A/C R12 Recovery during AC blower repair

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Tokirbymd

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Tokirbymd
Have a Piper PA34-220T with factory AC. R12 refrigerant. Worked great until the blower motor went out yesterday- now won't move air at all. I have sourced some motor replacements that aren't too ridiculous $$ wise, but in order to remove the motor looks like the entire evaporator housing will need to be removed, which requires discharging the R12. Is there a way to recover the R12 for re-use when I reinstall it? R12 is getting ridiculous to come by and the R134a conversion is $10k.
 
A professional refrigeration guy can pump the system to vacuum, and store the gas, then come back and re install it.

Venting is an expensive waste of the gas.

When he does the reinstall, he will again pump to vacuum, before adding the gas.

Putting new gas in without pumping to vacuum is a bad idea, it causes problems that can become expensive if the weather was humid when you re assembled the tubing.
 
Tokirbymd said:
but in order to remove the motor looks like the entire evaporator housing will need to be removed,
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I'd at least make a concerted effort to remove the evaporator/blower as an assembly or at least reposition it to try and just pull the blower off. Its my initial route to preclude breaking the system. Perhaps get a maintenance manual and see if it is possible. However, if you do break the system you'll also need another receiver/dryer and I would follow the OEM discharge/recharge procedure as there can be subtle differences between some aircraft systems and your standard Ford or Chevy system.
 
kgruber said:
eBay still has plenty
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I have not looked on eBay, and I don’t know if you are serious or joking. However, I would be highly suspect of any person selling refrigerant on eBay. First, it is illegal unless you hold a valid EPA card. Second, you are not allowed to even hook up gauges without the certifications. Third, there are a lot off jack arses that are trying to pass off even propane as R12 or other high dollar refrigerants.

When recovering refrigerant, they will not be able to recover 100%. The machine and hoses will retain some and this will be lost. It falls under “minimus discharge” with the EPA. When recharging, you cannot get all of it back in due to the pressure in the tank versus the operating suction pressure of your system.

Be prepared to have to buy some. Don’t know what the rules are as to converting to an alternate and changing o-rings and compressor oil. You will lose some cooling capacity, but it may still be acceptable.

Just throwing my two cents in, and you get what you’ve paid for….
Bob
 
Bell206 said:
I'd at least make a concerted effort to remove the evaporator/blower as an assembly or at least reposition it to try and just pull the blower off. Its my initial route to preclude breaking the system. Perhaps get a maintenance manual and see if it is possible. However, if you do break the system you'll also need another receiver/dryer and I would follow the OEM discharge/recharge procedure as there can be subtle differences between some aircraft systems and your standard Ford or Chevy system.
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Yeah the whole thing has to come out to replace the motor as it is riveted inside the plastic housing thus requiring system discharge. And yes, had planned on replacing the dryer also as part of the reinstall.
 
It would seem to me that you would need to find a aviation shop that does AC work in order to find somewhere that has a recycle/AC machine still setup for R12?

Then they might have a better idea on whether it needs to be drawn down or if there are any tricks to be used for your particle aircraft? I would not attempt it without a service manual for the first time.

I bought this used from a guy who was retiring and closing his shop 20 years ago and it was already setup for R134. It originally was R12. It would cost a fortune I think to convert it back for one job. You do get spoiled working with a recycler and you don't waste any gas when you purge the hose into the system when you are finished.
MVC-015S-8.jpg
 
Doctor Bob said:
I have not looked on eBay, and I don’t know if you are serious or joking. However, I would be highly suspect of any person selling refrigerant on eBay. First, it is illegal unless you hold a valid EPA card. Second, you are not allowed to even hook up gauges without the certifications. Third, there are a lot off jack arses that are trying to pass off even propane as R12 or other high dollar refrigerants.

When recovering refrigerant, they will not be able to recover 100%. The machine and hoses will retain some and this will be lost. It falls under “minimus discharge” with the EPA. When recharging, you cannot get all of it back in due to the pressure in the tank versus the operating suction pressure of your system.

Be prepared to have to buy some. Don’t know what the rules are as to converting to an alternate and changing o-rings and compressor oil. You will lose some cooling capacity, but it may still be acceptable.

Just throwing my two cents in, and you get what you’ve paid for….
Bob
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1756160678...yI-KxQ6Sj2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 
Morgan3820 said:
So are a lot of other things.
Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent https://a.co/d/6bWrA3c
I vent methane and CO2 all of the time.
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Just become a sovereign citizen. Problem solved.

The O.P. might consider contacting a local HVAC company about refrigerant recovery / recycling.
 
lsaway said:
Maybe so, but don't post it for everyone to see.
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I know you’re not trying to censor me. Or tell me what to say or do. Because that’s not how you are. But that’s how it might look.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I know you’re not trying to censor me. Or tell me what to say or do. Because that’s not how you are. But that’s how it might look.
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Sorry, not meant that way. I just think it is funny when anybody (not meaning you) post about doing something illegal. Sometimes I watch Lonestar Law on TV. It is a realty show following Texas Game Wardons. They often search social media postings that people make about an illegal hunt or kill they just made. When the officers confront the people, they always lie and say they didn't do it, until the officer says they saw their post on social media.
 
lsaway said:
Sorry, not meant that way. I just think it is funny when anybody (not meaning you) post about doing something illegal. Sometimes I watch Lonestar Law on TV. It is a realty show following Texas Game Wardons. They often search social media postings that people make about an illegal hunt or kill they just made. When the officers confront the people, they always lie and say they didn't do it, until the officer says they saw their post on social media.
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I agree. One of the many reasons why I don’t have a Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, or any of those other accounts. And I’m proud to say neither does my young daughter, and that was her own choosing. When she was head of her junior ROTC unit, she saw lotta kids get in trouble because of their social media posts. Pilots of America is my only social media outlet.
 
It’s very easy to get a small user license for refrigerant, but generally easier to get someone to handle it for you if it’s just once.
 
PaulS said:
It’s very easy to get a small user license for refrigerant, but generally easier to get someone to handle it for you if it’s just once.
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How easy? When I attended a continuing education course about 20 years ago to receive certification on automotive and commercial/industrial refrigerants, it was an all day affair. There were also experience prerequisites to qualify for attendance.
 
You can purchase a reclaim canister and save the R12..then put it back into the system.
 
3393RP said:
How easy? When I attended a continuing education course about 20 years ago to receive certification on automotive and commercial/industrial refrigerants, it was an all day affair. There were also experience prerequisites to qualify for attendance.
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Online course and test is what my buddy did. Only good for small things.
 
Morgan3820 said:
... she saw lotta kids get in trouble because of their social media posts. Pilots of America is my only social media outlet.
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Yeah. Freedom of speech doesn't mean immunity from self-incrimination.
 
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