.
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I think this may be the route I choose, just for my own sanity's sake, don't want to go through my career fearing grounding at the drop of a hat. Should I reach out to a HIMS AME and just appear to my renewal appointment with the proper docs in hand? or should I call now and re-start the process entirely.

I do fear the FAA potentially permanently grounding for failure to disclose, even though it was an honest mistake. Pilots I know in real life keep telling me to shut it and keep flying though, which is stressful. If anyone has any experience with AOPA or any similar confidential consulting I would love to hear it.
 
I don't believe a permanent grounding is a potential outcome. As expensive as this could be, I agree the answer is to bring this into the open and you'll want an AME's consult in figuring out the path for doing it.

This is one of the things I hate about the FAA medical. "Have you ever in your life..." and most of us don't know what happened when we were kids. I wonder how many didn't write their tonsil surgery down...
 
ADHD meds are very easily traceable, I would try to look at the bottle for any other information. Is there a phone number to the pharmacy? They will be able to get the prescribing doctors info. Also, there is an online database that doctors and nurses can login to to see pharmacy records. (I asked my doctor to print out all my adderall records when I tried for a medical a few years ago)
 
Anonymous OP said:
I think this may be the route I choose, just for my own sanity's sake, don't want to go through my career fearing grounding at the drop of a hat. Should I reach out to a HIMS AME and just appear to my renewal appointment with the proper docs in hand? or should I call now and re-start the process entirely.

I do fear the FAA potentially permanently grounding for failure to disclose, even though it was an honest mistake. Pilots I know in real life keep telling me to shut it and keep flying though, which is stressful. If anyone has any experience with AOPA or any similar confidential consulting I would love to hear it.
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I agree permanent grounding seems unlikely. I think the appointment with a HIMS AME is fine so long as done as a consult - see link above on how to do that. PM me if you would like to discuss.
 
I would carefully read the declaration on the bottom of the Medxpress form and fill it out accordingly. "Complete and true to the best of my knowledge . . . ."
 
Clip4 said:
I’d toss them in the trash and go on with life.
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This is the advice I have received from a CFI and other pilots, and I will lay out the case for it. The bottle is barely legible, doesn't even show name of drug, all you can read is my last name and a date, who knows if it was a prescription for ADHD. If I went to a HIMS AME I wouldn't be able to produce any documents from a psychiatrist saying I have this condition, any prescription records, or academic records from the time (school I went to at that time has since shuttered). I certainly would not be able to call up my doctor and get a script for ADHD meds without undergoing a litany of tests. The only thing I would be able to produce is a letter from my current physician who would say I saw no indication of ADHD and my patient never mentioned it.

Again I would like to get the advice of a HIMS AME on something like this. The process seems to require a lot of documented history to be given to the HIMS AME which I simply do not have. I also would like to know if this is something that can wait until my next FAA physical checkup, and if I can preemptively take the battery of tests before that time.

I appreciate the replies.
 
Anonymous OP said:
The bottle is barely legible, doesn't even show name of drug, all you can read is my last name and a date, who knows if it was a prescription for ADHD.
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You said in your first post, "...I discovered a bottle of ADHD meds..."

Why did you assume they were ADHD meds?
 
Anonymous OP said:
This is the advice I have received from a CFI and other pilots, and I will lay out the case for it. The bottle is barely legible, doesn't even show name of drug, all you can read is my last name and a date, who knows if it was a prescription for ADHD. If I went to a HIMS AME I wouldn't be able to produce any documents from a psychiatrist saying I have this condition, any prescription records, or academic records from the time (school I went to at that time has since shuttered). I certainly would not be able to call up my doctor and get a script for ADHD meds without undergoing a litany of tests. The only thing I would be able to produce is a letter from my current physician who would say I saw no indication of ADHD and my patient never mentioned it.

Again I would like to get the advice of a HIMS AME on something like this. The process seems to require a lot of documented history to be given to the HIMS AME which I simply do not have. I also would like to know if this is something that can wait until my next FAA physical checkup, and if I can preemptively take the battery of tests before that time.

I appreciate the replies.
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I've given this advice professionally many times, but you're getting it free, so it may be worth what you paid: It's always easier to talk your way into a problem than it is to talk your way out of one.

You can make this really complicated or really simple. If I were you, I'd ask myself whether, to the best of my knowledge, I ever had or was diagnosed with ADHD. If the answer was "yes," I'd disclose it.
 
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When I was 7 years old the doctor may have told my mother I was bat **** nuts. Fortunately mom never told me.
 
[QUOTE="Lindberg ...

You can make this really complicated or really simple. If I were you, I'd ask myself whether, to be best of my knowledge, I ever had or was diagnosed with ADHD. If the answer was "yes," I'd disclose it.[/QUOTE]

Agree. I do not see this as a full blown HIMS case. A psychiatric eval maybe. Get it over with or it will always haunt you.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The first rule in maintaining plausible deniability is never talking.
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Yes, the OP may be posting anonymously here, but I think a legal action could obtain identifiers from PoA, unless they are not even recorded. Additionally, the OP mentions talking to others.

Likely needs to be resolved at this point.
 
lbfjrmd said:
[QUOTE="Lindberg ...

You can make this really complicated or really simple. If I were you, I'd ask myself whether, to be best of my knowledge, I ever had or was diagnosed with ADHD. If the answer was "yes," I'd disclose it.
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Agree. I do not see this as a full blown HIMS case. A psychiatric eval maybe. Get it over with or it will always haunt you.[/QUOTE]

Should I call up my local HIMS guy for a consult ASAP then? Or wait until I have to renew my medical. Ideally would like to show up to my next medical with this sorted out to avoid any grounding.
 
Anonymous OP said:
Should I call up my local HIMS guy for a consult ASAP then? Or wait until I have to renew my medical. Ideally would like to show up to my next medical with this sorted out to avoid any grounding.
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Yes, I would start the process of the consult and required work ups now. These can take some time to arrange, get records, and perform required testing and evaluation. You can then also choose the timing of any gaps without a medical for your convenience.
 
lbfjrmd said:
[QUOTE="Lindberg ...

You can make this really complicated or really simple. If I were you, I'd ask myself whether, to be best of my knowledge, I ever had or was diagnosed with ADHD. If the answer was "yes," I'd disclose it.
Click to expand...

Agree. I do not see this as a full blown HIMS case. A psychiatric eval maybe. Get it over with or it will always haunt you.[/QUOTE]

Also, what differentiates a full blown HIMS case from a psychiatric eval. I'm gonna call my local HIMS guy tomorrow and see what he says.
 
Would it be worth it to meet with an independent psychiatrist before going to the FAA just so I can get a baseline of where I am at? I haven't been treated for ADHD in over a decade so I don't have any current documentation about it. Would getting checked up benefit me if the psychiatrist said I wasn't showing/didn't have ADHD. I really believe I was misdiagnosed as a child.
 
No. The expertise for that lies in the neuropsychologist. He/She "quantifies" how your brain works, and it will work just FINE.
 
bbchien said:
No. The expertise for that lies in the neuropsychologist. He/She "quantifies" how your brain works, and it will work just FINE.
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Ah I meant must've meant neuropsychologist, don't really know the difference.
 
Forget about it and move on. You made it through your higher education years without the meds so you're obviously NOT ADHD. I've seen way too many horror stories with the OKC medical division to EVER consider giving them a loose thread to start tugging on. You answered truthfully "to the best of your knowledge" when you got your medical. That's your story. Period.
 
Guest said:
Ah I meant must've meant neuropsychologist, don't really know the difference.
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Neuropsychologist is a psychologist with a PhD and does testing and psychological assessment. Psychiatrist or neuropsychiatrist has an MD and treats patients.
 
Lindberg said:
How did you get to this from having a decades-old illegible pill bottle and no recollection from anyone in your family of you ever being tested or diagnosed?
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I think he was trying to be extremely cautious when dealing with an organization (the Federal government) that has the power to completely destroy your life by jailing you for a felony and taking all your property. Especially since he may be dealing with them for the rest of his career.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I think he was trying to be extremely cautious when dealing with an organization (the Federal government) that has the power to completely destroy your life by jailing you for a felony and taking all your property. Especially since he may be dealing with them for the rest of his career.
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Being extremely cautious means following the rules to a 'T'. The rules do not requiring "disclosing" things that either didn't happen or that you don't know about.
 
Lindberg said:
The rules do not requiring "disclosing" things that either didn't happen or that you don't know about.
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Very true, how could one otherwise comply? But remember that the OP stated "but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point". So if one were a Federal prosecutor bent on prosecuting the OP, could one argue that since the OP stated that and apparently discussed with his parents about it and they concurred, that he knew or had reason to know?

It strikes me they could argue such and that it constituted probable cause to believe that a crime was committed in stating otherwise on the MedExpress form. That is all they need, probable cause, to seize all arguably related property and arrest him.

Do I think either the FAA or a prosecutor would care enough to do that, certainly not normally. But if they had other reason to dislike him, or if it was part of a bigger sweep operation, who knows?
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Very true, how could one otherwise comply? But remember that the OP stated "but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point". So if one were a Federal prosecutor bent on prosecuting the OP, could one argue that since the OP stated that and apparently discussed with his parents about it and they concurred, that he knew or had reason to know?

It strikes me they could argue such and that it constituted probable cause to believe that a crime was committed in stating otherwise on the MedExpress form. That is all they need, probable cause, to seize all arguably related property and arrest him.

Do I think either the FAA or a prosecutor would care enough to do that, certainly not normally. But if they had other reason to dislike him, or if it was part of a bigger sweep operation, who knows?
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I don't know what really happened.

First post the OP said (edited for space):
Anonymous OP said:
... I discovered a bottle of ADHD meds from 2008...the name of the prescribing doctor is no longer legible... I asked my parents about it and neither of them remembered for certain if I had a diagnoses, but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point. My parents said that the school I was attending had a doctor that recommended medication because I was a rowdy student in class. My parents said that they didn't recall receiving any tests or anything.
...
None of my parents have any ADHD test results in their files for me.
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Later said:
Anonymous OP said:
... The bottle is barely legible, doesn't even show name of drug, all you can read is my last name and a date, who knows if it was a prescription for ADHD.
...
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Sounds like the OP thinks it's ADHD med, but has doubts. Parents don't know anything about it, he doesn't know anything about it, the label on the bottle only has his name on it. The only way the parents concurred with this was by saying "... if I had a bottle I must have a diagnosis..." Who knows? Since the label is illegible, maybe it's vitamins or something. But the tablets or capsules probably do have marks or identifying features that could be looked up online.

https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?drugname=adderal
https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?action=search&drugname=ritalin
(I'm not sure about any other meds, but there is a way at the bottom of the linked page to enter ID marks to find a match.)

The story about the school handing out pills does seem to follow the pattern that it really is some sort of ADHD meds.
 
Assuming one has received information regarding a childhood diagnoses, how should the OP go about reporting this to the FAA?
 
Lindberg said:
Being extremely cautious means following the rules to a 'T'. The rules do not requiring "disclosing" things that either didn't happen or that you don't know about.
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Untrue. The question is worded have you ever in your life, not "did you know about". It's an affadavit.
 
bbchien said:
Untrue. The question is worded have you ever in your life, not "did you know about". It's an affadavit.
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It is not an affidavit, which, as defined in US law is required to be sworn before a notary or other qualified witness. It's not an unworn declaration under penalty of perjury either, which is why the form identifies false statements as only violations of 18 USC 1001 and not 18 USC 1621 (perjury). And yes, the affirmation is expressly limited to "the best of [your] knowledge."

So the question is properly read as, "To the best of your knowledge, have you ever . . . ."

This has to be the case because it asks about conditions you may have, and it should be obvious that a person can have a condition he doesn't know he has. But it's also true, and we've seen here many times, that people can have diagnoses they're not aware of as well.

So it's not a violation to not disclose something you're unaware of. That doesn't mean you're eligible for a medical if the FAA finds out about something you were unaware of (e.g., how many airmen learn they have hypertension, or sugar in their urine at the AME's office?). But it does mean that there's no reward for speculating about ancient issues.
 
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