A&P school cost
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Cheapest school route is a local community college that offers an A&P certificate program which used to run in the $6000-8000 range. The private route like Spartans will be north of $10-12K. There have been some changes to how schools are set up recently so there may be more options by the end of the year. But who knows. You'll also be surprised how a number of non-aviation companies value an A&P certificate with some putting a premium on people who have one. Good luck.
Jdm
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It certainly adds up that they would. Any examples?
schmookeeg
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In recent times positions involving complex manufacturing equipment that requires multiple disciplines. A&P training is one of the few vocations that covers all the main skill sets. For other examples, a number of years ago there was a dental equipment mfgr that offered a standing job offer to the top 10% of every A&P class from a CC in the PNW. I almost changed careers to directional drilling as they preferred to employ A&Ps as their motto was whether 10,000 feet up or 10,000 feet down the requirements were the same. Fortunately my interest in aviation out-weighed the desire to triple my salary.
Oldmanb777
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My A&P class started with 12 students. Some dropped out and they combined 2 classes. Out of the 24, I think there were 6 or 8 that graduated. (Its been a long time so my memory faded a bit) 5 yrs later only 2 of us were still working in aviation. That was 1974. The money, lack of benefits, too much responsibility, and lack of being able to secure a reliable job were big factors. Maybe things have changed?
Tools
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And then there’s the apprentice route. Work at a 145 repair station for 30 months, get your experience signed off.
instead of costing you, you make something. I employ apprentices at about $16-18 hr plus full benefits.
instead of costing you, you make something. I employ apprentices at about $16-18 hr plus full benefits.
Checkout_my_Six
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When I did it....+30 years ago....it was two years, full time 9am -3 pm Mon thru Fri....at a Community College. Bout $2,000 per semester (what I paid for my kids) x4.
Things started to change when they went from the GADO system to the FSDO system. Now its more a regional thing that drives AP demand and pay. And things must be getting short again as you're seeing new APs with minimal experience showing up at helicopter jobs which normally required 3-5 years experience to get hired.
Is this an aviation company? While there is no industry-wide apprenticeship program for A&Ps like other trades, there is an attempt by some companies to implement an internal program to fill their needs and was curious if you might be one of those companies.
Jdm
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Yep, mine was actually per semester x4 also. Not per year as previously stated. Cheap because of the location. That podunk Jr. college was one of the best things I’ve ever done. 4 yr at ERAU afterwards didn’t help nearly as much, and it cost a ton!
texasclouds
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Everyone is hurting for (experienced) mechanics right now.
Tools
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I run a FAA part 145 repair station. Experience gained at one is a pretty easy sell. I have the apprentices keep logbooks as well.
conveniently I also run a A&P test prep school as well, so that’s a little perk. We have our students do their own knowledge testing, though we may be adding that when we can, seems to be a demand for that.
conveniently I also run a A&P test prep school as well, so that’s a little perk. We have our students do their own knowledge testing, though we may be adding that when we can, seems to be a demand for that.
I think this route is the only thing that will get more people into the field. I also think its the reason for the changes to obtaining a 147 cert. to entice more schools. Since you have a prep school are you going to look at the new 147 rules and upgrade your program? A number of local FSDOs killed the work-for-experience route back in the 90s in certain areas to include the CRS I worked at and obtained my ticket. Not everyone can afford school or lives near a CRS, but give someone a destination to earn money and an AP it would be a definite start back in the right direction. I moved a 1000 miles for the same reason. Who knows, could be a gold mine for you.
Tools
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Gonna look at starting a school too, this will aid folks who are eligible for GI bill, scholarships and tuition assistance.
The college we are talking to was KEENLY interested in the apprenticeship route. I may wind up starting a Maint facility basically just for that reason.
The college we are talking to was KEENLY interested in the apprenticeship route. I may wind up starting a Maint facility basically just for that reason.
Silvaire
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I did the apprenticeship route back in the 1970's. Low pay but my benefits where that every time we needed a part the lead mechanic would send me off on a gofer mission in one of the shops airplanes. There was a 150, a 172, a Grumman AA1 Yankee, a Tiger a Tri-Pacer and a Stinson 108. One time I had to take an engine case all the way down to Santa Maria - took all day.
NordicDave
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Washing your plane and other planes counts too. All owner allowed maintenance can get logged.
NordicDave
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Building on Bell's comments; There are several community college programs around the country. A Pell grant would likely cover the costs. In California we have a local program through Gavilan College this is free to most students. First class program. Surprisingly low enrollment, so lots of student/teacher attention.
Year one is General & Airframe, Year two Powerplant. Students can take the FAA test immediately following class requirements each year.
Fracpilot
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Hopefully the 147 re-write coming out soon will shorten that time.
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That will depend on how you define "shorten the time." The major point to the 147 rewrite is that it took the previous very structured attendance, curriculum, and facility requirements and threw them out the window. This alone could shorten the time to an AP or lengthen it for some as the new rule will open new opportunities to individuals unavailable in the previous rule. For example, distance learning will probably be a major player under the new rule which follows the existing FAA covid deviation 147 memos currently in place. That change could allow a person to start their AP journey at home and then over the course of time complete it on their schedule.
And since the Dept of Education is supposed to be involved in this new direction you should see more a credit system being implemented that allow accredited hours to be exchanged between schools similar to colleges, etc. or allow specific accredited classes to count like a high-school level AP prep class. In my opinion, one thing it will not be is easier as it appears a stronger requirement will be placed on the oral and practical testing side. The new AP standards written for this change are completely different than the old standards and include some of the modern skill disciplines not covered in the old system. However, with everything still in draft status its still a bit wide open. Time will tell. However, given this change will screw up people in 147 schools now who are caught under the old 147 and 65 rules, any change moving forward will need to address those issues first.
Here's some more draft docs:
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/afx/AC_147-3C_Final_Copy.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/amt_acs.pdf
schmookeeg
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I can't find anything about any of the fees (save the $2 for student representation) on that website. I was thinking I could audit a course for some of my weak areas (metalworking/structures specifically, but I'm sure I could find others worth brushing up my A&P with) but I can't see how other than to "contact admissions"
Bacho
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My A&P at the local college was nearly free. I think it was about $1,700 all in after the Pell Grant and a Life scholarship.
Some of our mechanics are coming in with $40k in student debt for the same certificate.
Some of our mechanics are coming in with $40k in student debt for the same certificate.
The A&E, A &P and AMT Programs have been in existence in many varying venues over the years. Private schools, High Schools, Military, Community Colleges,
Universities and even a Penitentiary are some.
I got mine at a Public High School. Tuition free of course.
Part 147 has been revised numerous times while attempting to assure the graduates have the skills needed in that era. Proficiency with wrapped cable splices and wood spar splices were dropped as the need diminished. Unducted Fans were a subject area for a non-existent need. Opinions of just what should be included at what Skill Level will always be a big variable.
Let’s hope Bell’s optimism actually comes about. There will be 2 huge bureaucracies in this revision. I hope the “ Turf Wars” are minimalized.
Universities and even a Penitentiary are some.
I got mine at a Public High School. Tuition free of course.
Part 147 has been revised numerous times while attempting to assure the graduates have the skills needed in that era. Proficiency with wrapped cable splices and wood spar splices were dropped as the need diminished. Unducted Fans were a subject area for a non-existent need. Opinions of just what should be included at what Skill Level will always be a big variable.
Let’s hope Bell’s optimism actually comes about. There will be 2 huge bureaucracies in this revision. I hope the “ Turf Wars” are minimalized.
My A&P at the local college was nearly free. I think it was about $1,700 all in after the Pell Grant and a Life scholarship.
Some of our mechanics are coming in with $40k in student debt for the same certificate.
I wish I could find a school like that, the program I’m looking at is 20,000
were you a first time student? Since I’m returning, with a previous BA, I’m not eligible for PELL
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Bacho
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I looked this afternoon, would cost $20k at the same school now. Thats the price without any grants. It’s gone up a lot!
NordicDave
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Contact the A&P school's office Monday. They can help with funding. Great blend of hands on learning & classroom. If you're a halfway decent student the Dean of the program will get you placed in Summer internships and full time union job at United when 2 years completes.
My observation is that MIL folks know jets, pressurization, etc. The GA crowd is more about recip, mags and fabric etc. Neither group is familiar with the others expertise. When in the process of meeting the requirements of 65.77 what could be their next move?
To fill in the gaps in the knowledge base a non-certified , 1 night/ week class may help. The focus would not be on passing tests but rather providing introductory knowledge in the various subject areas that make up the AMT Curriculum. As in any other field; students would have to do individual study to master the area.
ALL schools run on numbers. To achieve a consistent base to permit an on-going class you could tailor the material to appeal to potential home builders and pilots that just want to learn about various aircraft systems.
Consider a 4 year cycle. General, Electrical ( including Ignition) , Airframe and Powerplant. Since students are entering from different backgrounds there would be no grades. A Completion Certificate would be awarded every year.
Tuition. ? $400ish / year.
To fill in the gaps in the knowledge base a non-certified , 1 night/ week class may help. The focus would not be on passing tests but rather providing introductory knowledge in the various subject areas that make up the AMT Curriculum. As in any other field; students would have to do individual study to master the area.
ALL schools run on numbers. To achieve a consistent base to permit an on-going class you could tailor the material to appeal to potential home builders and pilots that just want to learn about various aircraft systems.
Consider a 4 year cycle. General, Electrical ( including Ignition) , Airframe and Powerplant. Since students are entering from different backgrounds there would be no grades. A Completion Certificate would be awarded every year.
Tuition. ? $400ish / year.
Fracpilot
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I skimmed the draft final ruling someone else posted. It’s my understanding the 1900 hour requirement will go away and it’s going to be task based. I believe the goal was also to complete the course in 1 year vs 2 by getting rid of the hour requirement and going task based.
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The 1900 hours and attendance requirement dropped from Part 147 was based on attending a brick and mortar school. The new rule will allow distance learning. This new rule is also requiring a partial rewrite of Part 65 where there still is an 18 month or 30 month combined experience requirement to qualify to take the tests.
Given everything is still in draft status, how they address the 65 time requirements will probably give a clue into what time requirements will be required for the new 147. Its my understanding one of the reasons the dept of ed is involved is the new 147 will treat the A&P certificate similar to other "online degree" programs which require some sort of inter-state accreditations. So with the 9 to 5, 5 day a week school schedule requirement gone I think you might be able to finish up in an shorter time period. However, you'll still have to cover the same topics just at your own pace which is the flexibility they are trying to work into the new 147. Plus show a tactile proficiency of those topics during the final testing. As I've mentioned, I think how they apply the oral/practical side of the new rule will be the most interesting part.
IMO the big change won't be people trying to get their certificate quicker as much as a larger group signing up to obtain their certificate via distance learning over a longer time period which was not an option with the old 147.
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pfarber
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Ok, how many make it to 30 months and can get the signoff (ie can convince the FSDO they know enough)?