About That Sport Pilot Thing: The State Of Stuff

[Stephen Poole]

After a lot of thought and 'zamulating on the budget, I've decided to go for my Sport Pilot license. I've never been licensed, I've never had a medical. At my age (63), it's just not worth the hassle to go through a medical, possibly have to work with a smart AME to get a special, etc., etc. Yes, I know about Basic Med, but I'd still have to get at least that first medical. Not worth the bother. (Or expense.)

For the flying I have in mind (I've since trimmed it way down, more realistic!), an LSA looks perfect. You guys have convinced me that I ain't gonna be flying when the weather is ugly. (Seriously. As the late Daddy Bush said, "not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.")

While I love night flying, I can live without it. So: LSA is fine. I'm looking at Pipistrel and Flight Design. Occasional XC trips, none to exceed 400NM at the very most. Mostly pleasure, just to look down on stuff and visually destroy it with my thumb as I cackle. That kind of thing.

Here's the problem: finding a school that does Sport Pilot training isn't easy. If you Google it, even with "Sport Pilot training" in quotes, you'll get dozens of schools ... none of which have an LSA available ... some of which do NOT, in fact, do SP training.

Here in Alabama, it appears that the nearest to is in Huntsville, which is going to be a bit of a drive. They have a Cessna 162. (Wish I lived in Tennessee!)

Rentals are another issue. Anyone thinking about getting an SP needs to check their area to see if any are available. Here in Birmingham, there are precisely zero. It's all ancient (70's era) 152s and 172s, all the time.

The big wildcard, of course, is if the FAA ever gets its mind right and eliminates the 3rd class medical and/or increases the weight limit, at which point maybe I'd buy a 177 or 182. (I'd love a 177; that would be ideal.) But I'm saving my money now and I'm studying. We'll see what happens.

At any rate, I think there are reasons why the SP license hasn't become more popular. Just my opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

 

[Clip4]

63 is not that old for a Class 3 medical should you desire to go for a private and save yourself a lot of travel. Make an appointment with an AME as a consultation first if you believe you have issues or questions.

 

[Cluemeister]

You can always go to Florida or North Carolina for a few weeks and do accelerated training. Lockwood in Sebring and Blue Ridge in NC are examples.

 

[Stephen Poole]

63 is not that old for a Class 3 medical should you desire to go for a private and save yourself a lot of travel. Make an appointment with an AME as a consultation first if you believe you have issues or questions.

Didn't mean to imply that 63 was especially old. I'm very active, some days I walk a couple of miles easily. But I'm still not interested in trying to get the medical. The primary reason I posted that was just to share what I'd discovered so far. To hear Pipistrel, Tecnam and Flight Design talk, they've sold enough LSAs to blot out the sun. They're actually very hard to find for rent, at least around here.

 

[Stephen Poole]

You can always go to Florida or North Carolina for a few weeks and do accelerated training. Lockwood in Sebring and Blue Ridge in NC are examples.

Thanks. As a matter of fact, I've looked at Blue Ridge. The problem is, I have a disabled wife who requires care, so she'd have to come with me.

 

[Cluemeister]

What about Crystal Air in Chattanooga? They have a Skycatcher.

 

[Stephen Poole]

What about Crystal Air in Chattanooga? They have a Skycatcher.

Thanks, I'll give them a look. Huntsville would probably be closer, but Chattanooga would be prettier.

 

[Clip4]

Didn't mean to imply that 63 was especially old. I'm very active, some days I walk a couple of miles easily. But I'm still not interested in trying to get the medical. The primary reason I posted that was just to share what I'd discovered so far. To hear Pipistrel, Tecnam and Flight Design talk, they've sold enough LSAs to blot out the sun. They're actually very hard to find for rent, at least around here.

What you may be missing is a Class 3 is a one time event with basic med. Also while I will raise the hackles of many on this board, LSAs suck. I would go fly powered parchute before wasting my time with Light Sport.

 

[Van Johnston]

You could go ahead and start your training locally in whatever is available. You just won’t be able to solo without the medical. Then when you’ve done all you can do locally and without soloing, make the transition to LSA and finish up.

Good luck.

 

[DaleB]

Look at it this way. You have already discovered that, once you HAVE your license, there's nothing available to rent anyway. So what will you fly once you have your ticket? If you're going to train for a Sport Pilot license, you may as well buy now and train in your own airplane. And I'd seriously consider looking at a used E-LSA RV-12 as well.

Don't want to commit to the big bucks? Find a nice Champ. They're as slow as molasses on a cold day, but pretty cheap. You'll come out of it with better stick & rudder skills, and a tailwheel endorsement. You can always unload it later when you're ready for something somewhat faster. It will take an hour or two to transition from the rudimentary instruments in a Champ to a modern glass panel, at least for day VFR flying. There's really nothing at all wrong, though, with buying your own plane and training in it as long as you know you have in instructor who will fly with you.

 

[Kansas Flyer]

Have you asked around at your local airports? There's plenty of people that find CFIs or planes through word of mouth. I did.

+1 on finding a CFI that is willing to train you in your own aircraft.

 

[mcdewey]

Chesapeake Sport Pilot in Stevensville, MD (chesapeakesportpilot.com) has four LSA, two Tecnam Eaglet P92, two Vans RV-12. I know it's way out of state for you, but give them a call if you want to set up accelerated training.

They don't have a Pipistrel or Flight Design, but I got my SP license in the Eaglet, then flew the CTLS and a Remos GX. (Got PP in Remos) Not a hard transition. I've also flown the Tecnam Sierra and RV12. Again, no big deal. Currently working on my instrument in a 172 so it wasn't hard to transition to "non-sucky" aircraft.

Sure, if you want fly 1000's of miles at Mach speeds with three hefty friends and a four sets of golf clubs, LSA ain't the way to go.

LSA are great aircraft to fly: 5 gph on unleaded mogas (even with ethanol) , 110 kts, and modern instruments and engines (Rotax). Economical and a joy to fly. An RV-12 is about the most fun you can have while wearing clothing.

 

[Tbag]

I think Dale is spot on. I got my sport pilot and there a zero rental airplanes around. So I bought one. People bag on LSA and I just add up the costs. I am flying for under $35 an hour by my math.....

I would buy an RV and train in it locally. You can always get your private later and sell the RV if needed. Under 4GPH accomplishes the mission of making me smile on a budget that keeps my family happy.

The Pipistrel Sinus SW is intriguing and the CT has a great reputation, but the RV12 as an EAB can be had a lot cheaper. Don't let the naysayers effect you, just buy an airplane and get your license in it. Easiest way with LSA imho.

 

[Stephen Poole]

If you're going to train for a Sport Pilot license, you may as well buy now and train in your own airplane. And I'd seriously consider looking at a used E-LSA RV-12 as well.

To be clear, I've already decided that. Like I said in my original post, I'm looking at Flight Design or Pipistrel. Maybe a Tecnam 92.

 

[Stephen Poole]

You could go ahead and start your training locally in whatever is available. You just won’t be able to solo without the medical. Then when you’ve done all you can do locally and without soloing, make the transition to LSA and finish up.

Huh. Proof that I'm not a pilot. I never thought of that. HMMMM ....

 

[Stephen Poole]

I would buy an RV and train in it locally.

Hmmm. I need to look at the RV-12 again. The biggest complaint was the low wing. My wife is disabled and would have a very hard time climbing over the wing to get in. (My very first post here discussed that, and I didn't know anything about the PPL at the time, so several folks suggested the Cessna 177 as ideal.)

 

[DaleB]

I think Dale is spot on. I got my sport pilot and there a zero rental airplanes around. So I bought one. People bag on LSA and I just add up the costs. I am flying for under $35 an hour by my math.....

Your math is not off. I have a co-owner; we calculated around $33/hour with engine reserve, consumables, maintenance, etc. I think we're pretty close.

 

[mcdewey]

Hmmm. I need to look at the RV-12 again. The biggest complaint was the low wing. My wife is disabled and would have a very hard time climbing over the wing to get in. (My very first post here discussed that, and I didn't know anything about the PPL at the time, so several folks suggested the Cessna 177 as ideal.)

I have a disabled friend (uses walker); a low wing is impossible for her and an RV-12 wouldn't work. I've taken her in a Cardinal and while we had to lift her up some, with a step it would a piece of cake to get her in. Cardinal is a great plane; enormous doors (hold on tight in the wind!), no strut. Watch your flare when landing. It's no LSA, maybe you were thinking of the C182 (SkyCatcher)

 

[Van Johnston]

Huh. Proof that I'm not a pilot. I never thought of that. HMMMM ....

Couple of other things that will do for you:

1. After a couple of lessons you’ll know if this flying thing is really for you and you want to stick it out, or not. If that is not the case, better to find out early on before investing in a plane.
2. Assuming you find an instructor willing to press on past the point where you would normally solo, and go on a dual cross country, take the wife along to confirm you’re both comfortable with accommodating her disability, and that she’s comfortable with travel by light GA in general. If all is good, then focus purchase efforts on high wing. If not and looks like most of your flying will be solo, then that opens your options to low wings also (which are superior anyway).

 

[ejensen]

What you may be missing is a Class 3 is a one time event with basic med. Also while I will raise the hackles of many on this board, LSAs suck. I would go fly powered parchute before wasting my time with Light Sport.

Sorry you feel that way. My Jabiru out performs a 172 ans is a serious cross country plane.
Plenty of baggage. It was a four seat plane, they pulled the rear seats and put a weight restriction in the Flight Manual

 

[Dana]

LSAs only suck if you have a mission that precludes LSAs. If your mission is just enjoying flying around in a nice day while not spending a lot of money, LSA is perfect and most larger/faster planes suck.

But yeah, LSA rental availability sucks.

 

[DaleB]

What you may be missing is a Class 3 is a one time event with basic med. Also while I will raise the hackles of many on this board, LSAs suck. I would go fly powered parchute before wasting my time with Light Sport.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Some people must be downright ecstatic.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

To hear Pipistrel, Tecnam and Flight Design talk, they've sold enough LSAs to blot out the sun. They're actually very hard to find for rent, at least around here.

LSA's are selling very well. Just not to flight schools.

 

[Palmpilot]

What you may be missing is a Class 3 is a one time event with basic med. Also while I will raise the hackles of many on this board, LSAs suck. I would go fly powered parchute before wasting my time with Light Sport.

During the two years when I flew exclusively LSAs, I was surprised by how much fun I had. I even flew a 600 mile cross-country in one. I do admit that the limitations were a pain in the rear though. (I learned to pack light!)

 

[kath]

Mostly pleasure, just to look down on stuff and visually destroy it with my thumb as I cackle. That kind of thing.

Heh heh heh! I like this one. POA, can we keep 'im?

The way you write, makes me think you should just start training, and have fun, and let the future figure itself out. Like others have said, there are no decision points or barriers until solo time. You can always change planes, change schools, change instructors, change certificate ambitions, later. Skills are transferrable, hours are yours forever, and fun is non-refundable!

 

[MauleSkinner]

During the two years when I flew exclusively LSAs, I was surprised by how much fun I had. I even flew a 600 mile cross-country in one. I do admit that the limitations were a pain in the rear though. (I learned to pack light!)

When I look back at my personal flying, there's very little that I couldn't have done in an LSA...although 40 knots of wind would probably have been a little excessive for the ones I'd have chosen.

 

[RonP]

I got my PPL 5 years ago at the age of 58 and had no issues with the medical and did basic med last year when it was time to renew my medical. I had looked into the Sport Pilot (SP) to save money and the closest airport that had 2 to rent was 3 hours away when locally within 30 minutes are 2 airports that have lots of non SP rentals (152, 172, Warrior, Archer, Arrow, DA40 and DA20) and instructors.

I also considered buying an airplane in the SP category but the budget was under $30,000 which was mostly rag wings (Cubs, Champs, Chiefs) that lacked electrical systems and no electric starters; I.E. hand propping only. Plus hangar space is at a premium here and outside tie down was more available. I am sure lots of people keep fabric covered airplanes outside but that did not appeal to me compared to an aluminum airplane.

I never researched the SP any further and learned in a 152 then 172 and checked out in a Warrior and Archer. For my limited research and lack of SP rentals near me the best choice was go right for the PPL.

As for an airplane I currently have a Cherokee 140 which is within the original budget and are very plentiful, low cost to buy, maintain and fly. For me when I looked at the cost differences and convenience it did not add up to pursue the SP.

 

[DaleB]

I even flew a 600 mile cross-country in one.

I did just under 800 NM just bringing mine home. We did have to stop overnight due to weather, so 550+ were day 2. No problem doing 120 knots true at max gross weight, at a few GPH less than a 172 or Cherokee would have burned going slower.

If you're flying a Mooney, or a 182, or a Bo, PC-12, or King Air, then yeah -- LSA is going to seem really limiting. You can't just make blanket statements about LSA, though. Tere's not much commonality between, for example, a Challenger, Ercoupe or Champ and an RV-12.

 

[Half Fast]

You can always go to Florida or North Carolina for a few weeks and do accelerated training. Lockwood in Sebring and Blue Ridge in NC are examples.

Also First Landings in Apopka, FL. Y'know, maybe you should just move to NC or FL......

 

[Stephen Poole]

Also First Landings in Apopka, FL. Y'know, maybe you should just move to NC or FL......

The plan is to move to NC eventually (a few years from now), probably somewhere around the Fayetteville area, since that's where we're from originally. I could probably sweet talk my cousin and his wife into letting me base my LSA at NR20, a grass strip owned by his wife's family. Right at the very edge of the Ft. Bragg MOA! Have to be careful when taking off ... (and still have to dodge the parachutes over the P. K. Airpark!).

 

[Stephen Poole]

Heh heh heh! I like this one. POA, can we keep 'im?

The way you write, makes me think you should just start training, and have fun, and let the future figure itself out.

That's pretty much been my philosophy all along -- work, church, play, whatever. I'm not in any big hurry. Anytime I face a test, I study for quite a while first. Also, still saving the money. But I didn't know about using a "regular" CFI and airplane to do the bulk of my training! Like I said above, "hmmm ..."

 

[Stephen Poole]

I also considered buying an airplane in the SP category but the budget was under $30,000 ...

Like I said, one reason for this post was just to share my "so-far" observations. I've long since realized that if the average POA member had $100,000 to drop on a plane, it's going to be a USED something fast, IFR-rated, etc., whatever. There's almost no talk here of dropping that on an LSA.

LSAs haven't been on the market long enough for a large number of good used planes to go on sale. A few Tecnams, some Flight Designs, NO used Pipistrels -- that I've seen, anyway.

No, I don't think you could get much LSA for $30,000. You COULD get a decent Cessna or PIper for that, if you take your time. Or so it seems to me.

(I h'ain't no expert and don't claim to be.)

 

[X3 Skier]

No, I don't think you could get much LSA for $30,000. You COULD get a decent Cessna or PIper for that, if you take your time. Or so it seems to me.

(I h'ain't no expert and don't claim to be.)

Ercoupe, Champ even an Ultralight like an Aerolite or build your own Sonex, Zenith etc.

Depends on a definition of “much LSA”.

Cheers

 

[Stephen Poole]

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Some people must be downright ecstatic.

One common question here seems to be, "what's your mission?" For what I want to do, a good LSA will be a gracious plenty. *IF* the FAA ever increases the weight limits/number of seats, and/or eliminates the 3rd medical, then yeah, I'd love to move up to a 4-seater, just because. The 177 (and not the 182, though I certainly wouldn't mind one of those, either!) seemed to be the best fit for me IF that FAA action ever comes true.

LSA - much, MUCH lower cost to operate. Rotax engines actually appeal to me, especially the fuel-injected ones. The Remos and newer Tecnams are quiet inside -- most of the reviews I've read of the latter remarked that it was possible to hold a normal conversation in flight (edit)withOUT a NC headset.

Unfortunately, a lot of people think "Cessna 162" when they hear, "LSA," and I think that's unfortunate. There are much better planes available, in my admittedly-non-expert opinion.

Pipistrel really excites me. They're working with Honeywell on the Hot Thing of the moment -- autonomous flying car/taxi stuff. Their new Panthera seems to be really nice. Pipistrel is also ahead of most on all-electric (the Alpha Trainer Electro, for example).

I get tickled at the aviation press comparing Tecnam's new 2010 to the Cessna 172, when it would obviously be more fair to compare it to the 182. Look at the specs. Then look at the price, which is WAY cheaper than a new 182.

No, I realized a couple of months ago that I was probably going to go LSA/SP, and I'm still headed that way.

 

[frfly172]

lSAs are coming onto the used market,you might be better off,buying an airplane .

 

[Half Fast]

One common question here seems to be, "what's your mission?" For what I want to do, a good LSA will be a gracious plenty. *IF* the FAA ever increases the weight limits/number of seats, and/or eliminates the 3rd medical, then yeah, I'd love to move up to a 4-seater, just because.

Buy a Jabiru and be ready for the change without needing to change planes!

 

[Stephen Poole]

Buy a Jabiru and be ready for the change without needing to change planes!

Hah! I forgot to mention the Jab. I looked at it closely, and like you, was amused that it's the original 4-seat plane with two seats pulled out.

 

[Warmi]

Th SP priviledges are actually quite popular but mostly as a way for PP licensed pilots to keep flying without the medical - there are about 7000 pure SP certificate holders and I suspect another 3-4 times as many PP holders with lapsed medicals flying under SP rules ...

By FAA standards, the SP rule was a smashing sucesss with that many certificate holders - just look at their recreational pilot option, which they still maintain, that accounts for something like 100 folks with the certificate ...

 

[pigpenracing]

I'll sell you the Airbike... No license needed for ultralight

 

[Joey4420]

I am a Sport Pilot and my plan at this time is to stay as a SP. It meets my mission of fun flying to airports within 3 hours of KHAO (Butler County airport in Ohio). I have flown farther on several occasions, even flew to OshKosh this last year in my Ercoupe, 6 hours of flying and talked to no one except making radio calls to land at non-towered fields to get fuel and bathroom breaks. I put 130 hours on my Ercoupe last year, this year so far is a very slow start due to weather, but hoping to still get around 100 hours. I also plan to fly to First Flight airport this year and would enjoy flying back to OshKosh again.

Basically it is up to your mission and what you want to do. My mission is fun flying on the cheap.