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HF17

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HF17
If someone with their private pilots license, is rated for rotorcraft, and wants be rated for a single engine land airplane, 61.63(b)(1) says that they must have the applicable aeronautical experience. Does this mean that they have to have 40 hours in an airplane?


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No. Notice the phrases in 61.109 that say just "flight time/training" as compared to "flight time/training in a single-engine airplane." The pilots helicopter experience can apply to the former.
 
You go back to 61.109 and comply with the time requirements. Note that it does not say "40 hours in an airplane", it says "40 hours of flight time".

The other requirements must be read similarly carefully.
 
You go back to 61.109 and comply with the time requirements. Note that it does not say "40 hours in an airplane", it says "40 hours of flight time".

The other requirements must be read similarly carefully.

Ok, that makes sense. In terms of endorsements, would all a person like this need is the additional aircraft category endorsement? Or would they also need the solo endorsements?


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Ok, that makes sense. In terms of endorsements, would all a person like this need is the additional aircraft category endorsement? Or would they also need the solo endorsements?


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It’s a pic endorsement you want. Not solo. That’s for student pilots.
 
They are NOT student pilots, so none of the student pilot solo things (endorsing certificates, pre-solo tests) apply. The 61.63 sign off is all that is required.
 
It’s a pic endorsement you want. Not solo. That’s for student pilots.
What the fudge is a PIC endorsement? The endorsement is nearly one of competency and proficiency.
 
They are NOT student pilots, so none of the student pilot solo things (endorsing certificates, pre-solo tests) apply. The 61.63 sign off is all that is required.

Ok, thanks. that’s what I figured, I just wanted to make sure.


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They are NOT student pilots, so none of the student pilot solo things (endorsing certificates, pre-solo tests) apply. The 61.63 sign off is all that is required.

The only part that I don’t understand is how they would be able to legally accomplish the 3 hours of solo cross country in an ASEL requirement without any endorsements.


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What the fudge is a PIC endorsement? The endorsement is nearly one of competency and proficiency.

Have a look in AC 61-65. I assume he's referring to example A.72 in the appendix.
 
The only part that I don’t understand is how they would be able to legally accomplish the 3 hours of solo cross country in an ASEL requirement without any endorsements.


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You get an endorsement to act as pic of an aircraft category class that you do not have a certification. You are not a student pilot. None of the student pilot endorsement are required. Just the endorsement to act as pic from an instructor.
 
You get an endorsement to act as pic of an aircraft category class that you do not have a certification. You are not a student pilot. None of the student pilot endorsement are required. Just the endorsement to act as pic from an instructor.

Ok. Thank you, this was really helpful. I just found the endorsement. I’m preparing to take my cfi checkride and was a little confused on this. My cfi had no clue how to train someone with a different category or class.

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Semantics are frequently involved when the term student pilot is used. Student Pilot is a type of pilot certificate. But that doesn’t mean that one still can’t be considered a student pilot when adding ratings. I sure felt like a student pilot at times when working on my MEL, SES, and glider ratings. And I’m certain I’d feel even more so if I went for my IR. I know that wasn’t the full scope of the term’s usage in the discussion but I just wanted to toss that thought into the mix.
 
Semantics are frequently involved when the term student pilot is used. Student Pilot is a type of pilot certificate. But that doesn’t mean that one still can’t be considered a student pilot when adding ratings. I sure felt like a student pilot at times when working on my MEL, SES, and glider ratings. And I’m certain I’d feel even more so if I went for my IR. I know that wasn’t the full scope of the term’s usage in the discussion but I just wanted to toss that thought into the mix.
I agree but not pertinent to the conversation. Since you brought it up I’ll drift with you. My philosophy is the day I don’t see myself as a student is the day I should stop flying.
 
All of this is very interesting to me. Very.

I am going in for my third-class medical next Friday. I have two of the three issues taken care of ("simple" CACI). Another issue from over six years ago may rear its ugly head (PSVT, issue since resolved). I have toyed with the idea of turning the exam into a consult in order to preserve my shot at Sport Pilot, but I cannot locate any SP training available withing a 100 mile circle of where I live. And even if I do go SP, then the only plane that might be available for me is an older Luscombe 8A in Granbury. It's not clapped-out, but I don't think the missus would be thrilled in it. So, I've decided to "cast the die" and make my visit an exam. Let the chips fall where they may.

I just ran out of cliche's, sorry.

Anyway, I've been looking at PP-Glider. There is the Hamilton Soaring Club only about 10 miles further than KSEP (where I was planning on flight training). They have very reasonable rates for club members, and while a few of their sailplanes are older, they do have a nice Grob trainer. PP-Glider (without self-launch endorsement) would be about one-third the cost of ASEL. Tempting.

So, assuming I go PP-Glider, how does adding the ASEL play out after that? Will hours logged in Glider apply? I've already taken the PAR and passed. That is good for two years, which may be about the time it will take to get PP-Glider and then sort out any medical SI paperwork to allow me to work on ASEL. I do have a shiny new copy of the FAA Glider Flying Handbook, and three more practice tests left on my ASA account. Huh, also just found that I have a copy of FAA-S-8081-22, Private Pilot Glider Practical Test Standards too. Is that a sign?
 
To add ASEL to a Private Glider rating, you'll have to meet the 61.109 flight experience requirements for PP-ASEL. For the most part, the only "help" you'll get is that you can use your glider total time towards the 40 hour total time requirement. You'll still need 20 hours of dual instruction in an ASEL and 10 hours of solo time in an ASEL. Same applies to the helicopter add on pilot in the original post.
 
So, I've decided to "cast the die" and make my visit an exam. Let the chips fall where they may.
I don't know you, so don't take this the wrong way, but you've made the wrong decision. In fact, this is the dumbest thing you could do. Not just because you might be throwing away SP, but because you might be throwing it away unnecessarily by going in unprepared for an exam that you could pass if only you had a chance to prepare. And you might be throwing it away permanently if there's no chance of you passing.

There are several respected "hard case" AMEs in the metroplex. Consult with one of them before you have an exam. There are also schools and independent instructors teaching in LSAs. I'd suggest you ask more about that on the North Texas Aviators FB group.
 
To add ASEL to a Private Glider rating, you'll have to meet the 61.109 flight experience requirements for PP-ASEL. For the most part, the only "help" you'll get is that you can use your glider total time towards the 40 hour total time requirement. You'll still need 20 hours of dual instruction in an ASEL and 10 hours of solo time in an ASEL. Same applies to the helicopter add on pilot in the original post.

That is good news, the time and effort spent on PP-Glider wouldn't be wasted - not that achieving any type of certification is a waste. I'm thinking a day spent in the air is going to be more fun than spending the day shredding pastures or trying to pen the calves for weaning.
 
I don't know you, so don't take this the wrong way, but you've made the wrong decision. In fact, this is the dumbest thing you could do. Not just because you might be throwing away SP, but because you might be throwing it away unnecessarily by going in unprepared for an exam that you could pass if only you had a chance to prepare. And you might be throwing it away permanently if there's no chance of you passing.

There are several respected "hard case" AMEs in the metroplex. Consult with one of them before you have an exam. There are also schools and independent instructors teaching in LSAs. I'd suggest you ask more about that on the North Texas Aviators FB group.

Well, I'm pretty sure that corrected PSVT is not going to immediately disqualify me from a third-class medical, it's just going to take time and money. I can easily drive back down to Temple and get my records for the radiofrequency ablation done way back in 2016. BS&W does make it easy to get the records. I'm just not sure I'm willing to wait around until the FAA office sees fit to eventually get around to approving an SI for Supraventricular Tachycardia. It's annoying in that I only had one episode, and it was fixed with the procedure. There is no "chance to prepare" for changing history. It is in my medical record. Now, what I do plan to do is ask Dr. Blocker if I even need to enter it on the records. It is not a "surgery" that occurred in the past three years, but then there's question 18.g.:
"Heart or vascular trouble. The applicant should describe the condition to include, dates, symptoms, and treatment, and provide medical reports to assist in the certification decision-making process. These reports should include: operative reports of coronary intervention to include the original cardiac catheterization report, stress tests, worksheets, and original tracings (or a legible copy). When stress tests are provided, forward the reports, worksheets and original tracings (or a legible copy) to the FAA. Part 67 provides that, for all classes of medical certificates, an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of myocardial infarction, angina pectoris, cardiac valve replacement, permanent cardiac pacemaker implantation, heart replacement, or coronary heart disease that has required treatment or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant, is cause for denial. (See Item 36, page 6). I don't know if PSVT needs to be reported since it's not a disqualifying condition. I'm not going to hide it if required though, but I learned a long time ago not to provide more information than what is being requested. If Dr. Blocker says yes, then I'll abide by that decision.

Well, I don't have (or had) any of the disqualifying conditions, I just have to get the information together from the visit (done outpatient) together, do the "CHD Protocol with ECHO and 24-hour Holter" and sit around and wait for the FAA to finally get around to an SI. Money to spend, time to waste. The glider center is only 39 miles from my house. I live down in Bosque County, so the metroplex is a bit further up the road. As I mentioned, the only LSA (is a Luscombe 8A really an LSA?) near me would be in KGDJ. That's only 38 miles, but still not much of a choice, and the flight school that uses it hasn't answered as to whether or not they even offer a SP program.

The NTA FB group is private, and I don't have a FB account. I would guess that the closest members may be at Spinks in Burleson. That's still a haul, especially if you want to just take a two or three hour evening flight to watch the sun set. That's right on the edge of DFW Class B too. Rather, it is in Class D right under the 110/50 shelf of DFW.

PP-Glider has become my Plan B. All my life I've dreamt of being a pilot. I may not get to ASEL, but Glider is certainly an attractive alternative, and far more affordable. It will be a great way to spend time honing stick and rudder skills until I get through the SI mess. I just don't want to be like my friend and coworker who is ready to solo but has been on hold, awaiting an SI since June of last year. Another attractive aspect of gliders is that they haven't skyrocketed in price like even the lowly C-150/152 I am wanting as a time builder. The other benefit is that I can buy one that can be trailered behind our motor home. Load up and head out to the wide-open spaces of West Texas. Oh yeah, I also wouldn't be worried about TBOH hours on a Lycoming or Continental, or the fussiness of a Rotax (unless I find that unicorn of an affordable Pipistrel Sinus).
 
My two cents worth. Unless you know you'll never move, might as well do a consult, then go play with gliders until you get your paperwork together.
 
If a private rotorcraft pilot wanted to get their commercial certificate in an ASEL, would they have to get their private in an ASEL?


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Well, I'm pretty sure that corrected PSVT is not going to immediately disqualify me from a third-class medical, it's just going to take time and money. I can easily drive back down to Temple and get my records for the radiofrequency ablation done way back in 2016. BS&W does make it easy to get the records. I'm just not sure I'm willing to wait around until the FAA office sees fit to eventually get around to approving an SI for Supraventricular Tachycardia. It's annoying in that I only had one episode, and it was fixed with the procedure. There is no "chance to prepare" for changing history. It is in my medical record. Now, what I do plan to do is ask Dr. Blocker if I even need to enter it on the records. It is not a "surgery" that occurred in the past three years, but then there's question 18.g.:
"Heart or vascular trouble. The applicant should describe the condition to include, dates, symptoms, and treatment, and provide medical reports to assist in the certification decision-making process. These reports should include: operative reports of coronary intervention to include the original cardiac catheterization report, stress tests, worksheets, and original tracings (or a legible copy). When stress tests are provided, forward the reports, worksheets and original tracings (or a legible copy) to the FAA. Part 67 provides that, for all classes of medical certificates, an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of myocardial infarction, angina pectoris, cardiac valve replacement, permanent cardiac pacemaker implantation, heart replacement, or coronary heart disease that has required treatment or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant, is cause for denial. (See Item 36, page 6). I don't know if PSVT needs to be reported since it's not a disqualifying condition. I'm not going to hide it if required though, but I learned a long time ago not to provide more information than what is being requested. If Dr. Blocker says yes, then I'll abide by that decision.

Well, I don't have (or had) any of the disqualifying conditions, I just have to get the information together from the visit (done outpatient) together, do the "CHD Protocol with ECHO and 24-hour Holter" and sit around and wait for the FAA to finally get around to an SI. Money to spend, time to waste. The glider center is only 39 miles from my house. I live down in Bosque County, so the metroplex is a bit further up the road. As I mentioned, the only LSA (is a Luscombe 8A really an LSA?) near me would be in KGDJ. That's only 38 miles, but still not much of a choice, and the flight school that uses it hasn't answered as to whether or not they even offer a SP program.

The NTA FB group is private, and I don't have a FB account. I would guess that the closest members may be at Spinks in Burleson. That's still a haul, especially if you want to just take a two or three hour evening flight to watch the sun set. That's right on the edge of DFW Class B too. Rather, it is in Class D right under the 110/50 shelf of DFW.

PP-Glider has become my Plan B. All my life I've dreamt of being a pilot. I may not get to ASEL, but Glider is certainly an attractive alternative, and far more affordable. It will be a great way to spend time honing stick and rudder skills until I get through the SI mess. I just don't want to be like my friend and coworker who is ready to solo but has been on hold, awaiting an SI since June of last year. Another attractive aspect of gliders is that they haven't skyrocketed in price like even the lowly C-150/152 I am wanting as a time builder. The other benefit is that I can buy one that can be trailered behind our motor home. Load up and head out to the wide-open spaces of West Texas. Oh yeah, I also wouldn't be worried about TBOH hours on a Lycoming or Continental, or the fussiness of a Rotax (unless I find that unicorn of an affordable Pipistrel Sinus).
Well, you seem to have made up your mind. Good luck.
 
If a private rotorcraft pilot wanted to get their commercial certificate in an ASEL, would they have to get their private in an ASEL?

Is there something specific in the regs that is causing you confusion about this? (What have you read so far and how have you interpreted it? What needs clarification?)
 
Is there something specific in the regs that is causing you confusion about this? (What have you read so far and how have you interpreted it? What needs clarification?)

To be able to apply for a commercial pilot certificate, it says that you need a private pilot certificate, but doesn’t specify category or class, so I’m assuming you would not have to redo private

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To be able to apply for a commercial pilot certificate, it says that you need a private pilot certificate, but doesn’t specify category or class, so I’m assuming you would not have to redo private

I believe that’s right. You’ll need 50 hours PIC in airplanes for commercial, so if you don’t get private along the way, that will all be “student” (but not student pilot, since you’re already a private pilot) solo.
 
I believe that’s right. You’ll need 50 hours PIC in airplanes for commercial, so if you don’t get private along the way, that will all be “student” (but not student pilot, since you’re already a private pilot) solo.
I hold a commercial helicopter rating. It is the only helicopter certificate I have held. Started in airplanes and transitioned to helicopter.
 
I hold a commercial helicopter rating. It is the only helicopter certificate I have held. Started in airplanes and transitioned to helicopter.

Sorry, I must have missed the boat on what the question was somewhere up the line. 50 hours PIC airplane is (I believe) a requirement for someone with a private helicopter rating to apply for a commercial airplane rating. But maybe nobody asked that o_O
 
To be able to apply for a commercial pilot certificate, it says that you need a private pilot certificate, but doesn’t specify category or class, so I’m assuming you would not have to redo private
89e8621e97a2745f20fc5a46895d2ecd.jpg



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Imagining you meant to quote part of 61.123 Eligibility requirements: General instead?

Yes - "aircraft category and class" is not specified re the pilot certificate (whereas it is for other requirements).
(h) Hold at least a private pilot certificate issued under this part or meet the requirements of § 61.73
 
Imagining you meant to quote part of 61.123 Eligibility requirements: General instead?

Yes - "aircraft category and class" is not specified re the pilot certificate (whereas it is for other requirements).

I attached the wrong image by accident


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Sorry, I must have missed the boat on what the question was somewhere up the line. 50 hours PIC airplane is (I believe) a requirement for someone with a private helicopter rating to apply for a commercial airplane rating. But maybe nobody asked that o_O
I don’t remember the hour requirement.

The point of my post is if you’re already a rated pilot you can skip private in the new category and class.
 
I don't know you, so don't take this the wrong way, but you've made the wrong decision. In fact, this is the dumbest thing you could do. Not just because you might be throwing away SP, but because you might be throwing it away unnecessarily by going in unprepared for an exam that you could pass if only you had a chance to prepare. And you might be throwing it away permanently if there's no chance of you passing.

There are several respected "hard case" AMEs in the metroplex. Consult with one of them before you have an exam. There are also schools and independent instructors teaching in LSAs. I'd suggest you ask more about that on the North Texas Aviators FB group.
UPDATE!
I used a Senior AME in Granbury. By communicating with him before even setting foot in his office, we were able to iron out all of the details. Two CACI's and one cardiac evaluation later, I walked out the door today with my third-class medical.
Of course all of the extra paperwork added to the cost, but that's not unusual in the medical field.
Now, on to get my Student Pilot Certificate! I am scheduling my Discovery Flight with the CFI I've chosen to start out with.
 
That's great news. And you can still get your glider rating too; it doesn't have to just be plan b!
 
That's great news. And you can still get your glider rating too; it doesn't have to just be plan b!
You are absolutely correct! I am still intrigued by sailplanes. And it's even more encouraging to hear that here in Central Texas we have great thermalling.
 
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