AATD and commercial

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Dylan Sparks

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Dpilot1994
Hi, quick question about AATD Sims. I have 190 hours of flight time in an airplane and am trying to meet all the requirements for my commercial checkride, I have 20 hours in a SIM with a CFII when I was obtaining my instrument. I know I can do 50 hours total of sim time towards commercial in total so that I can keep my cost down. My question is, can I do the remaining 30 hours by myself in a simulator or do I have to have an instructor with me to be able to count those 30 hours. I'm having a little bit of confusion on the 61.129 translation for using an authorized AATD. Thanks to anyone who can further help on this topic.
 
I do not work with simulator time much, so I could be missing something, but:

If you're referring to 61.129(i), note that that paragraph allows 50 hours of credit but only when using a Full Flight Simulator or a Flight Training Device. FFS and FTD are specific, advanced types of "simulators". An AATD is a "lesser" type and is not included in this paragraph.

The time would have to be with an instructor, as stated in 61.129(i)(1)(i), but in an FFS or FTD, not an AATD.

However, you would also need to look at the LOA for the AATD. If this specifies the AATD can be used towards the Commercial certificate, then it can be used. 61.4(c) allows it, and the LOA would count as such approval.

If the AATD allows it to be used towards the Commercial, then unless it actually states "without an instructor", the requirement of "with an authorized instructor" that is already in 61.129 would still apply.
 
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RussR said:
I do not work with simulator time much, so I could be missing something, but:

If you're referring to 61.129(i), note that that paragraph allows 50 hours of credit but only when using a Full Flight Simulator or a Flight Training Device. FFS and FTD are specific, advanced types of "simulators". An AATD is a "lesser" type and is not included in this paragraph.

The time would have to be with an instructor, as stated in 61.129(i)(1)(i), but in an FFS or FTD, not an AATD.

However, you would also need to look at the LOA for the AATD. If this specifies the AATD can be used towards the Commercial certificate, then it can be used. 61.4(c) allows it, and the LOA would count as such approval.

If the AATD allows it to be used towards the Commercial, then unless it actually states "without an instructor", the requirement of "with an authorized instructor" that is already in 61.129 would still apply.
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AATD is an advanced aviation training device, all you need to provide is the LOA proving the FAA has inspected the simulator and that it meets the standards they have set forth. Almost every big flight school in America have these Simulators. So yes you can use a redbird full flight AATD it is not a "lesser" version. thanks for your input
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’d suggest that you just go fly to get the time unless there’s some specific operation that you want to work on in a simulator.
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30 hours in a sim is just a hell of a lot cheaper than 30 hours in a plane
 
Dylan Sparks said:
I'm having a little bit of confusion on the 61.129 translation for using an authorized AATD. Thanks to anyone who can further help on this topic.
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Redbird LD, SD, FMX, MCX LOA says a maximum of 50 hours may be credited towards commercial under 14 CFR 61.191(i)(1)(i).

14 CFR 61.129 (i)(1)(i) states you may credit "a maximum of 50 hours...provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor"

I don't see any confusion.
 
Dylan Sparks said:
AATD is an advanced aviation training device, all you need to provide is the LOA proving the FAA has inspected the simulator and that it meets the standards they have set forth. Almost every big flight school in America have these Simulators. So yes you can use a redbird full flight AATD it is not a "lesser" version. thanks for your input
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Correct, "all you need to do is provide the LOA" - but, I have seen expired LOAs, and even AATDs without an LOA because the school didn't realize they needed one, or didn't want the FAA to come out and inspect it, or who knows what. And you need to look at the LOA to see what it's approved for.

But if you know that, why are you asking the question?

And an AATD is most definitely a "lesser" capable and less realistic "simulator" than a FFS or FTD. That's the whole reason they're broken out separately in the regs. FFS is the top level, FTDs next, then AATDs, then BATDs.

I have taught some with the Redbird FMX. Personally, I think it's awful. The motion is unrealistic and distracting, and the flight model/control force/response isn't close to accurate.
 
I’d still go in the airplane. Sim time towards a commercial rating is not really valuable IMO. Remember, the commercial license is all visual so you’re not going to get a whole lot of use out of the sim. I guess you could work on emergency procedures but that would be the extent for me.
 
I agree with the crowd to do it in a real airplane. Simming for purpose of time building does zero to build valuable experience.

Case in point... for the past 4 months, I have been working my first commercial pilot gig doing short cross country flights between DFW area and east Texas airports. There have been many learning opportunities, small, medium, and huge that are helping evolve me into a better pilot.

These don't come along to the same frequency or degree or variety in a sim environment.

Sims do have their place, but for what you propose, @Dylan Sparks, real world flying is going to have the better and longer term results.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I agree with the crowd to do it in a real airplane. Simming for purpose of time building does zero to build valuable experience.
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I will add to that, that while sim time may help someone qualify for the Commercial certificate, it's still not flight time. And to anybody wanting to hire you, and their insurance, flight time is what matters. A Commercial Pilot with 250 flight hours is 50 hours closer to getting hired than a Commercial Pilot with 200 flight hours (and 50 sim hours).
 
RussR said:
I will add to that, that while sim time may help someone qualify for the Commercial certificate, it's still not flight time. And to anybody wanting to hire you, and their insurance, flight time is what matters. A Commercial Pilot with 250 flight hours is 50 hours closer to getting hired than a Commercial Pilot with 200 flight hours (and 50 sim hours).
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Aaaaaaand…..

With the real airplane experience versus sitting staring at a computer screen, you get to start making valuable business connections so one day very soon, you get to fly a wide variety of super interesting aircraft like ol’ Russ here.
 
Note I am currently in the same boat (with even less hours!) and no, you can’t use a Redbird by yourself to count toward the 50 hours (that has to be with an authorized instructor).
 
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