Aargh! How do you manage ramp life in the winter?

elvisAteMySandwich

elvisAteMySandwich

Pre-takeoff checklist
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elvisAteMySandwich
The long days and generally good weather during the summer months made it easy for me to fly a couple times per week. My biggest worry about the plane being parked on the ramp was making sure to clean the bird poop off.

Well with winter temps dropping below freezing at night, much shorter daylight hours, family health issues and my job taking more of my time, I've been having gaps of several weeks between short one hour flights. The plane is still parked on the ramp.

This past weekend, I tried to go out for a flight after the temps had come up to the high 30s to low 40s. Didn't preheat (don't really know when I need to) and tried to start. Prop turned some with lackluster results. It did sort of start once, but quickly stopped. Soon after the battery was low enough that I couldn't turn the prop anymore. Could not get it started.

So I've got a bunch of questions: how does one maintain a plane to be usable when parked on the ramp during the winter? How do you keep the battery charged when there are no outlets available to hook up trickle chargers? When do you need to preheat the plane and how do you do it? Where can you store the equipment?
 
Not an owner or certified mechanic here(just a general gearhead), but there are a few options based on my experiences with cold weather ops:

-Is there an FBO you can call to tug your plane over to an outlet and plug it in?

-If not, maybe invest in a small portable generator you can drive/carry out to the plane and run the preheater and battery charger for a couple hours before flight? That way the engine is warmed up and has a fresh full charge to spin up fast enough to start easily. If the generator can handle it, maybe also place a small heater in the cockpit to make it much more comfortable until it gets started.

-If you can drive up to your plane, a small kerosene torpedo heater directed into the cowling does a decent job, and has a small enough power draw that it can be plugged into your vehicle with an inverter. With a big enough inverter and ability to drive up to the plane, you may not even need a generator

-You really should preheat whenever the engine has been sitting in temps below 40F. Be mindful that starting without preheat is really hard on the engine itself as well as the electrical system/starter. It takes a crazy amount of amperage and friction-fighting to get 500lbs of unlubricated metal turning through cold, sticky oil fast enough to start. Sometimes we have no choice, but do it as sparingly as possible.

-Wrap blankets around the cowling when parked. This not only makes preheating more effective but lets the engine cool more slowly and uniformly after shutdown.

-Keeping the battery charged is really important in colder temps. Not only to maintain it and have enough juice to start, but as it gets discharged the battery chemistry will make it more prone to freezing and physically damaging itself or rupturing the casing. The electrolyte solution in a fully charged battery will remain liquid down to something like -70F, but a dead battery contains mostly water and will freeze closer to 32F. Additionally, the longer it sits in a discharged state, the more the plates get sulfated and greatly reduce its capacity and lifespan. I recommend plugging the battery in or flying at least once a week to keep it topped off.

-Before cranking in cold temps, make sure to rotate the prop a few turns by hand(before priming and with the mags off of course. Still keep out of the prop arc). This helps unstick all the thick cold oil congealed in the bearings and surfaces, makes it a lot less taxing on the starter and battery to get it all moving up to speed. It only gets harder and more taxing the slower it cranks.

-as far as storing equipment, maybe make friends with a hangar tenant and humbly ask to borrow a corner of their hangar in colder months? or even just ask if you may plug an extension cord into their outlet for preheating. Alternatively, one of the smaller Honda inverter generators could easily be stored in the trunk of your vehicle or in the plane, they're only about 50lb. Pricey but they're small, quiet, and really come in handy for all sorts of uses.
 
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I don't know what kind of plane you have or where you're located. I'm in the mid-Atlantic and the overnight lows are rarely below 25F, so I haven't had the need to preheat. You shouldn't need a trickle charger as long as your battery and alternator are ok. Be careful of overpriming in the winter.
Maybe I need a vinyl sticker for my plane...
ramplife.png
 
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Alaska bush pilot Don Sheldon (Wager With the Wind) would drain the oil and remove the battery and keep them both inside overnight.

I've also made a simple and inexpensive pre-heater that does not require electric power that I've used for the Alton Bay ice airport and also staying for a few days overnight on an island in Maine. It's a tomato trellis turned upside down with a propane camp stove under a metal plate that connects to a dryer vent hose. If you go to the middle part of this page there are a couple of pictures of the trip. As you might imagine, the fear of not being able to get it started outweighed any fear of accidental fire, which is very, very low in my opinion. (Obviously you remove the flame source before attempting a start.)



C206 pre-heat.jpg
 
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@drummer4468 nailed it. I would amplify: get that battery charged up before it freezes. A discharged battery will freeze and that's pretty much a death sentence for them.

I'm in a hanger so it's easy for me, but i preheat whenever its below 50F. A Tanis system is a good investment of you live in the northern 2/3 of the US. A couple hours will bring the engine and oil up 40 degrees or so. The propane pre-heaters should be faster. I've never used one, but I see the local flight school using them as they don't have power on their ramp either.
 
You don’t say what type of plane but if it’s an option, switch to an AGM style battery. They do not lose their charge due to the cold like a lead acid battery does.
 
dbahn said:
I've also made a simple and inexpensive pre-heater that does not require electric power that I've used for the Alton Bay ice airport and also staying for a few days overnight on an island in Maine.
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Dewalt makes a battery powered torpedo type heater that I've considered for this job.
 
GeorgeC said:
Dewalt makes a battery powered torpedo type heater that I've considered for this job.
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That piqued my curiosity and it looks like a good option. The negative comments on Amazon are a little concerning, however. One person pointed out the cost ends up over $500, not including the propane source or any kind of ductwork to connect to the cowling. The bigger concern are the complaints about it catching fire.
 
At the place I used to go in Alaska, it was common for people to connect a Tanis/Reiff heater to a portable generator. If your battery is forward, heating the engine will heat the battery. If you have the Watts, a ceramic heater on the cabin floor is wonderful.

The thing dbahn shows is a DIY version of a $1000 Northern Companion heater.

If your battery is weak after sitting in the 30’s for a couple of weeks, I wonder if it’s time for a new one, or maybe a charging system adjustment.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
If your battery is weak after sitting in the 30’s for a couple of weeks, I wonder if it’s time for a new one, or maybe a charging system adjustment.
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I don't know where the OP lives, but in his post, he said the temps had "come up" to the high 30s and low 40s, which means it was most likely in the very low twenties or teens at night, and up North, night seems to last about 2/3 of the day or more this time of year.
 
I'm in a hangar, but I don't do any trickle charging or anything like that. Just fly it when I can. It's been known to sit for a couple three months :-(. Big maintenance jobs seem to happen in the winter. But I have an Odyssey battery, not some "aircraft quality" thing.
In the olden days, I used to fly a Cessna 120 off a tiedown - no battery charging there either, but it usually flew more often.

I start preheating around when it gets down into the 30's. For the 120, my brother rigged up a preheater based on a Coleman catalytic heater - something like this, but memories are vague. Now I use an electric space heater under the cowl.
 
Out in the backcountry I use a northern companion. At the hangar I have an oil pan heater. With a blanket the engine will be 85 degrees with the pan heater.

what weight oil do you run? Lighter weight oil or multi-vis might help with cranking.
 
Water is produced as part of the combustion process. When a cylinder fires but the start is not finished the water can bridge the spark plug gap and short out the plug.

Preheating or Shower or Sparks mags alleviate this.
 
My club’s cold starting instructions tell us to prime the engine (about double what we would in summer), then, with the mags OFF, get out and pull the prop through by hand at least two full revolutions. That does two things: it gets the cold oil moving, and also gives the priming fuel more time to vaporize, which can take longer at cold temperatures.

One time I thought to myself, “Why should it matter if I’m the one pulling the prop through or the starter doing it.” That doesn’t work. It needs the extra time it takes you to get out and pull it through.

That’s on 152s and 172s that aren’t fuel injected. Mileage may vary outside those.
 
I had a portable generator and the reiff system , worked great. I also would run a potable space heater in the cockpit. The other choice was 150 ft of extension cord to an outlet.
 
just posting from the perspective of being a slow learner when it comes to flooded lead acid batteries in my boat and campers
I had to replace quite a few batteries before I learned the lesson about self discharge (and deep discharge too)

For batteries that aren't used much it is extremely helpful to do two things

1) disconnect the battery to ensure zero parasitic draws....as in an actual disconnect switch at the battery post. Not sure if that's an option in aircraft or not.
2) use a trickle charger (but that really is most important for batteries that will sit longer, assuming they are put to bed fully charged.... like a month or more because the self discharge rate can be something on the order of 10% per month)
c) put the batteries to be pretty much fully charged...or put a charger on them.​

I also learned that once a battery drops below a certain point (like yours did) that it will never fully recover to full capacity....and if it goes dead completely you might as well replace it. For starting batteries that certain point seems to be generally around 50% from what I have read of "popular opinion". True deep cycle golf cart types can go much lower). I can only guess that aircraft batteries are very similar.

I have no experience with AGM's or lithiums...but I think AGM's are similar but perhaps with different threshold numbers.

not aviation, but a good reference site I think on flooded lead acid batteries
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
 
Brad W said:
I have no experience with AGM's or lithiums...but I think AGM's are similar but perhaps with different threshold numbers.
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Are there any certified lithium systems for aircraft?
 
You should have done a preheat. Regularly starting a cold soaked engine like that is not a good idea. Also, you need to be spot on with your starting techniques. Tell us what plane and engine you are flying. I'm sure there are many here who can give pointers.

Figure out how to do it correctly, then take the time to do it right. That will save you time and money almost immediately.
 
When I was teaching in Ohio, I always got a chuckle out of all the different "magic starting techniques". They all started with "this works for me first try, every time". Prime then count to 10 then start, prime then open and close the throttle a few times then count to something and start, normal starting procedure but holding left full rudder and up elevator, :D, whatever. Everyone had their own super great technique, none of which seemed to work anywhere near as reliably as claimed.

Just think if we had to go through all that with our cars...
 
bluesky74656 said:
My club’s cold starting instructions tell us to prime the engine (about double what we would in summer), then, with the mags OFF, get out and pull the prop through by hand at least two full revolutions. That does two things: it gets the cold oil moving, and also gives the priming fuel more time to vaporize, which can take longer at cold temperatures.

One time I thought to myself, “Why should it matter if I’m the one pulling the prop through or the starter doing it.” That doesn’t work. It needs the extra time it takes you to get out and pull it through.

That’s on 152s and 172s that aren’t fuel injected. Mileage may vary outside those.
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It also tests the integrity of your P-leads. Expect the club to fold after being sued by some guy named Lefty.
 
elvisAteMySandwich said:
How do you keep the battery charged when there are no outlets available to hook up trickle chargers?
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In general, you'll find battery performance and health are directly related to the condition of the aircraft electrical. In my experience, given most small aircraft systems are not at 100% (eg, parasitic drain, charging sys performance, etc), it would be one of the places to update in your case to achieve max battery life and performance. May be start by reviewing the battery OEM instructions on battery maintenance then change things accordingly. AGM batteries are much batter than flooded batteries in very cold temps but a properly maintain flooded battery will hang pretty good until you go sub-zero. As mentioned above using a solar charger will work and have set up several for clients. However, if there are parasitic drains from the electrical system it will eventually undermine your efforts. Another option is to remove the battery and take it home to keep in a charged state and install it when you go fly which is another simple trick.
 
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I'm in the mid-atlantic region, think VA, MD, WV. Flying a VANS RV-9A with Lycoming O-320 and an Enersys Odyssey Extreme battery, which should be an AGM according to their docs. Oil is Philips XC 20W50. I did not build the plane and don't have a mechanical background ... but I am teachable. It's a slow process, but a friend has been mentoring me on how to maintain various things on the plane. I've making progress, but I have a lot to learn.

The FBO pulled the plane into their hangar today and checked it out. After letting it sit in the 70 degree hangar for most of the day, they took it out and were able to start the engine with some playing with the throttle. So their assessment is that the plane needed to be preheated. The day when it didn't start for me, the overnight temps were around 30 degrees and I was trying to start it around 10am when temps were in the high 30s/low 40s. FBO guys believe that wasn't enough time for the oil and other components to get warm enough.

They're leaving it in the hangar overnight and I'll get a chance to fly it tomorrow. Hopefully a good flight will charge up the battery.

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas! It really helps seeing all the different ways people are solving this problem.
 
If the temperature only got down to 30 degrees or so it should have been able to start without any preheat if everything is in good health. Perhaps your battery is weak or the cabling needs attention if you had a hard time getting the engine to turn over in that environment. Please note that this comment has nothing to do with whether you should or should not preheat the engine, just that I would expect it to be able to be started with minimal effort.
 
I'm in a hangar, but the same pretty much applied when I had an AA-1A outside:
  • Use multiweight oil, like Aeroshell 15W50, so you are not stuck with thick oil in cold mornings and too-thin oil in warmer afternoons, especially during thaws or transitional seasons.
  • Install an AGM (e.g. Concorde) battery. AGM batteries have much slower self-discharge rates during inactivity. I never put mine on a trickle charger. Never a problem starting if the battery is still healthy. (As in not more than 5-7 years old.)
  • When you upgrade starters, consider a durable SkyTec model. They have really good cranking rpm compared to the OEM starters, and there is no potentially sticky Bendix gear.
  • You will need to prime more than during the summer to get a good cold start. If 1-2 shots work in summer, you might need 2-3 shots in winter. Experiment until you find the right amount.
  • Always preheat if temps are below 0C. (Lycoming says its OK to start without preheat as low as 20 F, but I never do that.) I have an electric preheater that comes in a little toolbox, complete with ducting, but you might be able to use a propane powered unit like the Red Dragon. There is a model that will run off a 12V battery (Use your car or a separate lead-acid battery, not your plane battery.) Before I purchased my electric heater, I used a battery-powered Red Dragon with a junk 12V battery that would hold enough charge to run the preheater. It takes a remarkably long time to heat up the large mass of an airplane engine. Like 30-60 minutes. I hate preheating, especially when it is really, really cold. You shouldn't leave the pre-heater unattended, so you freeze while the plane heats up, even in a hangar.
The bonus of winter flying is that engine and climb performance is amazing compared to summer! Especially for our underpowered single engine flibs.
 
dbahn said:
Alaska bush pilot Don Sheldon (Wager With the Wind) would drain the oil and remove the battery and keep them both inside overnight.
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I am a southern latitudes pilot, so have zero help to offer in this thread, but the above really piqued my imagination.

I can't fathom walking home with a bucket of oil I intended to re-use and a battery between flights. That seems completely absurd to me. I suppose the Alaskan need drives the absurdity though, and thanks for sharing a slice of "how the other pilots live" for me to think about :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I am a southern latitudes pilot, so have zero help to offer in this thread, but the above really piqued my imagination.

I can't fathom walking home with a bucket of oil I intended to re-use and a battery between flights. That seems completely absurd to me. I suppose the Alaskan need drives the absurdity though, and thanks for sharing a slice of "how the other pilots live" for me to think about :D
Click to expand...

Don Sheldon's story is a really good read. His glacier operations supplied climbers for Mt. McKinley and as I recall he would even have to spend nights on the glacier in temps well below zero, but either way he was never that far from a wood stove to keep the oil warm overnight.
 
Both Continental and Lycoming state that you really should preheat if below 30 F for 2 hours. My limits are higher.

Over on Mooney Space some people made some really neat, one box pre heaters. They used small diesel fuel heaters used for RVs and trucks. Run about an hour or so on 1 quart of fuel and deliver air in the 160 -200 degree range. They do not pump the burner exhaust into the hot air, so you can do a T and pre-heat the cabin or battery at the same time.

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/25182-my-engine-heater/#comment-407546

Cowl plugs and a blanket or insulated cowl cover will help.

There are differing opinions about rotating the prop.
 
schmookeeg said:
I am a southern latitudes pilot, so have zero help to offer in this thread, but the above really piqued my imagination.

I can't fathom walking home with a bucket of oil I intended to re-use and a battery between flights. That seems completely absurd to me. I suppose the Alaskan need drives the absurdity though, and thanks for sharing a slice of "how the other pilots live" for me to think about :D
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In Bethel, Alaska, we kept the engine oil in a big can on a Coleman stove in the hangar. We put electric space heaters inside the engine cowl with long extension cords running into the hangar.

In the morning, we removed the cowl and wing covers, poured the oil back into the engine and started it right up and went on our way...
 
Oil Dilution was a .5 lb option on my 172A. I’ve never seen the system on a light aircraft. On heavy aircraft it was a little more complex and designed into the system.
Also effective.
 
When they forget to plug in the 172M I fly regularly I find that plugging in the Tanis Heater for about 30minutes (OAT 20F) makes it exponentially easier to start, and I will see oil temps of 40-50 degrees within a minute or two of.
starting.

Brian
 
bluesky74656 said:
My club’s cold starting instructions tell us to prime the engine (about double what we would in summer), then, with the mags OFF, get out and pull the prop through by hand at least two full revolutions. That does two things: it gets the cold oil moving, and also gives the priming fuel more time to vaporize, which can take longer at cold temperatures.

One time I thought to myself, “Why should it matter if I’m the one pulling the prop through or the starter doing it.” That doesn’t work. It needs the extra time it takes you to get out and pull it through.

That’s on 152s and 172s that aren’t fuel injected. Mileage may vary outside those.
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I have heard counter-arguments to this technique: You can't possibly get any output from the oil pump by pulling the prop through and all you accomplish is scraping any residual oil off of parts when they need it the most. Seems reasonable to me. Of course it's hard to argue against a technique that may work every time with a particular aircraft...
 
Lots of good info. The only thing I would add is recommending a Reiff or Tanis preheater that heats the cylinders and oil pan. I opted for the Reiff. My engine is very cold blooded but cranks almost instantly after preheating. It sucks but plugging into a portable generator 1 -2 hours before flight works well...
 
Ok, an update. So after leaving it overnight in a heated hangar, we pulled it out into 40 degree weather and it started right up with no problems. FBO thinks my problems were just due to not preheating when the temps had been below freezing overnight.

Thank you to everyone posting about their strategies for preheating because that's exactly what I'm researching now!
 
Not sure if this is viable or not but saw one happy owner on the 182 facebook page that is in a situation like yours.

Basically he is using one of the new small portable camping diesel powered heaters. That is then ducted up into the cowl flap from the bottom. The nice thing about this setup is that it will run off of a lithium battery pack so you can just place the diesel powered heater and battery pack on the ramp and let it run with no need for external AC power. I thought that I've read these small diesel heaters can be a bit ornery (as in don't always run all night) but seemed like a great very portable solution. I would think it would also start to heat the cabin as well. Definitely not something you want to build into the plane but seems like it would only take minutes to setup and a Jackery style large power bank should be enough to run the small fan and electronics for a few hours. Could also be used for camping I suppose.
 
Sinistar said:
Not sure if this is viable or not but saw one happy owner on the 182 facebook page that is in a situation like yours.

Basically he is using one of the new small portable camping diesel powered heaters. That is then ducted up into the cowl flap from the bottom. The nice thing about this setup is that it will run off of a lithium battery pack so you can just place the diesel powered heater and battery pack on the ramp and let it run with no need for external AC power. I thought that I've read these small diesel heaters can be a bit ornery (as in don't always run all night) but seemed like a great very portable solution. I would think it would also start to heat the cabin as well. Definitely not something you want to build into the plane but seems like it would only take minutes to setup and a Jackery style large power bank should be enough to run the small fan and electronics for a few hours. Could also be used for camping I suppose.
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Never thought of that, sounds like a fantastic idea as battery-powered diesel heater would be much more portable than even a small generator. Not sure how the reality of piping that heat into the cabin would work though; I feel like having a Cessna door or window popped open on a cold breezy day would negate much of the heating. But would work better in a piper or beech with those small porthole windows. They do put out plenty of heat to quickly warm a covered/plugged cowling though.

I think their reliability issues stem mostly from soot fouling, wonder if running jet-A would be cleaner and alleviate that. Not that it's of much concern in this application as opposed to overnight use.
 
For heat in cabin i just meant the heat going into the engine compartment might naturally flow / warm the cabin too eventually.

Or for cabin heat, get a small ceramic heater, place it in the cabin and about 20min before startup switch from power diesel heater to cabin heater with same huge power pack. If the nose plugs are installed the warmed up engine won't loose that much heat while you finish off with cabin preheat.

Then while flying plug the huge power bank into your cigarette lighter to recharge it LOL!
 
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