A380 v B787

Well, I'm not sure if the video is biased or not, but it certainly convinced me that the 787 and 737max are the future.

I travel overseas several times a year and the thought of having less connections is enticing. Plus, it should increase demand for pilots in the industry as more, smaller jets are flown with this new model vs. an A380 hauling 650 people.
 
Bonchie said:
Well, I'm not sure if the video is biased or not, but it certainly convinced me that the 787 and 737max are the future.
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Seems to me that it's only reporting what actually happened. The flying public clearly prefers point to point travel versus hub and spoke. The airlines prefer less expensive airports to more expensive airports. Airbus just bet on the wrong horse and that's why Boeing has shipped six times more planes.
 
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Hmm. Data block showes a 737-800. Is that what a MAX is? Also, I can follow the track up to the "X". I can't figure out how they did that as shown.

What are the blue dashed lines?

I am a little suspicious.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Hmm. Data block showes a 737-800. Is that what a MAX is? Also, I can follow the track up to the "X". I can't figure out how they did that as shown.

What are the blue dashed lines?

I am a little suspicious.
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Blue dashed lines are the "as filed" flight plan.

The arcs are the turns the plane actually flew.
 
I had a joke about the 380 but I got my pee-pee spanked the last time I told it here so I guess you'll have to wait till you can buy me a beer and I'll tell it again in person !
 
BTW there is no possible profitable way to operate the 380 without some form of subsidies. That is why you don't see it operated by any North American carriers. It's also why the 747 is on the way out the door as well.
 
Art VanDelay said:
BTW there is no possible profitable way to operate the 380 without some form of subsidies. That is why you don't see it operated by any North American carriers. It's also why the 747 is on the way out the door as well.
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On Saturday I saw a 747 on the eastbound SID from DFW. That departure is used when the wind is from the north. I live about 30 miles east of the airport.

Anyway, it was the first time I'd seen a 747 flying from DFW in ages. I'd like to take a flight on one before they're all gone. I have a bunch of Delta miles, and I think they are still flying them on a few routes.

How would I find out where they're flying without using the slow way, going through the entire schedule?
 
The 787 is all about passenger convenience and passenger comfort. It is the mass-market equivalent of a G550. The 5000 ft equivalent cabin altitude and the higher humidity levels the composite pressure hull allows make a big difference on a long haul flight. I just got back from 3 weeks in the UK. 777 outbound, 787 return, and the difference was noticeable by the end of the 9 hr flights.

The major carrier my brother flies 787s for uses the 777 on routes where there is a significant air freight demand in addition to passengers - Beijing, Sydney, some Heathrow and Frankfurt routes (depends on NA city of origin). Their expanding fleet of 787s is taking over everything else, Hong Kong, Seoul, Shanghai, Brisbane, Rome, New Delhi...

Airbus appears to have been heavily influenced to go the 380 jumbo route by the number of large population cities in greater Asia, and the need to replace its first attempt at a 4-engine aircraft, the A-340, which initially fell short of its payload/range design objectives.

I would bet their economic growth rate projections for those Asian economies, and increasing personal incomes leading to many more of those citizens travelling, played a role in shaping Airbus strategy. As did the up-and-coming global superhub model Dubai was promoting. All that has happened, which is why the 380 has a market for carriers in Asia. The heavily subsidized Persian Gulf carriers bought them for prestige and bragging rights, to add to their already Airbus dominant fleets. The European carriers bought them, well, because they had to politically.

Airbus doesn't really have anything that can compete directly with either the 777 or the 787 at the moment (the A-350's strongest selling point seems to be systems commonality for Airbus fleet operators; I can't see anyone else buying one). Boeing's biggest competitive issue right now is the US$ to Euro exchange rate has been moving in Airbus' favor.
 
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3393RP said:
How would I find out where they're flying without using the slow way, going through the entire schedule?
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My personal favorite is FlightRadar24.com (they also have a great phone app).

Open it (On the browser anyway), go to the right side of the screen and click on the funnel for filtering. They let you use one filter without subscribing.

Set the filter for Airport / DFW / InOut and hit the yellow + and then toggle Enable Filtering all in the same window. Zoom out (a lot) and it will show you all flights in real time going from or coming to DFW. You can click on the aircraft and see all kinds of info about them including destination, ETA, altitude, speed, etc.

You can also filter by Aircraft / B744 (or B748) and see them all across the world and where they are headed.

Another two aircraft worth tracking:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flights_7_and_8
 
3393RP said:
On Saturday I saw a 747 on the eastbound SID from DFW. That departure is used when the wind is from the north. I live about 30 miles east of the airport.

Anyway, it was the first time I'd seen a 747 flying from DFW in ages. I'd like to take a flight on one before they're all gone. I have a bunch of Delta miles, and I think they are still flying them on a few routes.

How would I find out where they're flying without using the slow way, going through the entire schedule?
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I thought Delta had retired all of theirs? They were acquired when Delta bought Northwest if they have any, they are phasing them out. Even JAL is putting them out to pasture. I think Qantas, KLM, Lufthansa, United, and BA may still be using some, most of the others have retired them. Generally long-haul international routes that need high capacity.

KLM is Skyteam so you ought to be able to use Delta miles.

Sit upstairs if you can. It's a nice ride.
 
wsuffa said:
I thought Delta had retired all of theirs? They were acquired when Delta bought Northwest if they have any, they are phasing them out. Even JAL is putting them out to pasture. I think Qantas, KLM, Lufthansa, United, and BA may still be using some, most of the others have retired them. Generally long-haul international routes that need high capacity.

KLM is Skyteam so you ought to be able to use Delta miles.

Sit upstairs if you can. It's a nice ride.
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Can confirm BA is still flying at least some of their 747-400s. Saw a number of them in and out of LHR on Monday. They just did a major refurbishment of the interiors on a number of them last summer, so I expect they intend to keep them in the air a few years yet.
 
Over the summer, I got 4 hours of sim time in the Continental B787 sims in Houston.

I am very impressed at the capabilities of that aircraft.
 
GRG55 said:
The 787 is all about passenger convenience and passenger comfort. It is the mass-market equivalent of a G550.
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Unfortunately most airlines made it by far the most uncomfortable widebody jet to fly in by using 9-across seating. If I'm stuck in economy, I go out of my way to avoid flying in a 787.
 
Art VanDelay said:
BTW there is no possible profitable way to operate the 380 without some form of subsidies. That is why you don't see it operated by any North American carriers. It's also why the 747 is on the way out the door as well.
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BA and LH are doing a good job with theirs, BA with huge profits as well (and no subsidies). Same with SQ. ME3 obviously are an exception.
 
Art VanDelay said:
BTW there is no possible profitable way to operate the 380 without some form of subsidies. That is why you don't see it operated by any North American carriers. It's also why the 747 is on the way out the door as well.
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Lufthansa operates a 747 direct from Germany to GSP in Greer, SC. They bring fully assembled engines and other cargo in for the BMW plant. I toured the radar facility and tower at GSP this past weekend and got to see that bad boy come in. That was awesome.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
How did you pull that off?
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Charity Auction for Angel Flight.

It was super interesting to see the aircraft accomplish a successful zero-zero Cat-3 approach with autoland and brake. That and how "relatively easy" it was to fly once I had the basics of what to do. The HUD was super neato.

I brought my dad along for it too. He was a captain for Braniff through shutdown #1 in 1982. It was the first time to pilot a big jet since then and he did really good on a few hand flown approaches.
 
I have flown halfway around the world in the A380 and the B787. Bizclass, so can't speak to the econ experience. I felt much better after the long ride in the 787. That higher-quality cabin air ain't just marketing bs.

I did like the bar in the KAL A380 though. Nothing beats crossing the International Date Line sitting at a bar drinking some girly vodka mixed drink at 38,000ft.
 
flyersfan31 said:
I have flown halfway around the world in the A380 and the B787. Bizclass, so can't speak to the econ experience. I felt much better after the long ride in the 787. That higher-quality cabin air ain't just marketing bs.

I did like the bar in the KAL A380 though. Nothing beats crossing the International Date Line sitting at a bar drinking some girly vodka mixed drink at 38,000ft.
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Agree, 787 in J (and F for the few airlines that have it) is great and the difference in the air is noticeable. But in economy, avoid like brain cancer.
(Try QR's A380 bar. That's cool too!)
 
787 is wonderful, flown it many times, both on Virgin Atlantic and with Ethiopian. A380 is also great, and has a very quiet cabin. But so did the older A340-600 that Virgin used - I loved the 340. In contrast, flew BA's 747 from London to Cape Town last year and the 747 doesn't hold up to the new ones anymore.
 
stratobee said:
787 is wonderful, flown it many times, both on Virgin Atlantic and with Ethiopian. A380 is also great, and has a very quiet cabin. But so did the older A340-600 that Virgin used - I loved the 340. In contrast, flew BA's 747 from London to Cape Town last year and the 747 doesn't hold up to the new ones anymore.
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I like the 346 config where the bathrooms are downstairs. Not sure if Virgin has it, LH does. It's cool somehow.
 
mtuomi said:
BA and LH are doing a good job with theirs, BA with huge profits as well (and no subsidies). Same with SQ. ME3 obviously are an exception.
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No subsidies ? Really ?
Let's just start with this - how much do they pay for their employees medical insurance ?
I got a bunch more too - if you think BA and Lufthansa aren't subsidized you're dreaming !
 
Art VanDelay said:
No subsidies ? Really ?
Let's just start with this - how much do they pay for their employees medical insurance ?
I got a bunch more too - if you think BA and Lufthansa aren't subsidized you're dreaming !
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Haha, they pay quite a lot actually. In the UK it is called PAYE. You don't seem to know much about the European national insurance/pension systems and how much it costs the employer? (hint: it is more than you think. I employ 5 people in the UK at the moment so I kind of know how much it is). Also, in the UK and Germany, pension and natl. insurance are mandatory.

In your reality, everything, every single airline and business and person, is subsidized somehow if you think national insurance is a subsidy. Doesn't change the fact that BA and LH are not subsidized in any way that normally is considered a subsidy, and are making profit with their A380.
 
It don't matter, I can't afford to buy either one. And the runway at my home field is too short by far . . .
 
mtuomi said:
Haha, they pay quite a lot actually. In the UK it is called PAYE. You don't seem to know much about the European national insurance/pension systems and how much it costs the employer? (hint: it is more than you think. I employ 5 people in the UK at the moment so I kind of know how much it is). Also, in the UK and Germany, pension and natl. insurance are mandatory.

In your reality, everything, every single airline and business and person, is subsidized somehow if you think national insurance is a subsidy. Doesn't change the fact that BA and LH are not subsidized in any way that normally is considered a subsidy, and are making profit with their A380.
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OH - Ok , then it's by some MIRACLE of secret management skill that they are able to run those aircraft and turn a profit ? Is that what you're saying ?

Their "incredible" management teams know something that ALL the combined North American Airlines do not ? Do you really believe that ?
 
Art VanDelay said:
OH - Ok , then it's by some MIRACLE of secret management skill that they are able to run those aircraft and turn a profit ? Is that what you're saying ?

Their "incredible" management teams know something that ALL the combined North American Airlines do not ? Do you really believe that ?
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I reviewed his posts and see neither 'miracle' or 'incredible'......straw man much lately?
 
Clark1961 said:
I reviewed his posts and see neither 'miracle' or 'incredible'......straw man much lately?
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I have reviewed his posts and find it miraculous that he really believes they (BA) are not subsidized. No straw man here.
 
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