About Pilots n Paws

BrianR

BrianR

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Aug 31, 2011
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Upstate NY
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BrianR
I have thought for a while this would be a good use of my time (and some money). I talked to the reps at the AOPA Summit thing last year. Finally got around to signing up on their website a week or so ago. Responded to a few requests for transport. I only responded to ones which appeared to originate from bonafide rescues. I didn't bother with the silly ones ('DESPERATE DOG NEEDS TO GET FROM ALASKA TO EAST COAST BY TOMORROW"). Then I sat back and waited...and waited...and waited.

Oh, I got a couple replies. "Thanks for responding, blah blah blah, I will let you know." Then...never another word. And nobody seems able to respond to an e-mail after about 4 p.m. What's the deal with these people? You'd think, if they are as desperate as they claim, they'd jump at the offers. Now, the requests to which I responded would likely have all required two legs/pilots, so maybe they just couldn't coordinate it. I don't know. I'm willing to fly 200-300 miles one way, as are most pilots, I assume.

I've read the pilot FAQs on the site. It's not really clear to me whether it's better to respond on their forum, or directly e-mail the poster. I've tried both. Maybe it's because I am a new volunteer and they've never heard of me, but still...

I know others of you on here do this. Is my experience typical?
 
There are three major groups out there that do animal rescue by airplane. Pilots'n'Paws, Animal Rescue Flights, and Cloud Nine Rescue Flights (which I happen to be the founder of).

Pilots'n'Paws really doesn't do anything to facilitate transports. All they do is provide you with a message board where people who need transports can try to get in touch with people who provide transports. This ends up being a bit of a free-for-all that can work, but often times has the results that you described. You also don't have any screening on who's requesting the transports that I know of.

Animal Rescue Flights (www.animalrescueflights.org) is more structured. They do have screening of the people requesting the transports, and they then have coordinators who attempt to find pilots among the group for particular missions. It is very nice and easy for the pilots. Typically, ARF flights will run multiple legs and cover a longer distance. The negative with ARF flights is that it only takes one pilot to break the chain. I had a number of times when I got called at 6 AM to get told that the pilot before me cancelled, and did I either want to pick up his leg as well or just cancel the trip? I typically took the other leg as well, but it's a consideration.

Then there's my group, which pretty much is closed off to volunteers helping because of how we're structured.

I would recommend looking into ARF and seeing if you might want to do some flights for them.
 
What's worked the best for me is finding a rescue group that you work with on a regular basis and make it know what type of flights you can do. Generally they'll email you when they have a need and coordinate putting the legs together. Generally you don't want more than two legs in a flight because it just becomes a logistical nightmare. My hangar neighbor and I have partnered up to split legs, where he picks them up in the Carolinas and brings them up to our airport outside of DC, and I continue on with them to the Northeast.
 
Brian,

Mid Atlantic English Springer Spaniel Rescue (MAESSR) has flights through out the mid-atlantic area. MAESSR is a fun group that is always looking to move rescues to their furever homes. Here is the web page and a contact email.

Web page - http://www.maessr.org/
Contact Debbie at Springerfarm@aol.com

Some of our rescue flights....
http://gmflightlog.blogspot.com/2011/07/angel-and-polo-rescue.html
http://gmflightlog.blogspot.com/2010/11/maessr-first-flight.html
http://gmflightlog.blogspot.com/2011/07/jacksons-rescue.html
 
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I have never had a good experience with PnP. The last flight I did for them was a pit bull from KMJX to KBTV. There was NO paperwork at all, when I got to the airport in Vermont , the receivers said the animal was nowhere near what was represented to them.

I never got the required paperwork for tax deduction.

600 mile trip, 400 dollars in fuel, and I never even got a thank you. Needless to say, I no longer accept their missions.

YMMV




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I have put my name in for about four flights so far and not one of them has happened for one reason or another. It does help when a volunteer coordinator plans out the legs and then tries to coordinate the pilots, but even with that it seems like a crap shoot..
 
Find a rescue group in your area to deal with and do flights for them. This is one of those things that you do because you love animals, not because you need a tax write-off. Planning the flights is time consuming and can be frustrating, but it's totally worth it to save that one animal.
 
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<------ Meet Baron (formerly Max) who is a blind and deaf "double dapple" dachshund who wouldn't have had a chance had he stayed in the kill shelter where he was relinquished by his former owner(s) in NW Arkansas. Pilots 'n Paws gave him a chance at a better life with a dachshund rescue in Indiana that was willing to keep him until a good home could be found for a dog with his special needs. Sure, the logistics and the MANY back and forth texts and e-mails of organizing a multi-leg transport can be a PITA when everyone's busy weekend schedule(s) all seem to collide at once, but at the end of the day when you can see how grateful the receiving rescue is when the transport is completed in less than half the time it would have taken over the ground, I think it's all worth it. I happen to know that it was worth it to Baron. :D :D
 
Well, I won't write them off yet. But "disorganized" does seem to aptly describe their process.

Ted and Gary, thanks for those other links. I'll check them out.
 
DavidWhite said:
Find a rescue group in your area to deal with and do flights for them. This is one of those things that you do because you love animals, not because you need a tax write-off. Planning the flights is time consuming and can be frustrating, but it's totally worth it to save that one animal.
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It is something that you do because you love animals, but there also needs to be some effort to make it reasonable for the volunteers involved.

As I said, PnP is really just a message board, which they freely admit. Unlike ARF and Cloud Nine, PnP leaders focus on getting more press out about their organization to increase awareness and their size. ARF and Cloud Nine leaders focus on the mission at hand.
 
flygirl34q said:
<------ Meet Baron (formerly Max) who is a blind and deaf "double dapple" dachshund who wouldn't have had a chance had he stayed in the kill shelter where he was relinquished by his former owner(s) in NW Arkansas. Pilots 'n Paws gave him a chance at a better life with a dachshund rescue in Indiana that was willing to keep him until a good home could be found for a dog with his special needs. Sure, the logistics and the MANY back and forth texts and e-mails of organizing a multi-leg transport can be a PITA when everyone's busy weekend schedule(s) all seem to collide at once, but at the end of the day when you can see how grateful the receiving rescue is when the transport is completed in less than half the time it would have taken over the ground, I think it's all worth it. I happen to know that it was worth it to Baron. :D :D
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Thanks FlyGirl. I couldn't have said it better. First (in response to one poster), it is not the responsibility of anybody but the pilot to provide the paperwork necessary for IRS purposes. That form is available on the PnP site. Secondly, "NO", things don't always run smoothly. It's not an airline (not that they do so great). It's a bunch of volunteers who at all ends of the process work tirelessly to transport abused, neglected, and unwanted animals to a better life. Sometimes thing get screwed up. The biggest percentage of time transports happen without a hitch.

To the poster who didn't feel properly appreciated: If you want the white-glove and scarf type of flight, this ain't for you pal. I've transported over 125 dogs (I'm just a newbie) and have met some of the kindest people on the planet. The thanks that I get is from the dogs themselves. I honestly believe they know we are there to help them. No red carpets, no bands playing, just a good feeling in your heart when the flight is over. And yes, sometimes a stinky crate.

Yes Ted, PnP gets a lot of media attention. In my opinion it is well deserved. The organization is by volunteers for volunteers. See the word "volunteer"? The best way to recruit people to helping on the ground and in the air is by using the media to show what we do. We do it for free. Do you? Thought so.

I could write a book, but then again somebody already did "Dog is My Copilot". If reading that doesn't give the naysayers pause for thought, then they should stick with the $100 hamburger. If you want to roll up your sleeves, do some good for helpless animals, and feel good about yourself and the use of your airplane, then do it.

Sorry FlyGirl. My fingers just ran away with me. Didn't mean to hijack your comments. I just wanted to say you are "right on".
 
Pa28-140 said:
Yes Ted, PnP gets a lot of media attention. In my opinion it is well deserved. The organization is by volunteers for volunteers. See the word "volunteer"? The best way to recruit people to helping on the ground and in the air is by using the media to show what we do. We do it for free. Do you? Thought so.
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I never said the attention wasn't deserved. It brings attention to the cause, which is important, and gains volunteers. However, the problems that the OP stated are common with it because of its structure. Its positive is that it has a large number of people and coordinates probably the largest number of animals to be moved overall among the organizations that exist. Conversely, it is not user-friendly.

Because of how Cloud Nine is designed, we are only able to work with a small number of groups. I got tons of requests for individual dogs. That's not what we do, and not very many groups can actually fill an Aztec or a 310. That said, last year we transported over 500 animals. Not bad when you figure that was just Danos and me doing all the flights.

And yeah, I've never been paid. So I'm a volunteer. Same for Danos, my wife, our web designer...
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I never said the attention wasn't deserved. It brings attention to the cause, which is important, and gains volunteers. However, the problems that the OP stated are common with it because of its structure. Its positive is that it has a large number of people and coordinates probably the largest number of animals to be moved overall among the organizations that exist. Conversely, it is not user-friendly.

Because of how Cloud Nine is designed, we are only able to work with a small number of groups. I got tons of requests for individual dogs. That's not what we do, and not very many groups can actually fill an Aztec or a 310. That said, last year we transported over 500 animals. Not bad when you figure that was just Danos and me doing all the flights.

And yeah, I've never been paid. So I'm a volunteer. Same for Danos, my wife, our web designer...
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We will have to have a chat when you have finished the move...
 
Skylane81E said:
We will have to have a chat when you have finished the move...
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Definitely! Actually we should chat sooner. Wanted to continue our engine discussion we started a few weeks back.
 
I've done one Pilots n Paws flight. It was a lot of fun (my write up). But note that unlike some other organizations Pilots n Paws is "DIY Logistics". That means pilots themselves figure out the legs usually on some email chain that starts with a forum post. It isn't organized. Many pilots don't have good email behavior either, and it is frustrating. But if you like "logistics" and leg planning then you might really like PnP.

As much as I perversely enjoy figuring out my own logistics I'd like to get involved with ARF too.
 
spinfire said:
I've done one Pilots n Paws flight. It was a lot of fun (my write up). But note that unlike some other organizations Pilots n Paws is "DIY Logistics". That means pilots themselves figure out the legs usually on some email chain that starts with a forum post. It isn't organized. Many pilots don't have good email behavior either, and it is frustrating. But if you like "logistics" and leg planning then you might really like PnP.

As much as I perversely enjoy figuring out my own logistics I'd like to get involved with ARF too.
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Hey Dan, your blog post about your flight was one of the things which reminded me this was something I wanted to try.

Yeah, I have figured out it can be frustrating, and still working on figuring out the chain of communication. None of the transports for which I've volunteered have come to fruition, and yet another, which I really thought might happen, just cancelled.

But I will give it more time and see what happens.
 
FWIW My mother in law's dog is visiting right now.

A PnP puppy shanghaied on his way from Mississippi to New York
 
BrianR said:
Yeah, I have figured out it can be frustrating, and still working on figuring out the chain of communication. None of the transports for which I've volunteered have come to fruition, and yet another, which I really thought might happen, just cancelled.

But I will give it more time and see what happens.
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FWIW, this doesn't change much. ARF filters it, but other pilots still can be flaky, and so can the rescue organizations. Animal rescue is a lot of fun and the puppy kisses are worth it, but the people can, in many cases, be the challenging side of it.

I liked ARF because it effectively has dispatch. The pilots have to determine their own go/no-go, obviously, but otherwise the missions and such were given to me. They filter out the groups ahead of time, so you typically don't have to worry about a dog not showing up with paperwork, etc.

The way I view it is pretty simple. ARF, PnP, and CN are all organizations helping the same goal. The three groups go about it differently and as such have different strengths and weaknesses, and all fill a slightly different niche within the need to move animals.
 
Steve Foley said:
I'm the webmaster and software developer for Pilots N Paws. I'd certainly appreciated any specific suggestions for making the site more user friendly.
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Sorry, what I was referring to was not the web design itself, but as far as logistics and the like as the OP mentioned. This could, perhaps, be helped with automation, but seems to typically work best with human interaction of some form.
 
I've done two PnP missions so far and would be willing to do more. I've yet to encounter a pilot I'd consider flaky. The 3-4 I've tried to coordinate with have been up front about limitations, conflicts, and what they were willing to do. The ground handlers have been great. I never expected the organization to do the work of putting everything together.

I was told by the ground organizer on my last mission in January that PnP can furnish crates to pilots who need them. I've yet to inquire about that so I can't vouch for its accuracy.
 
I hate to say it but from my experience a piece of the FAQ on basic email techniques could be helpful. Usually the discussion seems to move off the forum once a few pilots have responded and then if someone isn't doing a proper reply-all then all the participants get out of sync.

I was added to a chain of emails by someone who I met through that pilots n paws flight hoping I might be able to make a weekday flight. I wasn't, and replied as such. But then other people responded to my message directly to me and no one else trying to coordinate the flight. Conversely, not trimming the CC list of people who are no longer relevant to the flight is similarly silly. I continued to get emails CC'd or addressed directly to me about a flight I had no ability to participate in.

I do logistics-esque things for some volunteer run events (Tim Metzinger would also call it "SMOFing" :) ) and some email discipline is absolutely critical. Think before you send, check the recipient list, and quote context appropriately so people know WTF you're talking about.
 
azure said:
I've done two PnP missions so far and would be willing to do more. I've yet to encounter a pilot I'd consider flaky.
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My last attempt was foiled by a pilot whose alternator was flaky but I don't think we can fault him for that!

I will definitely do more PnP soon (right now the Cardinal is AOG for actuator o-ring replacement).
 
Steve Foley said:
I'm the webmaster and software developer for Pilots N Paws. I'd certainly appreciated any specific suggestions for making the site more user friendly.
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Steve,

In my opinion, it would be very helpful to set it so that replies on a forum to which one has posted are automatically e-mailed. I realize one gets the e-mail notification of a new post, but it's an added step to have to go back to the forum to actually read it.
 
Steve Foley said:
I'm the webmaster and software developer for Pilots N Paws. I'd certainly appreciated any specific suggestions for making the site more user friendly.
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I only have one gripe, I get annoyed receiving alerts for flights from Florida to North Carolina and the like. IIRC my distance is set to 300miles and any route that even catches the edge of that circle goes to my inbox.
 
BrianR said:
Steve,

In my opinion, it would be very helpful to set it so that replies on a forum to which one has posted are automatically e-mailed. I realize one gets the e-mail notification of a new post, but it's an added step to have to go back to the forum to actually read it.
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That's a function of the PhpBB software. The reason it does that is so that it won't continue sending you messages if you aren't reading them. When you go to the forum to read whatever the update is, the system puts you back on the notification list. Until you do, your name is marked to not receive updates.

At one time I looked into this, but also ran into problems formatting the messages. The messages are formatted with BBcode (like the smile faces used here) that would require additional programming to format to a mail message. We also get complaints from people when sending html formatted messages, so we really need to keep the messages as simple as possible.
 
Skylane81E said:
I only have one gripe, I get annoyed receiving alerts for flights from Florida to North Carolina and the like. IIRC my distance is set to 300miles and any route that even catches the edge of that circle goes to my inbox.
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The additional calculations to determine if the origin or destination airport are within the specified distance to your airport causes server timeouts, so no messages at all go out. If I come up with a more efficient formula, I'll try it.
 
It would appear that vBulletin smokes PHPBB in this regard. One can sign up for all subscribed messages here and at other vBulletin driven sites.
 
flyingmedic said:
I have never had a good experience with PnP. The last flight I did for them was a pit bull from KMJX to KBTV. There was NO paperwork at all, when I got to the airport in Vermont , the receivers said the animal was nowhere near what was represented to them.

I never got the required paperwork for tax deduction.

600 mile trip, 400 dollars in fuel, and I never even got a thank you. Needless to say, I no longer accept their missions.

YMMV




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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You're doing this for the benefit of the dog, right? Is the tax deduction that important? Charity is giving, not receiving.
 
BillyBH said:
You're doing this for the benefit of the dog, right? Is the tax deduction that important? Charity is giving, not receiving.
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While this is true, if one is supposed to receive a tax deduction for their efforts, it is prudent to make sure they receive it.

That said, our furry friend indicated that PnP doesn't send out the tax deductions, you can do it yourself (which is logical).
 
Hi, I'm new to this board. I fly for various charity organizations including Angel Flight and PilotsNPaws. Recently, I’ve seen PNP’s request for donations and “votes” for grants. Now with AF, I understand why $$ is needed. They screen patients, set up flights, etc. I am having a hard time understanding what $$ PNP needs. Everything is done through a message board and you deal directly with the people on the board. Other than the cost of maintaining a website, what other $$ are needed? And where does this money go? I don’t mind donating my time, my plane and my expenses for a worthy cause, including flying our furry friends. But I question who gets this donated money and what it is used for. Anyone have any insight?

 
Lindy,

Welcome to POA! I should point out that since I started this thread a few months ago, I've completed four (I think) transports for PnP. It does help when the regulars recognize your name. And the majority of them still don't occur, for one reason or another.

But as to your question, I wondered the same thing when I saw them start posting all over the place looking for donations. In my research, I found that they do have a salaried executive director. They provide crates and harnesses to the pilots and ground transporters free of charge. Perhaps they pay for sterilization, although I can't really tell if that's paid for by the organization or by volunteers. They also say funds are needed for insurance, office supplies, website maintenance and community education. Their board of directors is not compensated, as far as I can tell.

I think they could be more forthcoming about why, exactly, they are soliciting donations. But I do believe it's all above board.
 
I don't do business with charities that don't publish a 3rd party audit. Way too much corruption.
 
lindy500 said:
But I question who gets this donated money and what it is used for. Anyone have any insight?
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From http://pilotsnpaws.org/donate/

The gifts we receive go toward: pilot education through aviation events, planned elementary school education on responsible pet ownership, and community education on pet sterilization and proper care of animals. It also goes toward transportable animal crates which includes shipment across the country to our pilots, insurance (which we are required to have) website management, brochures, and office supplies.
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Without a published audit, it's just as likely fiction as info. Not trying to be an ass, but there's a right way and a wrong way to operate a charity.

Same as you can hire the guy who doesn't file building permits to fix your house, or you can get the permitted, licensed, insured, and properly vetted folk.

Your call, but when it blows up in your face, you get no sympathy by crying.

The biggest and most entertaining explosion in recent years is the Susan G. Komen Foundation. You know, the pink ribbon breast cancer folks? When they got into the big money, completely legitimate alternative breast cancer fundraisers trying to use the pink ribbon symbol were sued for trademark infringement. That's right. Sued for a ribbon.

Komen hired lots of top notch PR people to spin it as protecting donors from bad places. Uh huh. Bad meaning, not you, right?

When pressed for their financials, it was found that many high-ranking staffers made insanely large salaries.

Do they do good? Sure. Is their overhead wasting a large percentage of donations? Your call. Read their books. If they don't publish them, walk away.

The over $5M donated to victims of the Aurora shooting here locally is being held hostage by a donation management charity/company. They've paid out $350K to victims and $100K to ten mental health organizations. No one donating expected their money to go to those organizations. The victims and families are screaming in the Press that the State Governor should get involved.

One guy running a big fundraiser last weekend made it clear in the press that he was handing his donation check to one of the victim's father who said he'd make sure it would get directly in the hands of the victims with no middle man. It's disgusting.

That kind of stuff is what happens when the books aren't public. I simply won't play.
 
Steve Foley said:
If you don't want to play, that's fine. But I find your statement that Debi is as likely as not committing fraud offensive.
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That's just facts, sir. You may feel free to be offended all you wish. You act as if I said the organization or Debi (whoever that is) was a liar. Get over yourself. I didn't.

Without published fact, it's still the truth. Debi may be the nicest person in the world and following all the rules, or she may not. It's not a personal judgement on her. It's fact that without a published audit, no one knows.

What's so hard about that? It's not offensive.

Auditors exist for a reason. I can say all day long in my newly formed investment company, GiveNateYourMoney.com that your $1M investment is safe with me, and you'll get it all back plus interest, in five years.

Unless you demand regular third party audits of my new investment firm, you don't have a damn clue where the money is.

I can say all day long that the work I did on your electrical box at your house is perfectly safe and your family is in no danger of anything. If you didn't check that I'm licensed, have me pull a building permit so a city inspector will check my work, and make sure I have insurance in case I screwed something up, you're just guessing.

Charity is no different. It's nothing to be offended about. If you want to hand someone money without hard documentation of where it is being spent, you're certainly allowed.

It doesn't change the fact that any charity without a published third party audit is as likely to be doing something good with the money or bad.

I'm sure Debi, whoever that is, is a nice person. If I ever meet her and she asks for money, I'll either make the amount something small enough that if I find out later she was buying crack in an alley with it, I won't be all that concerned about it.

Or I'll ask her if her organization is audited by 3rd party professionals, if the dollar amount is high enough that I care.

Personally (and I've mentioned this before) I only give to charities that help humans. We haven't dealt with keeping our brothers and sisters fed and clothed yet, so unfortunately stray dogs and cats fall lower on my personal priorities list.

But I harbor no ill will other than shaking my head a little at animal rescue organizations. I'm sure they can handle the intense offensiveness of my head wagging and occasional comments about it. ;)

I'm sure Debi is strong enough and smart enough to know when it's time to start paying for audits too. Probably the first time someone walks up with a trust from a Will or other seriously large donation amount, the Trustee will demand it. Until then, it's their business to run as they see fit.

Doesn't change the truth of my statement though, and getting offended about it is pretty silly.

I'm offended 2+2=4!

Great. Be offended. It ain't gonna change it.

If I'd said, "I suspect them of fraud", you'd have something to be offended about. I did not.
 
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