A

[Freefalling]

A

 

[JOhnH]

The 210 may make sense in the long run. Many people say you should buy your last plane first rather than going with a "starter" plane and upgrading later.

There are some good brokers in the states that you could commission to perform a search for you. It would be a tough thing to turn "most" of the decision making over to them but in your case it might be the way to go. I happen to know a good broker in the Daytona Beach area if you are interested. Or maybe you can find one closer to you in South Florida where you could make the occasional visit to see what he is up to.

 

[luvflyin]

First post here, so please let me know if this belongs somewhere else. I am a low time student pilot paying a FORTUNE for a beat-to-hell C172 ($200+/hour, plus instructor, no digital anything). The essential maintenance is done on the plane, but it's got several things Inop and I feel like it's in the shop more than it's out. In other words, even though I am available to fly every single day, I have only accumulated 10 hours in 3 weeks because of plane availability issues (Nearly 20 students, one plane...). Unfortunately, where I live, this is the only option for training, and the used plane market is...limited, at best. I have been asking around and the only thing I've found for sale is a beautiful Cessna 210, but I'd be paying a lot more to build those hours.

My mission goals are pretty simple: I want to be able to haul around my family (2 adults, 2 kids), guests who come to visit (We live on a tropical island), and eventually, once I have my commercial, I'd like to start giving aero-tours to help offset the cost of the fuel and maintenance a bit. For these reasons, I think a C182 is the way to go for me. I like the 172 for the most part, I like the high wing for sight seeing purposes, and I like the 182 because it's a bit more comfy inside and has a better payload capacity. I'm not stuck on a 182, but from all of my research, I feel like it's a good starter plane for my specific needs. I know that owning and maintaining a plane ain't cheap, but when you're paying $200+/hour for a plane that's almost never available, buying starts to make a lot of sense.

My problem is that I cannot find ANYTHING for sale here. If I buy something, it's almost definitely going to have to come from the states and be ferried to me here in PR. That also means that it's basically impossible for me to go look at planes pre-purchase, because doing so means taking time off work and training to take a commercial flight somewhere, for every..single..potential..purchase. Additionally, on top of work, flight training, kids school, extra curriculars, etc... my time to filter out the insane sellers is limited, as is my patience.

So I guess I've got a couple of questions after that long rambling text above:

1. Does the 182 sound like a good starter plane for me? My end goal is to go IFR, commercial and possibly start up a little aviation side business here, possibly getting my CFI and CFII as well down the line. The 182 would be great for hauling small groups of people around for sight seeing, not super great as a starter trainer, but I can always pick up cheap 152s for that purpose if I go down it.

2. Does anyone happen to have or know of a nice IFR capable 182 for sale?

3. Is there someone who I can pay a little % of the sale price to, to just have them do the leg work for me and find me a plane? I could probably make the time to filter through the cruft and find something, maybe, but at the end of the day, I'm still very new to aviation and don't know exactly what I'm looking at in a lot of cases. I've flown a few different planes, so I know what I don't like, but it's hard to figure out sometimes if a plane for sale has one of those don't likes in it, because I don't know what year models came with which features..

Alright, that got a bit long, sorry. In summary, I LOVE flying (Life long dream, finally coming true), I want to buy a plane because I want one, not because I think it'll save me a ton of money, I need help finding something good, solid, and safe for my family and passengers. There are a lot of little islands around here to fly to, and I want to be able to give that experience to my guests!

There are brokers who do that. Find a plane for you and do the leg work. Yes they do it for money. Some have more scruples than others. 182’s fit your mission very well. Demand is up, supply is down. Good luck

 

[MBDiagMan]

First of all, are there hangars available? Without a hangar an airplane will rot into the ground quickly.

Secondly, you will have to expand the shopping beyond your local airport. Trade a plane or Barnstormers will be good resources.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bill]

Another Cessna to at least consider for your situation is the 206.

 

[Caramon13]

First of all, are there hangars available? Without a hangar an airplane will rot into the ground quickly.

No, you don't NEED a hangar. I had a Cherokee tied down for a year here in FL and had no problems. Planes don't rot into the ground quickly without a hangar. Especially if you fly them at least a couple times a week and keep them maintained. Most rental planes spend their entire lives outside a hangar and they fly just fine.

@Freefalling beat me to it. The only reason for a hangar is extreme weather conditions, like hurricanes which (depending on your tropical island) may or may not be a problem.

 

[MauleSkinner]

My local airport (NOT where I do my training) is tiny, but has lots of land available for building if zoning allows. I intend to speak with the manager after my purchase to inquire about the possibility of building a hangar there, as I'd then be about 4 minutes away from my baby at all times.

If this hangar is the goal, I’d start talking even before the airplane purchase.

 

[tsts4]

No, you don't NEED a hangar. I had a Cherokee tied down for a year here in FL and had no problems. Planes don't rot into the ground quickly without a hangar. Especially if you fly them at least a couple times a week and keep them maintained. Most rental planes spend their entire lives outside a hangar and they fly just fine.

@Freefalling beat me to it. The only reason for a hangar is extreme weather conditions, like hurricanes which (depending on your tropical island) may or may not be a problem.

There's a lot of reasons for having a hangar other than extreme weather, but agree that a tie-down is not a showstopper. Plenty of airplanes rot in hangars too--neglect is the primary enemy.

 

[Caramon13]

There's a lot of reasons for having a hangar other than extreme weather, but agree that a tie-down is not a showstopper. Plenty of airplanes rot in hangars too--neglect is the primary enemy.

Right, that was an entire other thread, but my response was in the context of this thread. And agree, neglect does way more damage then leaving a plane outside.

 

[Caramon13]

@Freefalling I'm in the same boat as you and I'm on the mainland here in Sarasota, FL. Planes are booked for weeks or more in advance, so I have to plan sometimes a month ahead of time to even get one. We all know how unpredictable weather is, so a lot of times that plane I booked I have to cancel due to weather. Very frustrating.

The inventory here is semi-reasonable for price, so that's not usually a concern, but doing the math I can save close to $10K per year if I buy instead of rent with the right plane.

That said, I am also looking at buying again, but it probably won't be for a few months. I have ZERO interest in renting anymore due to the inventory available and quality of what is available. The people around here fly these rentals hard and leave them in horrible shape when they are done.

I frequently look at trade-a-plane.com, controller.com, aso.com. Barnstormers to me is a rats nest. Horrible website design. I hear people mention it all the time, but compared to other sides, it really needs work. If they managed to spruce up the layout and keep the content they could be great, but as-is it kinda sucks for a buyer.

 

[bgreenhaw]

Ah, yeah I forgot about that one. I have looked at a couple, but haven't investigated the 206 enough to know the difference between it and the 210.

206 has fixed gear and wing struts, 210 has retractable gear and no wing strut (after 1966)

 

[Bill]

206 has fixed gear and wing struts, 210 has retractable gear and no wing strut (after 1966)

Right, but for island hopping, how useful is it to have a retract? A 206 would be a great ship for aero-tours and the rugged gear would stand up better to training, and no gear mx.

 

[Caramon13]

Right, but for island hopping, how useful is it to have a retract? A 206 would be a great ship for aero-tours and the rugged gear would stand up better to training, and no gear mx.

Strangely enough though, 206's are at least 20K more than 210's from what I can find, some WAY more. I guess it depends on where you are looking, but I found a 210 for like 60K on trade-a-plane. Lowest 206 on there was 40K more.

 

[JOhnH]

Right, but for island hopping, how useful is it to have a retract? A 206 would be a great ship for aero-tours and the rugged gear would stand up better to training, and no gear mx.

I'm thinking that if I am going to do much flying over water, I would sort of want a retract. That gear can cause problems when they hit the water before the hull does.

 

[NordicDave]

My buddy the Broker just sold a basic but nice 172D with an engine near TBO, but great pre-buy checkout with strong compression.

He sold it to a new Student for $20k. His plan is to sell it after building time for PPL/IFR. He’ll probably sell for the same price 100 hours later.

A 210 is way too much plane for a student. I rented and near the end of my training I bought my 182P. It extended my training 20 hours but wanted the extra training as this was my own plane and getting experience with high perf category at the time. The extra training went to building x-country and familiarization with new and different airports.

 

[NordicDave]

I'm DEFINITELY open to a 172, but it's gotta be at the right price. A lot of the 172s I see are at 15,000+TT, 2500 SMOH and still asking $50k...

PM me, I know a few people who can help. Another friend of mine sold his 172M with 180hp engine for $60K. It was a peach to fly with 3800 hrs on airframe.

 

[JOhnH]

PM sent.

 

[luvflyin]

Any thoughts on going straight to a 210? Will the money I waste building hours and maintaining it be worth it if something like that is the ultimate end goal anyway?

You seem to understand maintaining it will probably more expensive than a 182. Are there A&P's in PR who can do it? Check on insurance. 210's I think aren't insurers favorite airplane. It's going to cost more. Maybe significantly more. There are folk around here who have 182's and 210's. They'll probable be able to give you some numbers

 

[James331]

First post here, so please let me know if this belongs somewhere else. I am a low time student pilot paying a FORTUNE for a beat-to-hell C172 ($200+/hour, plus instructor, no digital anything). The essential maintenance is done on the plane, but it's got several things Inop and I feel like it's in the shop more than it's out. In other words, even though I am available to fly every single day, I have only accumulated 10 hours in 3 weeks because of plane availability issues (Nearly 20 students, one plane...). Unfortunately, where I live, this is the only option for training, and the used plane market is...limited, at best. I have been asking around and the only thing I've found for sale is a beautiful Cessna 210, but I'd be paying a lot more to build those hours.

My mission goals are pretty simple: I want to be able to haul around my family (2 adults, 2 kids), guests who come to visit (We live on a tropical island), and eventually, once I have my commercial, I'd like to start giving aero-tours to help offset the cost of the fuel and maintenance a bit. For these reasons, I think a C182 is the way to go for me. I like the 172 for the most part, I like the high wing for sight seeing purposes, and I like the 182 because it's a bit more comfy inside and has a better payload capacity. I'm not stuck on a 182, but from all of my research, I feel like it's a good starter plane for my specific needs. I know that owning and maintaining a plane ain't cheap, but when you're paying $200+/hour for a plane that's almost never available, buying starts to make a lot of sense.

My problem is that I cannot find ANYTHING for sale here. If I buy something, it's almost definitely going to have to come from the states and be ferried to me here in PR. That also means that it's basically impossible for me to go look at planes pre-purchase, because doing so means taking time off work and training to take a commercial flight somewhere, for every..single..potential..purchase. Additionally, on top of work, flight training, kids school, extra curriculars, etc... my time to filter out the insane sellers is limited, as is my patience.

So I guess I've got a couple of questions after that long rambling text above:

1. Does the 182 sound like a good starter plane for me? My end goal is to go IFR, commercial and possibly start up a little aviation side business here, possibly getting my CFI and CFII as well down the line. The 182 would be great for hauling small groups of people around for sight seeing, not super great as a starter trainer, but I can always pick up cheap 152s for that purpose if I go down it.

2. Does anyone happen to have or know of a nice IFR capable 182 for sale?

3. Is there someone who I can pay a little % of the sale price to, to just have them do the leg work for me and find me a plane? I could probably make the time to filter through the cruft and find something, maybe, but at the end of the day, I'm still very new to aviation and don't know exactly what I'm looking at in a lot of cases. I've flown a few different planes, so I know what I don't like, but it's hard to figure out sometimes if a plane for sale has one of those don't likes in it, because I don't know what year models came with which features..

Alright, that got a bit long, sorry. In summary, I LOVE flying (Life long dream, finally coming true), I want to buy a plane because I want one, not because I think it'll save me a ton of money, I need help finding something good, solid, and safe for my family and passengers. There are a lot of little islands around here to fly to, and I want to be able to give that experience to my guests!

If you’re just getting a run of the mill 182 might be better to just rent/join a club at a better place.

If you’re going to buy you’ll get much more value getting something less common and less of a trainer.

 

[James331]

Believe me, I have looked around. There are no clubs here, and the only other school is 3 hours away, so that ain't happening either. My original plan was to get a 172 that I could then CFI in later on the side (Would need to be cheap so I didn't mind it getting abused) OR a 182 or up so that I could more easily haul family, friends, sight see-ers, whatever, around.

At this point in my career, I'm primarily concerned with building hours, and doing it as cheaply as reasonably possible while still being semi-comfortable. That's why I'm not looking at 150s for this purchase. So a 172 would suit me (Cheap to maintain, cheap to fly), so would a 182 (Cheap to maintain, cheap to fly), but a larger A/C like the 205/206/210 are nice because I can do a lot more with them later on.

Right now I'm leaning toward the 172/182 just because they're cheaper to get into, cheaper to fly, and I can transition both of them into other uses down the line if I want to - The 172 for CFI work, the 182 for very bare bones sight seeing operations for 1-2 passengers...

PA24, cruisemaster, maule, tripacer, S108, C170, lots of options.

 

[DesertNomad]

I intend to speak with the manager after my purchase to inquire about the possibility of building a hangar there, as I'd then be about 4 minutes away from my baby at all times.

Do that first

 

[JOhnH]

Slow down. You are starting to sound belligerent to people that are trying to help without knowing much about you.

 

[Bill]

Slow down. You are starting to sound belligerent to people that are trying to help without knowing much about you.

I think he's more excited/eager. Remember the enthusiasm back when you started?

 

[GaryV]

You might check with some insurance underwriters. You probably wouldn’t have any issue getting insurance for a 182 but getting insured in a 210 for basic flight training would probably be a problem.

A 182 sounds like a good choice based on your criteria. It will be a good choice for your immediate needs and will continue to work for yo7 as your kids age and you move onto your commercial.

gary

 

[MIFlyer]

Right, but for island hopping, how useful is it to have a retract? A 206 would be a great ship for aero-tours and the rugged gear would stand up better to training, and no gear mx.

Unless you can score a deal on a 205 out a Cherokee six 260


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bonchie]

Given your stated choices, just get a 182 with a decent panel.

There’s very little reason you “need” a 206 or 210 over a 182. The 182 will still fit four normal size people and just about anything you can stuff in it. And it’ll do it on 12GPH with insurance costs that won’t break you.

Sometimes the boring choice is the best. The 182 is not a trainer, it’s a legit cross-country family hauler.

 

[MBDiagMan]

No, you don't NEED a hangar. I had a Cherokee tied down for a year here in FL and had no problems. Planes don't rot into the ground quickly without a hangar. Especially if you fly them at least a couple times a week and keep them maintained. Most rental planes spend their entire lives outside a hangar and they fly just fine.

@Freefalling beat me to it. The only reason for a hangar is extreme weather conditions, like hurricanes which (depending on your tropical island) may or may not be a problem.

Yes you DO need a hangar if at all possible. I have watched planes over the years and one that is not hangared, flown or not, goes down much quicker than one that is hangared. Flying it frequently is a good thing, but if not hangared when not in use, it will go down much quicker. Some of the rot shows (paint, glass, interior) and some doesn’t (avionics, internal corrosion, etc). Hangar your airplane at all cost.

 

[1RTK1]

If you by a high performance plane with retracts and don't have many hours plan on paying a lot for insurance.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Actually insurance on a retract will be high only for the first year and they will probably require 10 or more hours dual before carrying passengers. Put 60 hours or so the first year and it will be drastically cheap the second. My first insurance year in a complex was cheaper than I expected, but someone said that it was because I had enough successful tailwheel hours. Something about specialized time helping going to complex or something. I’ve known sixty hour pilots that go to a complex without an enormous hit the first year.

It’s easy to find out. Just call your insurance person with a few tail numbers and your pilot info sheet and get some quotes.

 

[PatternBreak]

I agree with others that a C182 would be a good traveling machine while still being a low enough cost that it isn't detrimental if you're just flying to build time by yourself.

Now depending on the weight of yourself and your family you might be able to get away with something like a C177RG or C177, which is basically a smaller 210 with 4 seats and ~1030 useful load.

Once you've narrowed it down to a few aircraft I'd sugest going through some destinations you'd likely fly to, and run through various loading scenarios to see exactly how much useful load you need as well as the always fun how-fast-can-I-get-there.

For now try and see what type of aircraft fits your mission, then you can try and buy. It can take a few month's but you'll get the right airplane.

 

[Caramon13]

Yes you DO need a hangar if at all possible. I have watched planes over the years and one that is not hangared, flown or not, goes down much quicker than one that is hangared. Flying it frequently is a good thing, but if not hangared when not in use, it will go down much quicker. Some of the rot shows (paint, glass, interior) and some doesn’t (avionics, internal corrosion, etc). Hangar your airplane at all cost.

You don't NEED a hangar, but if you can afford one and if it's practical, definitely. However, if you can't get one for any particular reason, no big deal. Many people have gotten by on tie downs for years. I did. Rental FBO's do. Factoring in a cost of $400-$1,000 a month for a hangar is entirely optional. Go ahead and budget for it, if it's an option, but if not, it is NOT (nor should it be) a pre-requirement to purchasing an aircraft. I take issue with anyone saying you HAVE to budget for it, because you actually don't. Hangars are a "nice to have", not a "must have".

 

[Geosync]

Given your stated choices, just get a 182 with a decent panel.

There’s very little reason you “need” a 206 or 210 over a 182. The 182 will still fit four normal size people and just about anything you can stuff in it. And it’ll do it on 12GPH with insurance costs that won’t break you.

Sometimes the boring choice is the best. The 182 is not a trainer, it’s a legit cross-country family hauler.

This. Keep it simple or else you'll drive yourself insane. Sold aircraft that if taken care of properly won't let you down. If you want to upgrade down the line then you can sell it.

 

[MBDiagMan]

You don't NEED a hangar, but if you can afford one and if it's practical, definitely. However, if you can't get one for any particular reason, no big deal. Many people have gotten by on tie downs for years. I did. Rental FBO's do. Factoring in a cost of $400-$1,000 a month for a hangar is entirely optional. Go ahead and budget for it, if it's an option, but if not, it is NOT (nor should it be) a pre-requirement to purchasing an aircraft. I take issue with anyone saying you HAVE to budget for it, because you actually don't. Hangars are a "nice to have", not a "must have".

Since the OP doesn't list his location, we don’t have any idea how much a hangar would cost. I am at a VERY nice airport in NE Texas and an enclosed single plane hangar is less than $250. My hangar is 70’ x 65’, big enough for four GA planes insulated with a bathroom and cost $650 per month.

I still, from years of observation, have seen planes really degrade when tied out in the weather. The heat gets them, the rain allows water to collect causing corrosion that you don’t see, but can kill you. Paint fades. Interiors fade and get brittle. Tires out gas and deteriorate. Instruments fade and degrade. Rain gets into fuel tanks. Hail can really beat them into the ground. The chances of it not getting tied down well and flipped by wind enter the picture. On and on.

 

[BrianNC]

Good points. For my use case, a retractable is definitely not a must-have. I think I will add 206s to my list for sure.

You like the 182 and a 206 is basically a stretched 182. 6 seats.

 

[kath]

At this point in my career, I'm primarily concerned with building hours, and doing it as cheaply as reasonably possible while still being semi-comfortable. That's why I'm not looking at 150s for this purchase.

Well, "building hours" is a completely different mission than "hauling the family". If the goal really is to build hours, then you'd want to optimize "dollars per hour", and and the best way to do this is with something that flies slow (and takes hours to get there!) and sips gas (so is cheap per hour). So something like a 150 is actually perfect for that! Slow! Fun! Hours! Yay! .

For hauling the family, you probably want most people *really* want when they talk about this stuff, which is to optimize "dollars per *mile*", which is a completely different optimization where faster will be better but every *hour* will actually be more expensive. Not to mention the needed seats/load. From what you describe, this sounds more like the boat you are in, and this is where the 182 crowd can come in and run the numbers on why 182's are awesome...

Is there a 182 near you that you could rent with a CFI and "test drive" just to see what you think of it?

In any case, with the wonder of the internet, there is no reason to restrict your search to just the local area of PR...
Best of luck!!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

First post here, so please let me know if this belongs somewhere else. I am a low time student pilot paying a FORTUNE for a beat-to-hell C172 ($200+/hour, plus instructor, no digital anything). The essential maintenance is done on the plane, but it's got several things Inop and I feel like it's in the shop more than it's out. In other words, even though I am available to fly every single day, I have only accumulated 10 hours in 3 weeks because of plane availability issues (Nearly 20 students, one plane...). Unfortunately, where I live, this is the only option for training, and the used plane market is...limited, at best. I have been asking around and the only thing I've found for sale is a beautiful Cessna 210, but I'd be paying a lot more to build those hours.

My mission goals are pretty simple: I want to be able to haul around my family (2 adults, 2 kids), guests who come to visit (We live on a tropical island), and eventually, once I have my commercial, I'd like to start giving aero-tours to help offset the cost of the fuel and maintenance a bit. For these reasons, I think a C182 is the way to go for me.

I was thinking "182" before you ever said it.

The 182 is a GREAT first airplane to own. It's easy enough to learn to fly in, it's easy to find a mechanic who's worked on them, it's relatively easy to find a decent one to buy, and it's easy to sell when you're ready to move on to something else. It's fast enough to get you places in a reasonable amount of time, it's slow enough to not get you in trouble as you're gaining experience, and it'll do almost anything you ask it to, which allows you to gain plenty of different experiences.

1. Does the 182 sound like a good starter plane for me? My end goal is to go IFR, commercial and possibly start up a little aviation side business here, possibly getting my CFI and CFII as well down the line. The 182 would be great for hauling small groups of people around for sight seeing, not super great as a starter trainer, but I can always pick up cheap 152s for that purpose if I go down it.

The 182 is pretty much perfect for you at this point. I would say that if you think you will go the CFI route and/or you want to put another plane on leaseback there (it sounds like there would be demand for it), that for those missions a 172 would be great and would get you started and through your training cheaper/faster, but if you're at all unsure on the CFI route and/or don't want to put your baby on leaseback, stick with the 182.

2. Does anyone happen to have or know of a nice IFR capable 182 for sale?

They come and go on the various sites. GlobalPlaneSearch.com is a decent aggregator for a bunch of the for-sale sites, if you want to cover all your bases look there, Trade-a-Plane, and Barnstormers (the last two are not on GlobalPlaneSearch). It's always worth asking around - Often the linemen or the shop will know of a plane that isn't getting flown enough that you could get the owner to sell if you made an offer.

3. Is there someone who I can pay a little % of the sale price to, to just have them do the leg work for me and find me a plane? I could probably make the time to filter through the cruft and find something, maybe, but at the end of the day, I'm still very new to aviation and don't know exactly what I'm looking at in a lot of cases. I've flown a few different planes, so I know what I don't like, but it's hard to figure out sometimes if a plane for sale has one of those don't likes in it, because I don't know what year models came with which features..

Yes, there are brokers and buyers' agents in aviation, and it sounds like you could really use one!

Any thoughts on going straight to a 210? Will the money I waste building hours and maintaining it be worth it if something like that is the ultimate end goal anyway?

I think it'd slow your training down quite a bit, and you'd have a LOT of trouble getting one insured at your level of experience. It's complex and high performance, but what the insurers really don't like to see with limited experience is that it's also six seats. A six-seat retract is going to be tough to insure, a 210 even more so because they're already expensive to insure thanks to some nose gear issues on the older ones.

There are tie downs available. I know that tied down planes are moved to hangars when hurricanes roll through, but I'm not sure of daily availability of them. I honestly intend to fly every day or nearly every day, so whatever I get, it'll be used and not left to sit and rot. My local airport (NOT where I do my training) is tiny, but has lots of land available for building if zoning allows. I intend to speak with the manager after my purchase to inquire about the possibility of building a hangar there, as I'd then be about 4 minutes away from my baby at all times.

Make absolutely sure that you can at least get a permanent tie-down at a nearby airport.

Strangely enough though, 206's are at least 20K more than 210's from what I can find, some WAY more. I guess it depends on where you are looking, but I found a 210 for like 60K on trade-a-plane. Lowest 206 on there was 40K more.

I think a lot of that is because of the cost of insuring and, to a lesser extent, maintaining a 210 compared to a 206.

I'm thinking that if I am going to do much flying over water, I would sort of want a retract. That gear can cause problems when they hit the water before the hull does.

That's pretty much a myth. Intuitively, it seems that it'd make sense that fixed (or lowered retract) landing gear would cause a problem, but the accident record does not back that up.

Not being argumentative here, but why? It's not really relevant. Local airport won't let me build a hangar? Big whoop, I'll use the tie downs at the airport 20 minutes away. I'm getting a plane regardless, where it's parked isn't super relevant at this junction, as far as I'm concerned.

What if it's parked three hours away? What if it's parked on the mainland? That'd be a tough thing to find out after the purchase has already gone through. Make sure you *know* where you're going to park it and have a deal already in place before you buy the airplane.

Also, not having a hangar is costly. Paint and interior will degrade quickly. If there are any leaks, water will get places that water isn't supposed to go. And those are true even if you fly it every day. If you don't fly it at least 1-2 times a week, a whole lot else will start to go bad too. I wouldn't say that not having a hangar is a deal-killer, but the total cost of ownership usually favors being hangared. Tie-downs may be cheaper on a monthly basis, but the extra wear and tear will eat your lunch when you sell the plane.

Fair point. I really should broaden my horizons some. I'll research some more and widen my search criteria.

All the planes that were mentioned are fine... But I don't think they're the right plane for you. You don't want to have to learn how to own on an "oddball" type - The ubiquity of the 182 makes it an easy ownership experience, and easy to sell when you have more experience and more of an idea of what might meet your mission better at that point.

Actually insurance on a retract will be high only for the first year and they will probably require 10 or more hours dual before carrying passengers.

I would say that's true once you've got your ticket, and especially true once you have an instrument rating, but the OP is a student pilot. They're gonna rake him over the coals the first year, and maybe the second too if he doesn't have his instrument done by then.

It's definitely worth getting quotes, though. Best place to go is Avemco, they'll give you a quote right away over the phone because they're a direct insurer, not a broker. They'll tell you exactly what it'll cost and what experience will be required.

Since the OP doesn't list his location, we don’t have any idea how much a hangar would cost.

It's right there in the inital post. PR.

 

[James331]

Id also classify a hangar as a NEED, there is just so much abuse your plane will get on the ramp from weather to UV, 4 legged and 2 legged pests, it just goes on and on, its really not worth it, plus you have the additional shop/storage/owner assist mx benefits of a hangar, IMO its more expensive to NOT have a hangar.

 

[Caramon13]

Id also classify a hangar as a NEED, there is just so much abuse your plane will get on the ramp from weather to UV, 4 legged and 2 legged pests, it just goes on and on, its really not worth it, plus you have the additional shop/storage/owner assist mx benefits of a hangar, IMO its more expensive to NOT have a hangar.

So, if a hangar is a need, and you can't find one, do you just not buy the plane?

 

[MBDiagMan]

There's a lot of reasons for having a hangar other than extreme weather, but agree that a tie-down is not a showstopper. Plenty of airplanes rot in hangars too--neglect is the primary enemy.

Agreed, but a plane will rot faster outside whether neglected or maintained and flown.

I have lots of empathy for those in areas where hangars just are flat not available. If I were in such an area and had no choice other than tie down outside, it would have a HUGE influence on the plane I chose. I would not be buying a plane with beautiful paint and interior because it wont be beautiful for long. I would be putting my money in a plane that is mechanically solid with a long in the tooth interior and paint, and expect to tie up less money in it.

 

[JOhnH]

So, if a hangar is a need, and you can't find one, do you just not buy the plane?

Perhaps it helps decide which plane to buy. Do you want to leave a cosmetically perfect plane out in the elements? Or might you buy one that is a little weather worn instead if you know you won't have a hangar?