Accident report

benyflyguy

benyflyguy

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benyflyguy
I’m sure the accident listing was previously posted but I think this is the more through review of the accident.

Found two interesting points:
1) guys logbook was signed IFR certified but he actually didn’t have it?!? Why would someone do that, especially in today’s world of instant background check online.
2) that weather radar pic is scary. Can’t imagine he would intentionally fly Into that mess. Was his in flight weather reporting device that delayed, why not take ATC warning? A somber reminder of the limitations of inflight weather reporting systems???

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/06/piper-pa-46-310p-malibu-n465jm-owned-by_17.html?m=1
 
Only one person can answer your questions. I don't think you will receive one.
 
You’re misreading this line @benyflyguy ...

“Although there were entries in the pilot's logbook showing instrument training, the pilot did not hold an instrument rating.”

This says he started working on earning an instrument rating with an instructor but hadn’t yet completed it at the time of the accident.

The accident is mostly just your bog standard “VFR into IMC” accident combined with “flew right into the core of a thunderstorm”.

Looks like the weather was okay to the east and south of where he penetrated the storm. He had an “out” and didn’t take it.

Storm ripped the airplane apart.

He knew he was in trouble before the crash, too, because they found the landing gear in the down and locked position where they found all the pieces of the airplane ripped apart.

He was inside a thunderstorm and momma nature pushed his airspeed above redline. He was probably desperately trying to slow the airplane down and stuck the gear out.

Thunderstorms and airplanes don’t mix. The story often ends with the phrase “the pilot died of blunt force trauma”... when the airplane falls in pieces to the ground and you’re alive the whole way down.

Sadly he even had “NEXRAD” images on board. He saw his death coming many miles away and could have left the area.

Somewhere the message about not going anywhere near a storm cell like that, either wasn’t conveyed, or was ignored.

Moral of his story:
Do not **** with thunderstorms.

Doesn’t matter if he had an instrument rating or not. That storm would have chewed up the airplane and spit it out either way, once he decided to go inside.
 
NEXRAD in the cockpit has killed a few pilots and others since its introduction. The problem is the lag time between the image on the screen and where a fast thunderstorm actually is. He probably thought he was flying towards a hole or away from the core but was indeed flying right into the worst part of the storm.
 
JCranford said:
Yeah, kinda my point
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Yep, that what I was saying too. Happens all the time....people buy beyond their skill and capability. This accident shouldn't have happened but the pilot pushed beyond his ability, with a well equipped plane.
 
I got my pilots license around the same time JKF Jr got his. I had about the same amount of timeflying when he died flying to Martha’s Vineyard. It really affected me as a pilot. I stopped flying for a couple of months then my first few flights after I booked as lessons. Shortly after started working on my IFR. Was pretty intent on getting that done before I ever started flying for true destinations. Got side tracked going to PA school and never finished my IFR. Ultimately got away from flying for 15 years. But when I got back in. Got right back to work on the iFR. When making decisions I still often think about all the errors he made that cost a lot of unnecessary lives lost.

Since I joined this forum I spend a lot of time reading over accident reports and it amazing how it often falls back to poor judgement and decision making.
 
JCranford said:
So at 124 hrs TT he buys a Malibu!? Okey dokee
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If you’re going to train hard in it, that’s not that unreasonable.

The real problem there is a false sense that the well equipped airplane can save you from your lack of skill.

Someone humble who’s pushing to get the IR done and doesn’t push limits? As long as they’re not 100 miles behind the airplane, they’ll get better as they spend time in it, as long as they’re dedicated to continuous training.
 
denverpilot said:
If you’re going to train hard in it, that’s not that unreasonable.

The real problem there is a false sense that the well equipped airplane can save you from your lack of skill.

Someone humble who’s pushing to get the IR done and doesn’t push limits? As long as they’re not 100 miles behind the airplane, they’ll get better as they spend time in it, as long as they’re dedicated to continuous training.
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I wonder if he was insurable in a Malibu without an IR or a CFI in the right seat.
 
asicer said:
I wonder if he was insurable in a Malibu without an IR or a CFI in the right seat.
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Some people go sans-insurance. But I suspect there was probably some limit like 10 hours in type and then he was okay, and he had 24 hours of IFR training, so I bet some of that was in that specific aircraft.
 
If he was flying VFR with flight following and hopefully VMC (he reported he was clear of the weather), how did he get into a violent core of a storm cloud? (judging from the radar echoes)
 
Munson was flying with an instructor. Not really the same thing.
 
Unit74 said:
Money doesn't buy intelligence.
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Nor can you fix stupid...

But what does total hours have to do with the ability to own and fly a specific airplane? I understand ability vs. proficiency. And, my cautious nature would not allow me to own such a plane with out some substantial training. But, and there is always a but, I know of one pilot (aka Malibu Barbie because of where she lives, not what she flies) that has done much of her training; initial and instrument, in a newer 206... Her total hours can't be more than 150, but I would venture to say she has 100 in the 206... I am pretty certain that would make the insurance company pretty happy..
 
I've often wonder if a parachute would help you in a situation like that, or if the convective activity is too severe to do many favors for you
 
Tantalum said:
I've often wonder if a parachute would help you in a situation like that, or if the convective activity is too severe to do many favors for you
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Read The Man Who Rode the Thunder

On July 26, 1959, Rankin was flying from Naval Air Station South Weymouth, Massachusetts to Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort in South Carolina.[4] He climbed over a thunderhead that peaked at 45,000 feet (13,716 m), then—at 47,000 feet (14,326 m) and at mach 0.82—he heard a loud bump and rumble from the engine. The engine stopped, and a fire warning light flashed.[1] He pulled the lever to deploy auxiliary power, and it broke off in his hand. Though not wearing a pressure suit, at 6:00 pm he ejected into the −50 °C (−58 °F) air.[1] He suffered immediate frostbite, and decompression caused his eyes, ears, nose, and mouth to bleed. His abdomen swelled severely. He did, however, manage to make use of his emergency oxygen supply.[1] Five minutes after he abandoned the plane, his parachute hadn't opened. While in the upper regions of the thunderstorm, with near-zero visibility, the parachute opened prematurely instead of at 10,000 feet (3,000 m) due to the storm affecting the barometric parachute switch to open.[5] After ten minutes, Rankin was still aloft, carried by updrafts and getting hit by hailstones. Violent spinning and pounding caused him to vomit. Lightning appeared, which he described as blue blades several feet thick, and thunder that he could feel. The rain forced him to hold his breath to keep from drowning. One lightning bolt lit up the parachute, making Rankin believe he had died.[1] Conditions calmed, and he descended into a forest. His watch read 6:40 pm. It had been 40 minutes since he ejected. He searched for help and eventually was admitted into a hospital at Ahoskie, North Carolina.[1] He suffered from frostbite, welts, bruises, and severe decompression.
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NCAR has or had a reinforced glider they intentially flew into T-storms with lots of instrumentation. And I think an armored T-6 but that might have been someone else.
 
This another very stupid pilot and he took 4 folks with him.
 

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ejensen said:
NCAR has or had a reinforced glider they intentially flew into T-storms with lots of instrumentation. And I think an armored T-6 but that might have been someone else.
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Think the T-6 was someone else. You used to be able to tour the NCAR hangar. I’ve seen the glider. It’s covered in little arc welds where it was struck by lightning. Whoever flew that was nucking futs.

They also had a C-130 they flew through a lot of crap. They had photos on the hallway walls at the hangar of it covered in soot from flying directly through the smoke plumes of the oil well fires in Kuwait.

They have me a big ol’ NCAR sticker as tour swag that I never stuck to anything. It’s probably in a folder in the filing cabinet at home somewhere last I saw it.
 
Ventucky Red said:
But what does total hours have to do with the ability to own and fly a specific airplane?
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Sometimes a lot, sometimes not much. If he was the 'average' pilot he may have had 60+ hours before PPL, leaving only 65 hours before he bought that plane. Maybe he was super-pilot and transitioned just fine from a 172 to a Malibu, although if he went 60+ hours to PPL, probably not. Even if he went 40.0 to PPL still only 85 hrs before the Malibu.

In skydiving there is a fairly logical transition from a big docile canopy (the 172) to a smaller, more agile canopy. You dont make that transition in one jump. Lots of people DO get away with it, but it bites people pretty regularly with predictable results. Its not when everything is going great that you need to be better trained. Its when things are going wrong.
 
denverpilot said:
Think the T-6 was someone else. You used to be able to tour the NCAR hangar. I’ve seen the glider. It’s covered in little arc welds where it was struck by lightning. Whoever flew that was nucking futs.

They also had a C-130 they flew through a lot of crap. They had photos on the hallway walls at the hangar of it covered in soot from flying directly through the smoke plumes of the oil well fires in Kuwait.

They have me a big ol’ NCAR sticker as tour swag that I never stuck to anything. It’s probably in a folder in the filing cabinet at home somewhere last I saw it.
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Found it SD School of Mines
http://www.t28trojanfoundation.com/storm-chaser.html
 
JCranford said:
In skydiving there is a fairly logical transition from a big docile canopy (the 172) to a smaller, more agile canopy. You dont make that transition in one jump. Lots of people DO get away with it, but it bites people pretty regularly with predictable results. Its not when everything is going great that you need to be better trained. Its when things are going wrong.
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111.6 hours in type.... in 6 months!!!!! that is what close to 20 hours a month? I am pretty certain the insurance company wanted to see some training in the airplane as well prior to he flying it solo...

But I agree... lets not start learning when the proverbial dung hits the fan.

The pilot's most recent logbooks were not recovered. However, pilot logbook entries were found dating from December 4, 2014, to December 6, 2015. According to the records, the pilot received his private pilot certificate on June 20, 2015, and logged 242.6 hours of total flight time as of December 6, 2015. The records indicated that the pilot began logging flight time in the accident airplane on July 18, 2015. His time in the accident airplane between that date and December 6, 2015, was 111.6 hours. As of December 6, 2015, the pilot had logged 23.8 hours of actual instrument experience and 1.6 hours of simulated instrument experience. Although there were entries in the pilot's logbook showing instrument training, the pilot did not hold an instrument rating. {/quote]
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I guess the silver lining here is no one else got hurt or killed..
 
Rich people never buy planes they can afford, but are not competent to fly, ever. And they never die with passengers.

Except for the ones that do.
 
Ravioli said:
Rich people never buy planes they can afford, but are not competent to fly, ever. And they never die with passengers.

Except for the ones that do.
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If I’m ever that rich I’ll be dying in a P-51. :) :) :)

Not really kidding. Having that much money lying around would tempt me to buy something I couldn’t handle. I’d like to think I would get good training and not auger it in, but ... pilot potato.

111 hours in a Malibu should have been plenty to know not to fly it into a thunderstorm though and not that hard for a pilot of his hour levels to fly in good weather.

Wonder what the get-home-itis was that was driving him toward that storm line...

Best rule you can teach anyone about weather flying in spamcans is there’s never an event anywhere at any destination so important that anyone will ever mind that you’re not dead trying to get to it.
 
ejensen said:
This another very stupid pilot and he took 4 folks with him.
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The hours this guy accumulated in a very short period of time is hard to believe. Sounds like he had a lot of things wrong with him before the flight though.
 
benyflyguy said:
The hours this guy accumulated in a very short period of time is hard to believe. Sounds like he had a lot of things wrong with him before the flight though.
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I think “wrong with him” may be too strong.

A lack of respect for severe weather has killed pilots with decades more experience than this guy. Mixed with a feeling that the pilot needs to get somewhere today, it’s often lethal.

Astronaut Scott Crossfield was spit out of a thunderstorm in similar fashion in a similarly equipped and performing aircraft, and there’s no questioning he had the experience and knowledge not to go do it.

Some number (small but significant) of pilots tests mother nature’s power inside a thunderstorm almost every year since I was first given a pilot certificate in 1991, and very few live to tell the story. The few who do, to a person, all say “never ever ever again”.
 
denverpilot said:
I think “wrong with him” may be too strong.
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I was referring to some the of medical issues he had going on. Hydrocodone In the system, what sounds like some damning psych issues that sound like they contributed. His desire and drive to push so hard so fast fits the psych drs dx is bipolar with hypomania.
 
benyflyguy said:
I was referring to some the of medical issues he had going on. Hydrocodone In the system, what sounds like some damning psych issues that sound like they contributed. His desire and drive to push so hard so fast fits the psych drs dx is bipolar with hypomania.
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I didn’t see that in the report. But yeah, if he was all drugged up, there was other stuff going on.
 
denverpilot said:
I didn’t see that in the report. But yeah, if he was all drugged up, there was other stuff going on.
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The autopsy part of the report went into detail of the meds in his system. One of them being Prozac. Giving an SSRI (prozac among others) to a person who is bipolar but depressed will flip them into an acute manic episode. The psych recognized this and advised the appropriate action but guys who are manic think there is nothing wrong with them.
 
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