AA required?

S

SoSMRT

Guest
I'm looking at possibly getting a medical and going for a private, I'm currently a Sport Pilot with a DL medical.

I had a DUI and rehab stay about 10 years ago (separate incidents). I never gelled with AA with the religious/spirituality angle, however I did find SMART recovery and it's been an immense help, so much so I'm a facilitator for a meeting (meaning I guide the meeting and demonstrate SMART techniques).

So simple question, is this good enough for the FAA? or will I have to do time in AA (which, to start chasing an instrument rating, I would consider).
 
You need to talk frankly with a good HIMS AME. Multiple substance abuse events are not going to bode well for you. THere's way more to you getting certified than just some AA attendance. You *might* get an alternative program, but it's going to be a definite active commitment as well as providing total abstinence.
 
yes, the FAA will consider such alternatives to AA such as you address and or private counseling, but is is a case by case basis.
 
Thanks everyone for the answers, I'm aware of what's in front of me having read a bunch of threads in this forum, I just hadn't found a definitive answer to the AA question.
 
SoSMRT said:
Thanks everyone for the answers, I'm aware of what's in front of me having read a bunch of threads in this forum, I just hadn't found a definitive answer to the AA question.
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The “definitive” answer is to seek out a Senior HIMS AME near to you who has a track record of guiding airmen in situations similar to yours successfully to certification. And set up a consultative visit with him or her to discuss your case.

During the visit, you likely will be advised what needs to be documented and in what form. If some of that revolves around how Alcoholics Anonymous does it, that would be the time to say you are in an alternative program. Then determine how the way your program does things fits the AA does it and how it will meet FAA requirements.

Make sure before you finish that consultation, you have a completely clear picture of what to obtain before anything is submitted officially to the FAA.

Then once the shopping list has been filled, bring it to the HIMS AME for review to see if it checks all the boxes and written in a way that it passes through the review and approval system rapidly.

But do not apply for a medical certificate or send in anything to the FAA until you and the HIMS AME know beyond any doubt that you will be issued your certificate.
 
There is a requirement for “adequate ongoing recovery activities”.

The want a log of these activities, too. Dates. Times.
I do think, and most of my colleagues believe the recovering alcoholic who does not have an emotional investment, has a less secure recovery.....
 
Rgbeard said:
Curious. What do non-believers do with AA?

simply pretend and fake it through?
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it's suggested that you pick something meaningful to you to be your higher power and that could be anything, a 'door knob' is the standard joke. My personal issue with the whole concept, was that I worked hard and fought for my sobriety and continue to do so. This is my achievement and I'll be damned if I'm gonna give some nebulous higher power credit for it.

There are also atheist AA meetings, of which I attended a two, and both were discussions about how stupid the concept of God was.

Side note I want to thank Dr. Bruce, lbfjrmd, and Dr. Brad for 2the wealth of info they've poured into the Medical Topics forum. I especially appreciate that you seem to answer the same five or six questions with patience over and over ;)

I know what I have to do, have a local Senior AME picked out and will be consulting with him next month.
 
Oh if the mods will let this through a quick plug for SMART recovery.

https://www.smartrecovery.org/

It uses standard CBT techniques for working through recovery. Having been through recovery and seen friends and my brother work their way through it. It does as Dr. Bruce points out take on going devotion, yet the ones that make it, each find their own way through it.
 
Vance Breese said:
AA wants you to find a higher power; it doesn’t need to be a particular God.
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This is a concept I can’t comprehend because I’m a Christian without dependency problems.

If someone does not believe in a higher power how can they ever find a strong foundation for sobriety in a program that requires believing in any god? It seems like telling someone with dependence on a drug that their only path to sobriety is through changing their foundational beliefs about faith is doomed to fail.

Obviously, as a Christian, I know that faith can be the answer.

I don’t think the FAA is the right agency for finding those truths.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
This is a concept I can’t comprehend because I’m a Christian without dependency problems.

If someone does not believe in a higher power how can they ever find a strong foundation for sobriety in a program that requires believing in any god? It seems like telling someone with dependence on a drug that their only path to sobriety is through changing their foundational beliefs about faith is doomed to fail.

Obviously, as a Christian, I know that faith can be the answer.

I don’t think the FAA is the right agency for finding those truths.
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In my opinion being a Christian is no excuse of a lack of understanding.

There are many Christians who abuse alcohol.

Below are the 12 steps of AA.

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
These are the foundation for recovery for many alcoholics.
 
Vance Breese said:
In my opinion being a Christian is no excuse of a lack of understanding.

There are many Christians who abuse alcohol.

Below are the 12 steps of AA.

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
These are the foundation for recovery for many alcoholics.
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That’s not what I was saying at all. My point was I do not have any common frame of reference to an alcoholic or a non believer. Both of those are foreign to me and I don’t think it’s possible to relate. At least not for me. My statement was about me. I was not speaking for all Christians.

Nothing about my post indicated I thought Christian’s could not be alcoholics. That’s asinine.

What I was trying to say is I think it’s a very bad idea for the U.S. Government to use any faith based recovery. Faith is a personal and very private choice. I also strongly suspect that nonbelievers would have a higher rate of success if they were not being coerced into adopting a new paradigm of existence that includes a higher power.

Those foundational principals of recover sound great. If I ever have dependence issues they would most likely be very helpful to me… especially since I am a Christian. If I wasn’t a Christian I would probably think you were full of ****.
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
That’s not what I was saying at all. My point was I do not have any common frame of reference to an alcoholic or a non believer. Both of those are foreign to me and I don’t think it’s possible to relate. At least not for me.

Nothing about my post indicated I thought Christian’s could not be alcoholics. That’s asinine.

What I was trying to say is I think it’s a very bad idea for the U.S. Government to use any faith based recovery. Faith is a personal and very private choice. I also strongly suspect that for individuals that are nonbelievers there would be a higher rate of success if they were not being coerced into adopting a new paradigm of existence that includes a higher power.
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Thank you for you opinion.

I lot of people could not relate to Mathew because he had been a tax collector.

In my opinion the New Testament is about love, understanding and forgiveness.

I feel a common experience is not required for that.
 
Vance Breese said:
I lot of people could not relate to Mathew because he had been a tax collector.

In my opinion the New Testament is about love and understanding.

I feel a common experience is not required for that.
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That’s fine for you to believe that but it’s B.S. for the government to coerce faith on people. It’s contrary to their recovery and it’s inappropriate for the state to require it of anyone.
 
The thing I find irritating in your response is the focus on whether or not I can or should be capable of relating to someone that is an alcoholic. That’s not really the main point of my post.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
That’s fine for you to believe that but it’s B.S. for the government to coerce faith on people. It’s contrary to their recovery and it’s inappropriate for the state to require it of anyone.
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Funny thing is; AA helps a lot of people manage their alcoholism despite your opinion.

The FAA does not require AA.

The FAA doesn’t want drunken pilots.

I think it is nice they give pilots a second chance.

Peace out.
 
Vance Breese said:
Funny thing is; AA helps a lot of people manage their alcoholism despite your opinion.

The FAA does not require AA.

The FAA doesn’t want drunken pilots.

I think it is nice they give pilots a second chance.

Peace out.
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I think it’s awesome you never responded to my post in a meaningful manner.

I’m done as well.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
My point was I do not have any common frame of reference to an alcoholic or a non believer. Both of those are foreign to me and I don’t think it’s possible to relate. At least not for me. My statement was about me.
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One way to think about it is that an important part of recovery may be that one has to realize that the problem is outside of one’s direct control and will require outside assistance to overcome.

Essentially this is adopting an illness model, rather than the more volitional model of “I am guilty and to blame.” Sort of like realizing that if you have a broken leg you may need an orthopedic surgeon to help you.

For many people with a substance abuse disorder, the guilt they have interferes with recovery. So recognizing they need outside help can be a big step toward that recovery.

I think the outside help can come in many forms - a trusted doctor, friend, or mystical belief can all assist depending on the background of the person with the disorder.
 
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