Actual IFR usage for GA flying

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falconkidding

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Falcon Kidding
I'm slogging through my instrument rating so far have done 10 hours in the sim and 20 hours boring holes in the sky shooting approaches with a safety pilot. One thing I'm curious on is actually filing and using it. I could hit up the instructor but I don't think he's actually done IFR outside of teaching so figured I'd ask you all. I notice on skyvector when I play around with x-c's there is usually a routes list but to me it seems like a pita to zigzag around from point to point eventually reaching your destination not to mention sometimes adding 20ish% to your trip. Can you not file just direct (from podunk airport to podunk airport) If I couldn't get direct or close to it 80% of the time I think I'd rather just go VFR.

I guess my question is say I wanted to go to the beach maybe destin from crossville tn (csv) would my likely route end up being what sky vector shows or could I realistically fly a straight line down there? I'm kind of clueless on the whole enroute part of IFR flying. Heck I feel clueless on anything but approaches and holds lol.
 
Yep, you can go direct (except for departure and approach) if you are properly equipped. An IFR GPS can get you that ability. The other potential challenge is having an airplane that can fly direct through a mountainous region if that is where you want to go. Flying airways in the mountains sometimes helps with lower MESs to accommodate lower horsepower aircraft.

Edit: Ask your instructor anyway. Chances are he/she will know the answer.
 
Most of the time,you an get direct,in busy airspace you are going to get radar vectors,or airways till you get out of the airspace.
 
A lot of red flags here.

1) those 20 hours with a safety pilot. I assume that's not your instructor. What sort of flying are you doing? Have you coordinated your flights with your CFII? DIY instrument training can cause bad habits; use safety pilot flights to reinforce your training flights.
2) your instructor should be comfortable operating in actual IMC. You don't have to launch into 200ft ceilings, but he/she should be comfortable filing IFR and flying in the real thing. BTW, have you done any flying with your instructor in a real plane?
3) have you and your instructor gone over enroute work? There's a lot more to an instrument rating than flying approaches. To answer your question, the routes that you need to file are based on your navigational capabilities and ATC radar coverage. You can file direct if you're IFR GPS equipped, and depending on where you are, you may get direct, or get assigned airways. It just depends.
 
+1 to all three points Brad Z just said.

(or is that really +3?)
 
Direct expect for those pesky restricted areas between your home base and Destin. Unless they're inactive.
 
AggieMike88 said:
+1 to all three points Brad Z just said.

(or is that really +3?)
Click to expand...
+2 (or is that really +6)
I had the same questions as Brad when I read the OP. This is not trying to belittle the OPer, but they are valid questions (ie, red flags).
 
I suspect you'll also find your 20% number is wrong. Back when I was still using DUATS's flight planner, it never much reported that the airways-based routes were much more than 5%, sometimes pretty close to a direct route.
 
falconkidding said:
to me it seems like a pita to zigzag around from point to point eventually reaching your destination not to mention sometimes adding 20ish% to your trip. Can you not file just direct (from podunk airport to podunk airport)
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The AIM has procedures for filing RNAV direct routings. Follow those and you should be fine.
 
Be sure to get some training in actual IMC during your training. It's nothing like simulated.

We performed an _actual_ missed ILS on my training. We knew in advance the weather was not good enough to make it into that field, but we were practicing. Valuable experience.
 
As stated above, fly in actual when you can. I flew with my instructor in 400 ft ceilings. That experience was valuable beyond belief.

As a newly minted instrument pilot, flying with a GPS equipped airplane, my instructor taught me file what you want, fly what you get. I file direct to the initial approach fix then destination airport.
 
Yes you can file direct. But there is a chance you might not get it. Then all that boring training you disregarded would be very important. The goal is to learn how to use the system.
 
falconkidding said:
I guess my question is say I wanted to go to the beach maybe destin from crossville tn (csv) would my likely route end up being what sky vector shows or could I realistically fly a straight line down there? I'm kind of clueless on the whole enroute part of IFR flying. Heck I feel clueless on anything but approaches and holds lol.
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Filing as a /G, if I go in a westerly direction from DC, most the time I get something much more direct than what the initial clearance spits out. Somewhere in the departure procedure out of DC I get some VOR in the Midwest 'direct'.
Going anywhere south from DC it is similar, a somewhat contorted route from the computer followed by 'direct' somewhere close to my destination.
Going north from DC into NY airspace, I usually get a route followed by several re-routes involving combinations of Victor airways.
 
Ahh cool seems like direct is more common than I thought.
This whole instrument rating has been a bit weird to me idk if its just been oversold in difficulty or its just being taught in a way that isn't resonating with me. Everything seems geared around approaches and holding ( i guess that is most of the checkride) but to me thats the easiest part. I feel like I could pass the checkride no problem but still have no idea how the "real" world ifr is. Since you all are here and dropping some knowledge is it better to file airways just so you don't get a full route clearance to copy and somehow ask for direct at a point or file airways to a point then direct or w/e. I know you can file whatever you want but is there an unofficial best practice?

EDIT: my instructor is fine with ifr just his experience is pretty much local. For our X-C I know(well 90% sure) I'm gonna get cleared as filed gonna shoot some approaches and it will likely be like any other flight more or less.
 
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falconkidding said:
Ahh cool seems like direct is more common than I thought.
This whole instrument rating has been a bit weird to me idk if its just been oversold in difficulty or its just being taught in a way that isn't resonating with me. Everything seems geared around approaches and holding ( i guess that is most of the checkride) but to me thats the easiest part. I feel like I could pass the checkride no problem but still have no idea how the "real" world ifr is. Since you all are here and dropping some knowledge is it better to file airways just so you don't get a full route clearance to copy and somehow ask for direct at a point or file airways to a point then direct or w/e. I know you can file whatever you want but is there an unofficial best practice?
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You have to fly a long cross country with your instructor under an active IFR flight plan in your training. Enroute is easier for sure so there is a lot of emphasis on approaches, some on holding, some on departures.

But really, understanding the system is a big part of your training and should be incorporated into both ground and flight training.

Watch instructional videos, read FAA publications, and ASK YOUR INSTRUCTOR. That is what you pay them for. Tell them you want to practice under IFR flight plans to understand the system.
 
falconkidding said:
is it better to file airways just so you don't get a full route clearance to copy
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Sorta depends on where you are and where you're going..... And what equipment you have onboard....

55WB is equipped to let me file /G. And then I research what are the common clearances between my origin and destination on www.fltplan.com. Often, the clearance includes both a SID and a STAR. Which I am coming to like getting because it saves lots of scribbling when the clearance is read to me. And by researching ahead of time, and filing what is most common, I frequently get "as filed" and I have already have that written down on my kneeboard.

So the best answer to your question is "it depends". But if you do your homework as you prep for the flight, you'll get a good answer figured out on your own.

You have some good questions.... but it sorta sounds like your CFI is leaving a few key elements out of his instruction....
 
I am being taught to use the airways in my planning and filing. If things are looking good, then you can ask ATC in the air to go direct to XYZ point. That way you can follow MEAs and not hit stuff. I like that approach (see what I did there!)

I think there's a better chance of being cleared "as filed" then you can plan for a direct enroute. If you file direct, you may get cleared on airways and be more unfamiliar with the routing and details.
 
Also can't fly through hot MOAs IFR, VFR yes, IFR no
 
falconkidding said:
This whole instrument rating has been a bit weird to me idk if its just been oversold in difficulty or its just being taught in a way that isn't resonating with me. Everything seems geared around approaches and holding ( i guess that is most of the checkride) but to me thats the easiest part. I feel like I could pass the checkride no problem but still have no idea how the "real" world ifr is.
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If that is the case, you have received poor instrument instruction.
 
Want to see what you might get. Go file an IFR plan for a flight you might take. Wait a few minutes and go to Flight Aware and see what route the computer spit out. If you're using ForeFlight you can file it with FF and you will get a notification of the route after a bit. You're not actually going to fly this and the plan will just expire in the computer, no harm no foul.
 
Here in NY and a lot of the NE, you'll never see direct. Less congested places you'll get direct.
 
Actually in much of the NE you will get direct, just not in he cesspool of the lower cities, but who want to go there anyways.
 
Once you know how to fly in the system, you know how to fly in it. Yes,it will usually be faster to go vfr. But when there are clouds the ifr will come in handy because you won't be on the ground. If your IFR ability is limited to direct to, vectors, and approaches you still have work to do
 
Filing the airways and routes that you can expect from previous clearance or preferred routes also allow better fuel planning and times. If you plan direct, then don't get it you will be burning more gas and taking more time. Plan the longer route, if you get direct fantastic, you will be early, and have extra gas (assuming direct would allow you to land under max landing weight of course!). I can also add in that in the countless times i have flown from my home base airport to visit family,, literally cant even count how many times i've done that route, every time at some point I will ask for direct, sometimes multiple times from various controllers, and still have never gotten it IFR. It all depends on the airspace and congestion of that airspace you are operating around, sometimes you'll get it, sometimes you won't.
 
File direct, or whatever you want. Then, view your assigned route at flightaware.

As a learning experience, you can do this without ever calling up to open the flight plan. Just view what they assign, and let it expire. If you don't have an IR, ask your instructor to submit it, so that you can see.
 
falconkidding said:
I guess my question is say I wanted to go to the beach maybe destin from crossville tn (csv) would my likely route end up being what sky vector shows or could I realistically fly a straight line down there? I'm kind of clueless on the whole enroute part of IFR flying. Heck I feel clueless on anything but approaches and holds lol.
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Having lived in the Chicago area with the wife's family in Panama City, I've made what would be your part of that trip more times than I can count. I think that I may have even made a fuel stop in Crossville once or twice.

Early on, I would file airways and VOR's. But after getting "cleared direct" a few times, I started filing direct from whatever fuel stop we made in TN and always got "cleared as filed". As for your possible route, there are some restricted areas that you would have to get past. But there's a corridor north of Destin that you will most likely be routed through. With that exception, I don't see anything wrong with filing direct and expect vectors through the corridor.
 
jordane93 said:
Here in NY and a lot of the NE, you'll never see direct. Less congested places you'll get direct.
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All my flying has really been in the northeast and I have NEVER gotten a direct clearance, not once!
 
Sure, fine, go VFR if the weather is VFR. If it isn't, then you can't. What am I missing? :)

File direct. Go for it. But then you get the route ATC wants. Direct some places or short flights, complex routings other places where there is busy airspace, mountains, etc.

I'd rather learn what routings are likely and file those. Use route advisor on Foreflight. See what you get and see if you can understand why. Then file and Foreflight will even respond when atc has created your route with your anticipated route so 9 times out of 10 you know what you'll get before you even start.

No one would file IFR if we always had VMC. Well most wouldn't. But we don't, hence the instrument rating.

Finally training focuses on approaches because it's the hard bit. Now go on some cross countries to get more comfortable with your instructor. It will all start to make sense!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It all comes together when you do the long instrument cross-country. Mine was a little longer than most because we had an actual mission to accomplish (instructor got a new plane and had to pick it up; we flew IFR down and I flew VFR back, which also made me a much better VFR pilot and gave me a lot of confidence in the airplane's and my ability to go someplace). The first leg was 230nm direct. After that, we were on airways for 360nm because we were over mountains in Wyoming and needed the "lower" (12,000 MSL, and it was a hot day so even that was a chore with full fuel) MEAs. Do something like that with your instructor. It's worth whatever it costs.
 
Filing airways, by the way, is no guarantee that you aren't going to get rerouted. As pointed out there are official and unofficial preferred routes. V3 runs from Boston out west of NYC and down to the DC area, but you'll never get it in practice.

Once you leave the major urban areas your clearance is indeed usually something like cleared to destination direct.

I fly from HKY to CJR a lot. There's pretty much airways that's a straight line between those two points so I file that. Amusingly about halfway through the flight I get:

PCT: 27K, I have a new route for you advise when ready to copy.
27K: Go ahead.
PCT: 27K is cleared to the culpeper airport via direct.
27K: I needed to copy that?
 
falconkidding said:
I guess my question is say I wanted to go to the beach maybe destin from crossville tn (csv) would my likely route end up being what sky vector shows or could I realistically fly a straight line down there? I'm kind of clueless on the whole enroute part of IFR flying. Heck I feel clueless on anything but approaches and holds lol.
Click to expand...

In most of the southeast and midwest a lot of the flying is direct. Often something more leaving/arriving busy space, but in between it's typically direct. Hot MOA's and restricted space may involve vectors or routes around them or altitude changes (some are low or high so you can go over or under them).

As an example, when I leave PDK (Atlanta area) going to Lexington, KY to visit my daughter in college I'll often get "radar vectors NELLO, V97, Volunteer (VXV) then direct". Usually by or NELLO or right after I'm given "direct destination/Lexington". On the return they may give me direct PDK, but then usually reroute me coming in for traffic flow.

Going to smaller airports I'm typically given direct once I'm out of the Atlanta area, often just barely out of the area. On the south side of Atlanta I'm given direct while still inside the 30 nm Mode C ring.

Up in the northeast they use V & T airways a lot more, especially between NYC and Boston.

Flying into the Destin area will most likely involve vectors and/or routing as you get near there due to the military flights.
 
If I'm headed short distances or to less congested airspace, typically I'll get direct inflight but never as a clearance. Going to busier areas, same unless it's high traffic that day.
 
IFR can sometimes be easier than VFR in congested airspace like SoCal. No need to avoid all the Class B,C,D airspace, or worry about talking to the correct facility, etc.
 
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