AD 2025-02-11: Rudder Structure

brien23

brien23

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Brien
This AD requires replacing any rudder equipped with a rudder post made from a 1025 carbon steel with a rudder equipped with a rudder post made from a 4130N low-alloy steel.
Applicable Airplane Models

FS 2001 Corp J5A (Army L-4F), J5A-80, J5B (Army L-4G), J5C, AE-1, HE-1
FS 2002 Corporation PA-14
FS 2003 Corporation PA-12, PA-12S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. J3C-40, J3C-50, J3C-50S, J3C-65, J3C-65S, PA-11, PA-11S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. J3F-50, J3F-50S, J3F-60, J3F-60S, (Army L-4D) J3F-65, J3F-
65S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. J3L, J3L-S, J3L-65 (ARMY L-4C), J3L-65S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. J4, J4A, J4A-S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. J4E (ARMY L-4E)
Piper J4F
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-15
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-16, PA-16S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-17
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-18, PA-18S, PA-18 “105” (Special), PA-18S “105” (Special),
PA-18A, PA-18 “125” (Army L-21A), PA-18S “125”, PA-18AS
“125”, PA-18 “135” (Army L-21B), PA-18A “135”, PA-18S
“135”, PA-18AS “135”, PA-18 “150”, PA-18A “150”, PA-18S
“150”, PA-18AS “150”, PA-19 (Army L-18C), PA-19S
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-18A (Restricted), PA-18A “135” (Restricted), PA-18A “150”
(Restricted)
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-20, PA-20S, PA-20 “115”, PA-20S “115”, PA-20 “135”, PA-
20S “135”
Piper Aircraft, Inc. PA-22, PA-22-108, PA-22-135, PA-22S-135, PA-22-150, PA-
22S-150, PA-22-160, PA-22S-160
 
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Is this the AD based on a whopping two airplanes, and the cause of cracking was likely a rudder-mounted beacon - something not found on anywhere near all of the affected planes?
 
iu
 
A concern for me is lack of drain holes in control surfaces.

This allows water to build up and causes the lower tube to rot away.

Essentially disconnects the bottom portion of the Rudder from the

Main torque tube. Too common.

Dealing with this on a nice -12 that was covered recently.

All controls have no drain holes.
 
Flight control surfaces must be strewn all over the country side over the past 80 years of no drain holes then, right?
 
Bacho said:
Flight control surfaces must be strewn all over the country side over the past 80 years of no drain holes then, right?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. This is an item folks familiar with fabric covered aircraft

check during inspections. There are other areas as well. Bottom of the

fuselage, Piper aileron hinge brackets are a couple. There is even

an AD on some Mooney rudders. Not providing provisions for moisture

to drain can ruin many types of structures. Key is to get it in the.right

place. Taking care with little things reduces big problems.
 
ateamer said:
Is this the AD based on a whopping two airplanes, and the cause of cracking was likely a rudder-mounted beacon - something not found on anywhere near all of the affected planes?
Click to expand...
Both of which were modified with bigger engines, and still landed safely.

From what I've heard about it, this is a MASSIVE overreach. Here's the final rule https://drs.faa.gov/browse/ADFRAWD/doctypeDetails?modalOpened=true

Particularly interesting is the large number of very valid objections that were ignored.

Doesn't bode well for the Cherokee wing spar ad. It seems commenting on these nprm's is a waste of time these days.
 
Jim beat me to it. Both bigger engines. Both rudder mounted beacons. But yeah, doesn't bode well for the 28/32 spar AD.

Personal note... I am looking into the tooling to build these rudders. 30,000X750 a piece...

Apparently these seem to be fatigue failures and not corrosion...at least according to the folks on a piper forum.
 
And both didn’t have auxiliary vertical fins to be legal on floats
 
If you have a 65hp J3 you have 10 years to do the AD, even category I you have 2 years. If you do the nitric acid test the ad might not apply at all.
Compliance Times

Category I Airplanes: Airplanes having both
a rudder post mounted beacon light and a
150 or greater horsepower (hp) engine
installed.
Within 2 years after the effective date of
this AD.

Category II Airplanes: Airplanes having
either a rudder post mounted beacon light or
a 150 or greater hp engine installed.
Within 3 years after the effective date of
this AD.

Category III Airplanes: All airplanes not in
Category I or Category II that do not have a
rudder post mounted beacon light and have
an engine less than 150 hp and greater than
100 hp installed.
Within 5 years after the effective date of
this AD.

Category IV Airplanes: All airplanes not in
Category I, II, or III that do not have a
rudder post mounted beacon light and have
an engine of 100 hp or below installed.
Within 10 years after the effective date of
this AD.
 
Bacho said:
Flight control surfaces must be strewn all over the country side over the past 80 years of no drain holes then, right?
Click to expand...
This stuff usually shows up when the fabric is being replaced, and new parts are bought and covered and installed. Some that do fail in flight don't crash the airplane. On this forum we have seen a Piper rudder twisted a the top due to loading by that beacon when the rudder is deflected, and a Pawnee elevator badly twisted.

1739552688863.png

1739552426683.png

Wing struts are another headache. Taylorcraft, Maule and Champion had steel struts, really thin material, and would rust out from the inside when water found its way in and got trapped in there. There were some crashes, as a failed strut really is a big deal. There are ADs on those airplanes.
 
There are a lot of little things that cause big problems. Battery Boxes are

often ignored for years and holes develop. Acid then goes on Cessna Engine

Mounts or in TriPacer belly’s to cause major damage.

Since I’m a Real Old Guy I still have my issues of Inspection Aids and

Airworthiness Alerts that the Feds sent to depict problem areas. At one

time I considered compiling all and selling by model. These days it would

be a good YouTube topic.
 
Dan; that pic looks like a Pawnee. We made a practice of pulling belly fabric

every other year to address rust. I’ve had tubes break right off while doing

this. Wettable Powders and lack of canopy covers really accelerate the

deterioration.
 
Given this specific issue has been a topic of discussion for the past 5+ years, I think most have found it will be a quick mx record search for the history of the rudder and based on that information sign off the AD as N/A. Now for those rudders that are 40+ years old, then it might take a bit more to confirm whether the post is 1025 or 4130 steel but easily doable via a number of methods as some have already found out several years ago.
 
Most replacement rudders have been made from 4130 for the past 50+ years.

I doubt there are many original rudders from 1938 to 1946 still out there.
 
It seems a whole new generation of folks have discovered that a Tri-Pacer

provides performance similar to a 172 at a fraction of the 2025 price of

price. Then this comes along!
 
Magman said:
It seems a whole new generation of folks have discovered that a Tri-Pacer

provides performance similar to a 172 at a fraction of the 2025 price of

price. Then this comes along!
Click to expand...
Oh....they will take care of that. Hopefully someone will get an AMOC approved. There are some simple solutions without starting all over and rebuilding the control surface.
;)
 
Doc Holliday said:
Most replacement rudders have been made from 4130 for the past 50+ years.

I doubt there are many original rudders from 1938 to 1946 still out there.
Click to expand...
Nay nay....the ones I know about are still the older versions...original parts. At least two around here. A Clipper and a Colt.
 
Considering that Piper's service bulletin on the subject states that aircraft delivered prior to June 1974 were delivered with a rudder that has a 1025 steel post and the ones after that point might be either 1025 or 4130, I think there will be more affected aircraft than some are expecting.

My personal aircraft would have been affected, at least to the extent of determining what the rudder material was, had the previous owner had not saved receipts from the last fabric job. The log entry provided no information about the origin of the rudder.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
There are some simple solutions without starting all over and rebuilding the control surface.
Click to expand...
Like this, for a PA-18 for example, from Univair, though the AD has cleaned them out and there's now a lead time of 12 to 14 weeks:

1739658095352.png
 
Finding someone to do the fabric properly the first time can be a challenge.

Last time I checked A&P schools were not required to teach to the

“ Return to Service “ Skill Level. Some of the “ Real old Guys” ( like me)

have not used some of the newer systems. Color matching is not something

the majority of Techs have zero experience with too.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Like this, for a PA-18 for example, from Univair, though the AD has cleaned them out and there's now a lead time of 12 to 14 weeks:

View attachment 138166
Click to expand...
Yup....but there is a simpler fix that does not require painting and covering. Potential fix : Slide a smaller diameter tube inside the hinge tube....and epoxy in place. I believe someone is working an AMOC.
 
mondtster said:
I think there will be more affected aircraft than some are expecting.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I found a number of people checked their rudders when the 1st word got out about 5 years ago. Perhaps more people decided to wait and see if an AD would come out? I know I told a few people to check this back then to see what they had.

Checkout_my_Six said:
Slide a smaller diameter tube inside the hinge tube....and epoxy in place.
Click to expand...
Will be interesting to see how they will get that "inner" tube up through the rudder post tube past all the distorted welded areas to the upper hinge area before the epoxy dries.
 
Bell206 said:
Will be interesting to see how they will get that "inner" tube up through the rudder post tube past all the distorted welded areas to the upper hinge area before the epoxy dries.
Click to expand...
And without getting half the epoxy scraped off.
 
Bell206 said:
Interesting. I found a number of people checked their rudders when the 1st word got out about 5 years ago. Perhaps more people decided to wait and see if an AD would come out? I know I told a few people to check this back then to see what they had.
Click to expand...

I checked mine when I first heard about it too but I believe I'm the only local to me person I know who has taken any action on this. However, my comment really wasn't as much about the number of people who have checked their rudder as it is about the volume of rudders affected. I have no idea how many original 1025 steel rudders are still out there but I imagine there are more original rudders still in use than there are replacements. But maybe not. Anyway, this won't affect me at all except to write down that the AD is not applicable on all the tube and fabric Pipers I care for. All but mine are new enough that they originally came with 4130 rudders.
 
mondtster said:
All but mine are new enough that they originally came with 4130 rudders.
Click to expand...
From what I saw and heard, either that or the pre-1975 ones that were recovered all had replaced tail feathers with 4130 ones. Perhaps there's still a few with 50 year old fabric or lived a very sheltered life to retain their original rudder?
 
Bell206 said:
From what I saw and heard, either that or the pre-1975 ones that were recovered all had replaced tail feathers with 4130 ones. Perhaps there's still a few with 50 year old fabric or lived a very sheltered life to retain their original rudder?
Click to expand...

All I can do is guess based on what I’ve personally observed. Of the aircraft I have experience with locally, I expect this will affect the majority of them.
 
mondtster said:
All I can do is guess based on what I’ve personally observed. Of the aircraft I have experience with locally, I expect this will affect the majority of them.
Click to expand...
I think the AD could have been written better especially the applicability statement. Already had some questions even though these same people went through this exercise several years ago. Hopefully they'll revise the text a bit in the near future.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
So....maybe you're not doin it right? ;)
Click to expand...
Have you ever epoxied a sleeve into a cylinder? I have, in the machine shop. It's difficult to get an 8" sleeve adequately sealed and seated in a nice round bore, never mind into a distorted, rusted old three-foot piece of small-diameter tubing.

Experience matters when it comes to opinions on this sort of thing.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Have you ever epoxied a sleeve into a cylinder? I have, in the machine shop. It's difficult to get an 8" sleeve adequately sealed and seated in a nice round bore, never mind into a distorted, rusted old three-foot piece of small-diameter tubing.

Experience matters when it comes to opinions on this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
It appears you are assuming something that may not be..... ;)
 
ateamer said:
Is this the AD based on a whopping two airplanes, and the cause of cracking was likely a rudder-mounted beacon - something not found on anywhere near all of the affected planes?
Click to expand...
The AD identifies seven specific aircraft and anecdotal reports of more.
 
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