A Wife's Questions

Relationships require skills and efforts to maintain, because people change over time. If the OP expected her husband to remain the same exact man she married, she was an enormously naive bride and has become a naive wife.

One relationship skill is finding ways to share or at least coexist with one's partners avocations. Now if that avocation is destructive, like gambling or narcotics, I suspect that a partner is in the right suggesting abatement. Flying may be expensive, but it is not in any way destructive, rather the opposite.

If the expense of an avocation is causing continual financial erosion, then a partner has a clear right to confront the situation. Keep in mind that at that point, it is the financial erosion, and not the avocation which is at issue.

If the avocation itself is causing the friction, there may be irreconcilable issues. The OP has already learned this, several members of this board have gratefully dissolved their relationships because their partners could not reconcile themselves to volant activities.

The relationship skill is in preventing such issues from becoming irreconcilable. Communication is invaluable here, and it would benefit the husband to pen up some about his flying activities. There is a more complex dynamic though, I don't like discussing my flying activities with aviation detractors and I suspect the subject of this thread is similar. Life is too short.

Women may value relationships, but they're just as likely to exhibit poor relationship skills if not more so. Insisting that a spouse not engage in an avocation just because it is for some reason distasteful is a very poor relationship skill indeed.
 
Becky said:
Looking at the spectrum of experience you all have shared opens up different perspectives. I wonder ... perhaps flying to a marriage can be like ... say, your car battery in winter. If it's about to die, cold weather will do the battery in and you have to replace it. If it's strong, it'll weather the stress.

I still don't think it's fair, in a loving relationship, to force something into the marriage that a spouse (reasonably and articulately expressed) doesn't want there, and knows (and expresses that) it would cause resentment over time. Naturally, the question arises: Is it fair for that spouse to PREVENT the other spouse from forcing that thing into the marriage? Flying really does become a third entity ... yes, a mistress, as you have mentioned. Generally, adultery is condemned as an unsavory and damaging practice. Why should flying be excused from that same category?

Thank you again for your very valuable responses. I do realize that each couple must find their own answers, and your responses are helping me to be better prepared to do that. My husband and I did talk more last night about this, and I owe you all big time for the new perspectives and information.
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that's just the issue, whether it's forced acceptance or forced denial, you are going to cause resentment in the relationship. My ex wife HATED flying, I had to fly between the trees with her, any higher and she was scared to death, we only did one trip together and I flew from N Texas to Houston nap of the earth, lower than I did flying pipeline patrols. The entire time we were married though, there was never a word against me flying or having a plane, she accepted perfectly well that I will fly. The fact that she was an Air Force brat and her dad is a pilot and she realized that her fear was irrational probably made that easier. Add to that that I was a pilot with an airplane when I met her, well, what could she really say.

The minute one partner forces their will, the relationship will forever change and not for the better.
 
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N801BH said:
Please send adult beverages to all who chimed in...:yes::D;)
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:D:yes:

I find it interesting, Becky, that you say marriage to a pilot can only survive under the circumstance that (if I read your post correctly) while the husband is gone, the wife has to spend all the money, or the wife has to enjoy flying. I think if I had a job at a regional and was only home about 3 days after being on duty for 8, my girlfriend would still be at my side with a full bank account.

It sounds (just guessing here) that your whole life revolves around your husband and pleasing him. You should take some time for you! Go to the spa while he's out getting $100 hamburgers. It costs the same, anyway. Plus, it's enjoyable! I love the spa! Hell sometimes I'd rather sit in the sauna than fly a plane.
 
Thanks ma'am for looking at our point of view..

As for the payback.....

Please send adult beverages to all who chimed in...:yes::D;)
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Wish I could!

For the record, I have no desire to be a martyr or to control anyone's life. My husband and I enjoy being together, and married because of that and a mutual respect and attraction. Still today my greatest delight is to leave on a trip or adventure with him. We love sharing life with each other ... he enjoys being with me, too, and all this is why the flying (which I am sorry to say, as of this writing, I find too uncomfortable to bear) presented a problem great enough for me to seek your input.

One painful time I was packed and ready to go on a flight with him but had to back out when it came time to strap in for two hours. I didn't cry until I got home ... and was supportive and loving when he got back. I'm not interested in ruining anyone's happiness, but when you're part of a team, well ... how would, say, a football team or relay/baton team do if they all just went their own way?

Anyhoo. I'll mention this site to him. I think he's already impressed with some of my new vocabulary. :)
 
The minute one partner forces their will, the relationship will forever change and not for the better.
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Exactly, and another potential contender for Post of the Year. :wink2:
 
Becky said:
Wish I could!

For the record, I have no desire to be a martyr or to control anyone's life. My husband and I enjoy being together, and married because of that and a mutual respect and attraction. Still today my greatest delight is to leave on a trip or adventure with him. We love sharing life with each other ... he enjoys being with me, too, and all this is why the flying (which I am sorry to say, as of this writing, I find too uncomfortable to bear) presented a problem great enough for me to seek your input.

One painful time I was packed and ready to go on a flight with him but had to back out when it came time to strap in for two hours. I didn't cry until I got home ... and was supportive and loving when he got back. I'm not interested in ruining anyone's happiness, but when you're part of a team, well ... how would, say, a football team or relay/baton team do if they all just went their own way?

Anyhoo. I'll mention this site to him. I think he's already impressed with some of my new vocabulary. :)
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Sounds like the issue is a fear one on your part like my ex-wife, perhaps you should seek counseling in those regards.
 
Ben: :lol:

Henning: Not fear, physical discomfort. Dislike the sensations. Thought "flying" with an instructor would help me but feeling that third dimension was unbearable. I don't like carnival rides, either.
 
Becky said:
I'm not interested in ruining anyone's happiness, but when you're part of a team, well ... how would, say, a football team or relay/baton team do if they all just went their own way?
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When you're part of a team you recognize the importance of giving the other guy his space, if you're any good at all in being part of a team.
 
Becky said:
Ben: :lol:

Henning: Not fear, physical discomfort. Dislike the sensations. Thought "flying" with an instructor would help me but feeling that third dimension was unbearable. I don't like carnival rides, either.
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Motion sickness or some other discomfort?

How are you on larger jets?
 
Becky said:
...I'm not interested in ruining anyone's happiness, but when you're part of a team, well ... how would, say, a football team or relay/baton team do if they all just went their own way?...
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Well, you're not going to play football 24/7, there's the rest of life to contend with as well. It seems to me, and I haven't read every post, that you don't really have a problem with him flying outside of an obsessive worry that something bad is going to happen. I think that's the issue you need to get past.

I've been flying for over 40 years and married to the same woman for 35. She has never been into it much whereas I'm deep into it - owning two airplanes and three hangars. Regardless of how close a relationship you have you are still both individuals and that has to be respected. It's give and take.
 
pbramlett said:
Stop trying to change your husband. He likes flying. Either like it with him or find yourself your own hobby.
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Dear Becky, Read the above. :yes:

In my last post I said; "Don"t nag", but last night you just could not help yourself. There is a reason your husband does not want to talk about it. It seems you are looking for every excuse possible to get him to stop flying. "It's dangerous", "It's expensive", "He's gone a lot", "I hope he grows out of it"

Seriously, Do your husband a favor and call a lawyer and get it over with. You are not going to be satisfied until you get your way, and you make him more miserable than he already is. This is nothing more than a power thing for you. He has been flying for 8 years and now you are all worked up about it because you haven't gotten your way. Stop playing games and let the poor man live the life he wants. You married the wrong guy.
 
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Becky said:
Ben: :lol:

Henning: Not fear, physical discomfort. Dislike the sensations. Thought "flying" with an instructor would help me but feeling that third dimension was unbearable. I don't like carnival rides, either.
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Oh, so by 'uncomfortable' you were referring to physical comfort rather than mental. May I suggest an ear exam? Typically people who have excessive sensitivity to motion have ear issues, might be repairable. More often though, that discomfort is a physical manifestation of the fear stress from the new sensations involved. Typically this clears up between 5 & 20 hrs. I don't know of anybody who was not in some discomfort on their first few flights as the sensations are yet unknowns to us, and unknowns breed fear and discomfort from the stress while familiarity breeds comfort and we relax. My first lesson, we took ff and flew directly over the refineries and their flare stacks, we took turbulence that scared the crap out of me, after a couple of hours, those bounces no longer brought about fear because I knew the plane would be fine.

Really though, I think the best thing is for you to take 5 lessons and re-evaluate your position.

Here's another little reality about flying that will allow you to wait it out and still get your way most likely. Most people quit flying not long after learning because they discover that aviation has little practical value for the price, and once they achieve the goal of learning to be a pilot and flying, that was good enough, especially if there are financial constraints. Some people are just born with a passion for it, and they will find a way to fly with their last dime, if he is one, there's nothing to be done about it, you either accept it or divorce.

BTW, no sense in fearing dying, it's gonna happen.
 
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It sounds more like the issue is that you want to go flying with him, but due to whatever issue you have flying, you can't go. How about working for some balance in it? He needs to recognize that you flying along won't be an option until something changes. However, trying to stop all his flying because of it doesn't make sense either.
 
Becky said:
Wish I could!

For the record, I have no desire to be a martyr or to control anyone's life. My husband and I enjoy being together, and married because of that and a mutual respect and attraction. Still today my greatest delight is to leave on a trip or adventure with him. We love sharing life with each other ... he enjoys being with me, too, and all this is why the flying (which I am sorry to say, as of this writing, I find too uncomfortable to bear) presented a problem great enough for me to seek your input.
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Becky, no disrespect intended, but I was married to a type A for 22 years and am still in business (and friends) with her. We have only heard your side of this, but your husband has spoken with his actions. He has flown for 8 years and continues to fly. I assume your dislike of the hobby did not suddenly manifest. You speak of a break down in communications and your husbands inability to talk with you about this. I suspect that you have indeed been speaking with him about it and you have not heard what you wanted to hear. Yes, you might be able to get him to hang up his wings with a "talk", but that will certainly lead to some resentment on his part. It is quite possible to spend quality time with your husband and still let him have some space for his hobby. You are obviously free to not participate, nobody should force someone to fly in a small plane, if they are uncomfortable with it.
 
Men's hobbies always seem to cost more than women's. I have been into R/C models, beer brewing and now building an airplane that is worth more than our house. We are okay with that because before I ever started flight training in 2008, we became debt free. Also the entire family benefits from our xc travels. After spending hours in traffic on I-75 going to Florida for many years, seeing a fatal car wreck in which we could do nothing but watch an innocent lady die, we decided it was time to pursue my childhood dream. We know the risks and the large expenses with flying. We both drive 10+ yr old vehicles with liability only, cook at home alot, cut firewood to supplement our heat pumps in the winter and have lowered the satellite tv subscription. It is all about sacrificing if you want something bad enough and are not fortunate enough to be in the top 2%. I do hope you and your husband are able to work things out. He may end up having to take up quilting, cactus growing, basket weaving, hamsters, wood carving, rock collecting or internet surfing. If so, many of us on here will feel for him.
 
Becky, you mention your own love affair with flying that stopped when some friends were killed - I'm being completely honest here, but have you thought of seeing a counselor to talk about that? It seems like a long time to hold on to something terrible, especially when it's affecting your marriage. I'm also curious to know how you are on larger airplane.

I kind of understand what it's like to have a husband who is into something dangerous and won't change his mind - I'm married to a career military officer. I hate every single thing about it and worry about him constantly. I wish he'd separate. Funny thing though, when he actually talked about separating once, it freaked me out. He'd be a different person without that single mindedness and risk of death many days. And he'd resent me for pushing him into it. Kind of like your husband and flying. You might be able to convince him to never fly again, but would that really help your marriage? I don't think it would. He'd be a different person, not just because he'd resent you, but because he wouldn't be doing something he loved. For me, changing him so much is not worth the relief I'd feel.
 
Rose2012 said:
Becky, you mention your own love affair with flying that stopped when some friends were killed - I'm being completely honest here, but have you thought of seeing a counselor to talk about that? It seems like a long time to hold on to something terrible, especially when it's affecting your marriage. I'm also curious to know how you are on larger airplane.

I kind of understand what it's like to have a husband who is into something dangerous and won't change his mind - I'm married to a career military officer. I hate every single thing about it and worry about him constantly. I wish he'd separate. Funny thing though, when he actually talked about separating once, it freaked me out. He'd be a different person without that single mindedness and risk of death many days. And he'd resent me for pushing him into it. Kind of like your husband and flying. You might be able to convince him to never fly again, but would that really help your marriage? I don't think it would. He'd be a different person, not just because he'd resent you, but because he wouldn't be doing something he loved. For me, changing him so much is not worth the relief I'd feel.
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Right, because eventually you'll start feeling guilty about it and that will turn into a resentment against him for making you feel guilty. It's just a bad scene all around. Fear is a necessary emotion, but unless it is regulated heavily will destroy your life every time, you have to be alive while never really living.

Living is about risk management, not avoidance.
 
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This is an interesting discussion - could be applied to a lot of things, not just aviation.

I thought of posting about a page ago and instead deleted it because of no new advice to give and also perhaps my comments may be errantly taken out of context. And I don't know you or hubby well enough to say any of it.
 
RV10flyer said:
Men's hobbies always seem to cost more than women's. I have been into R/C models, beer brewing and now building an airplane that is worth more than our house. We are okay with that because before I ever started flight training in 2008, we became debt free. Also the entire family benefits from our xc travels. After spending hours in traffic on I-75 going to Florida for many years, seeing a fatal car wreck in which we could do nothing but watch an innocent lady die, we decided it was time to pursue my childhood dream. We know the risks and the large expenses with flying. We both drive 10+ yr old vehicles with liability only, cook at home alot, cut firewood to supplement our heat pumps in the winter and have lowered the satellite tv subscription. It is all about sacrificing if you want something bad enough and are not fortunate enough to be in the top 2%. I do hope you and your husband are able to work things out. He may end up having to take up quilting, cactus growing, basket weaving, hamsters, wood carving, rock collecting or internet surfing. If so, many of us on here will feel for him.
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I would agree except for the fact that I fly airplanes and my guy does not.

Then again, I'm sure all the hunting and boating and fishing and snowmobiling adds up to way more than my flight time.
 
Becky you need drugs, counseling, or a divorce lawyer.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Becky you need drugs, counseling, or a divorce lawyer.
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This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
 
you guys are way outta line. Her husband has an exorbitantly expensive hobby and she doesn't want him to give it up, she just doesn't want to participate. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
 
Becky said:
This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
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So if he golfed 20 hours (let's say 40) a year, you would have the same issue? You wouldn't want to participate, but would not like the fact that he was doing it without you?
 
Becky said:
This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
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What is the perfect answer to the problem that you would like to hear? What would ease your troubles? Basically what are you looking for your husband to do?
 
pbramlett said:
What is the perfect answer to the problem that you would like to hear? What would ease your troubles? Basically what are you looking for your husband to do?
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Honestly, either:

(a) she does not know the answer to this

(b) she just wants him to talk about it rather than changing the subject

(c) she can't say because she has asked him to check out POA which means he is reading what we are writing now.
 
20 hours a year cuts into your life together? You got issues, deal with them. It ain't that we are a bunch of pilots covering a brother, you are out of line. If he quits flying for skydiving would that be OK?
Becky said:
This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
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kimberlyanne546 said:
Honestly, either:

(a) she does not know the answer to this

(b) she just wants him to talk about it rather than changing the subject

(c) she can't say because she has asked him to check out POA which means he is reading what we are writing now.
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(D)...... All of the above....:yes:
 
ja_user said:
So if he golfed 20 hours (let's say 40) a year, you would have the same issue? You wouldn't want to participate, but would not like the fact that he was doing it without you?
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Hope he does not play golf out here.. it runs 300-400 a round.... Cheaper to fly a plane then swat the little white ball..
 
Becky said:
This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
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Guys /Gals..... lets go easy on this woman.... I ,for one have some respect for her. After all, there is NO way I could speel Hippopotomus:D:rofl::lol:
 
N801BH said:
Hope he does not play golf out here.. it runs 300-400 a round.... Cheaper to fly a plane then swat the little white ball..
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You don't have a cheap executive course???

Remember 40 hours of GOlf, is still probably only 8-10 rounds a year :)
 
N801BH said:
Hope he does not play golf out here.. it runs 300-400 a round.... Cheaper to fly a plane then swat the little white ball..
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ayep. My wife wanted to join a local country club so she and the girls could golf in the summer when school is out. Now that I've paid the 2nd year's dues I think I may be ready for another airplane to even things up a little.
 
Becky,

I apologize for all the Neanderthals here who believe you should be barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen, make your hubby a sandwich, smile and just STFU.

We're not all that way, really.

Here's hoping you guys work through the issues and find happiness.
 
Is it bothering you more that he's spending 20-40hrs a year, and a lot of money, doing something he likes that doesn't include you? Or that he's flying?

--

As far as him not wanting to talk...well, he IS a guy!

--

Good luck to both of you.
 
Matthew said:
As far as him not wanting to talk...well, he IS a guy!
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Judging from the posts in this thread, guys like to talk. A lot. :D

To the OP, what could your husband say besides, "I'll give up flying for you" that would make you happy?

What if the shoe was on the other foot and you had a hobby that he didn't approve of and didn't enjoy?
 
Becky said:
This is the crux of the matter! All through this situation the hippopotamus in the room has been the unspoken, unwritten assumption that the partner who flies gets the free pass, and the partner who would prefer that he didn't is seriously flawed, has control and dependence issues, and should vanish.

It's that assumption that drives me nuts, because in every conversation about flying, I'm automatically wrong at the starting gate, just for feeling the way I do and trying to have a conversation about it.

I'm not trying to change or control him. I'm trying to talk with him about what flying means to our life together, and how it changes it in terms of time spent together. I don't nag.

:mad2:
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Sounds more like you are trying to tell him. If this has been going on for years I suspect he's tired of hearing and saying the same thing. You ask him questions that you know the answer will be something that you can be rightfully worried about and get him to quit, he knows the answer, knows you don't like it and walks away from you because he doesn't want to deal with it. Eventually when he walks away one time, he won't come back. If he's been flying for 8 years through this, he's not gonna quit, and if you force it, he will be either a miserable broken shadow of a man or he'll finally flip that switch of 'enough' and kick you to the curb and buy an airplane with the money he saves.
 
I have failed to make clear that it is 20-30 or so hours/year now, but with definite possibility of buying a plane, either outright or shared ownership, with more hours flying, getting ready to fly, taking cross countries, going on weekends, etc. etc. Taking trips without me. Trips together have alway been one of the most wonderful things we share. The number of those trips will decrease, because a growing number (as he flies more) of them will be without me. Because I don't enjoy flying. Thanks to those of you who realize that discomfort in small planes (not so much in big ones!) is not always cureable. Thanks so much to those of you who've talked about your relationships and how you've made them work, around flying.

Yes, as he flies more he will try to accommodate me. I will try to accommodate him. Car trips will still be taken. But with a plane in the hangar, a nice day, a car trip ... he'll be nice and we'll drive, but the unspoken thing will still be there. We could have flown. If not for me.

No woman wants to be an albatross to a man she adores.

You have helped me understand that 20-30 hours a year can be done safely. I accept and appreciate that. But I know it's not going to stop there. He's just been bludgeoned ... er, ELECTED, president of the local EAA. Takeoffffffffffffff!!!! It's the thin end of the wedge or being gone more and more and more. Yes, I can find plenty to do and have many interests. But I'd rather spend more time with him than increasingly less.

As well, he has syncope, and I've seen him fall to the floor with a thud twice. Once while he was listening to someone describe an accident they were in, and once when getting blood drawn. Syncope can strike when you are stressed, such as suddenly getting bad news, etc. Or maybe, say, when an engine fails aloft? But he passes his medicals every time because guess what? The FAA thinks syncope is okay if you, like my husband, only have two episodes in 10 years. Having seen episodes 1 and 2, and knowing episode 3 is out there, I'd have to train to fly/land the plane myself to be safe. That is the last thing I'd want to do.

I seem to have presented myself here as a small person when in fact I try to be open minded, reasonable and loving. And maybe that will mean sucking up and acting like it's fine with me to say "bye" more and more and more as my husband's flying hobby grows. Ultimately it does come down to "is this marriage working for you?" And if not, what adjustments have to be made.

Honest, I do appreciate the comments ... and the humor. Gotta laugh at some things in life ... maybe this is one of 'em. :D
 
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