a bit different "what plane should I buy" question

[Half Fast]

I'd bet that once it finally does happen I've still underestimated. I've owned vintage cars, and a house, long enough to have some idea of how these things go.

There’s a reason that we discuss expenses in terms of AMUs, the “Aviation Monetary Unit.”

1 AMU = $1000.

You’ve been warned.

 

[82Wideglide]

There’s a reason that we discuss expenses in terms of AMUs, the “Aviation Monetary Unit.”

1 AMU = $1000.

You’ve been warned.

yeah, I've never owned a boat, an RV, or an airplane, so ... we'll see !

 

[Justin Brady]

yeah, I've never owned a boat, an RV, or an airplane, so ... we'll see !

I own a boat, an RV, and and Airplane
The expenses are manageable if you are financially savvy and mechanically able.
If you're the type to take it to the dealer and say "just fix it" you're in for a world of financial pain (on the boat, the RV or the plane lol)

 

[EdFred]

The insurance on a retract is really only bad the first year. I'm $1300 a year for about the same insured value in my Comanche.

 

[AA5Bman]

With the exception of the Comanche and Bonanza, I feel like none of the models suggested are fast enough for someone whose primary use is a 500nm trip.

 

[TCABM]

Has Textron solved the lack of ruddervator skin problem yet? Until that gets solved, the V-tail doctor killer ain’t worth the risk, imho.

 

[Rgbeard]

With the exception of the Comanche and Bonanza, I feel like none of the models suggested are fast enough for someone whose primary use is a 500nm trip.

My inspiration for saying, in post #10: "you really need to raise the budget."

$70k these days pretty much earns you something very slow, very challenged, or both.

 

[O2 Birddog]

currently shopping for a plane. I've read tons of these types of posts, but barely see answers to the question I want to ask. Before that though - my mission -

primary - fly myself, my wife, and my 16 year old 500+ miles to see family. Secondary - fly the kids around when we get there. Tertiary - burger runs.

factors - home field elevation 6200' (KCOS) - will be flying east and south for now, but west is in the future.

so ... I've been looking for / at 180hp fixed gear 4 seaters - Piper Cherokee/Challenger/Archer, Grumman Tiger, Socata TB10, Beech Musketeer/Sundowner, and the odd Cessna 172/177 with a 180 swap. My budget is about $70k max, so that really puts a cramp on my choices, though tat does appear to be easing somewhat.

so finally - my question - backseat leg room..... I rode in the back of a Cherokee. 45 minutes and my legs were killing me. Which of my choices above is going to afford back seat passengers some modicum of leg comfort ? I know a post '73 Piper will be better than pre- .... what about the others ?

Leg room in most 4 seaters for the back seaters is generally poor for adults. You might have to set your sights a bit higher on something like the Cherokee 6. We took a trip in one couple of years back with four big guys and a fair bit of gear from Texas to they Yukon. It was not an unpleasant ride because the back two seats had been removed for more leg and cargo room.

 

[O2 Birddog]

Has Textron solved the lack of ruddervator skin problem yet? Until that gets solved, the V-tail doctor killer ain’t worth the risk, imho.

Maybe I'm just tired and not reading this right but it's a bit contradictory they way I read it.

A clean inspection for corrosion or record of anti corrosion treatment seems to have satisfied many owners over they ears.

There was as I remember an issue long ago with the mountings on some models but I believe it was solved many years ago.

 

[Justin Brady]

Has Textron solved the lack of ruddervator skin problem yet? Until that gets solved, the V-tail doctor killer ain’t worth the risk, imho.

Yes they have begun supplying new skins direct from Textron. Not cheap but available at least.

 

[bflynn]

Has Textron solved the lack of ruddervator skin problem yet? Until that gets solved, the V-tail doctor killer ain’t worth the risk, imho.

Sounds like a potential business opportunity. Last October, the Bonanza Society offered a 500k prize to a firm that offers a replacement.

Maciel Ruddervator Prizes (bonanza.org)

 

[O2 Birddog]

I'd call it a gamble and a negotiating point. That engine could easily have a few hundred more hours, or it might not.

That's why a good review of the maintenance logs and a good Pre Buy inspection are essential on any of them.

 

[steingar]

The OP needs a fatter wallet. $70K doesn't buy what he's looking for unless he's a mechanic and can restore a dog bought on the cheap. And whatever he manages to scrounge with that money will probably need big infusions down the road. Airplanes are scary expensive things.

 

[82Wideglide]

With the exception of the Comanche and Bonanza, I feel like none of the models suggested are fast enough for someone whose primary use is a 500nm trip.

I suppose "fast enough" is relative. Even a Cherokee 140 or a cessna 172 would be faster than making the same trip on the ground

 

[somorris]

I kind of agree with you. “Fast enough” is pretty subjective.

 

[EdFred]

I suppose "fast enough" is relative. Even a Cherokee 140 or a cessna 172 would be faster than making the same trip on the ground

Never had that 60kt headwind have ya?

 

[82Wideglide]

Never had that 60kt headwind have ya?

hahahaha .... you got me there !

 

[Pinecone]

Never had that 60kt headwind have ya?

I recall a trip to FCM outside ATL from SE PA in a friend's Cherokee 180 (Hersey bar wing). He was under the hood, and tells of how he hears me saying S**T, over and over. He asks why.

I tell him that the trucks on I-91 were passing us.

About a 40 knot headwind, right on the nose.

 

[Pinecone]

One thing to consider, that with a 6200 foot elevation, in higher temps, the density altitude will be putting you WAY down on available power. So you will need to leaving very early, or making an fuel stop.

One really needs to think turbocharging for places like that, but that puts it way outsider your budget.

I LOVE the Tiger, but I would not being thinking of one as a 3 person, some fuel, and some baggage at 6,200 foot elevation.

 

[EdFred]

I recall a trip to FCM outside ATL from SE PA in a friend's Cherokee 180 (Hersey bar wing). He was under the hood, and tells of how he hears me saying S**T, over and over. He asks why.

I tell him that the trucks on I-91 were passing us.

About a 40 knot headwind, right on the nose.

Maine to Michigan one day I never saw more than 80kts GS. That was a long day.

 

[Morgan3820]

Maine to Michigan one day I never saw more than 80kts GS. That was a long day.

You should have turned around. You would have been much faster.

 

[EdFred]

You should have turned around. You would have been much faster.

Not enough fuel to reach land going that way.

 

[chemgeek]

I recall a trip to FCM outside ATL from SE PA in a friend's Cherokee 180 (Hersey bar wing). He was under the hood, and tells of how he hears me saying S**T, over and over. He asks why.

I tell him that the trucks on I-91 were passing us.

About a 40 knot headwind, right on the nose.

BTDT, too, BHB back to central NY in the fall. It was unbearably turbulent down low, and smooth but sloooooow up high. I decided up high with a fuel stop to maintain my sanity, but it's not fun droning along watching traffic pass you on the thruway westbound. Still beats driving. On the other hand, I was making 140+ kt GS eastbound a few days before, so what goes around comes around.

 

[Huckster79]

Stinson 108 with a Continental or lycoming…

 

[82Wideglide]

Stinson 108 with a Continental or lycoming…

absolute dream machine !

 

[TheFB]

The insurance on a retract is really only bad the first year. I'm $1300 a year for about the same insured value in my Comanche.

That’s interesting. I’m not dropping significantly. I’m entering my third year with a retract and VFR only ticket. My premium reduced a tiny bit and I’m paying nearly double that amount annually. I’ve checked around annually with no lower options.

 

[Huckster79]

absolute dream machine !

and often one of the more affordable planes.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

That’s interesting. I’m not dropping significantly. I’m entering my third year with a retract and VFR only ticket. My premium reduced a tiny bit and I’m paying nearly double that amount annually. I’ve checked around annually with no lower options.

Ask your agent what would happen if you were instrument rated.

 

[EdFred]

That’s interesting. I’m not dropping significantly. I’m entering my third year with a retract and VFR only ticket. My premium reduced a tiny bit and I’m paying nearly double that amount annually. I’ve checked around annually with no lower options.

Ask your agent what would happen if you were instrument rated.

Yeah, that. Plus rates across the board went up the last year or so.

 

[82Wideglide]

and often one of the more affordable planes.

I've looked into them, and would absolutely buy a nice one. I've read conflicting reports that they are a great taildragger to learn in, and simultaneously that an 0-470 powered one is '"too much plane for a beginner". I've also read that the 0-470 helps the climb (much needed at this altitude) but doesn't give much TAS increase, so, for a couple commenters above, it's still too slow for cross country.

love this one, but .... Canada https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1748021-Super-Stinson-108-2---beauty!.html

 

[Huckster79]

I've looked into them, and would absolutely buy a nice one. I've read conflicting reports that they are a great taildragger to learn in, and simultaneously that an 0-470 powered one is '"too much plane for a beginner". I've also read that the 0-470 helps the climb (much needed at this altitude) but doesn't give much TAS increase, so, for a couple commenters above, it's still too slow for cross country.

love this one, but .... Canada https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1748021-Super-Stinson-108-2---beauty!.html

Yea if your looking for fast cross country absolutely but they all go cross country I fly a Cessna 140 and have done several 1000-1400 mile trips in her. I like flying low n slow accross our land myself. But I get i if ya wanna be there fast for sure.

 

[Flyhound]

A Maule would fit your mission perfectly. I fly a 180 Hp Maule MX7-180C all over the mountain west and it takes me in and out of everyplace I want to go. If tail draggers aren't your cup of tea, Maule also makes a trike (the MXT-7). Parts and maintenance for Maules is cheaper than either Cessna or Piper, so take that into consideration when thinking about the cost of ownership. Having a Maule could open up other types of flying for you as well. I do a fair amount of airplane camping in the backcountry. Your family might not be into that, but flying to a grass strip along a river or lake can make for a pretty memorable picnic with the family.

 

[82Wideglide]

I'm not opposed to taildraggers at all, and would absolutely consider a Maule in my price range

A Maule would fit your mission perfectly. I fly a 180 Hp Maule MX7-180C all over the mountain west and it takes me in and out of everyplace I want to go. If tail draggers aren't your cup of tea, Maule also makes a trike (the MXT-7). Parts and maintenance for Maules is cheaper than either Cessna or Piper, so take that into consideration when thinking about the cost of ownership. Having a Maule could open up other types of flying for you as well. I do a fair amount of airplane camping in the backcountry. Your family might not be into that, but flying to a grass strip along a river or lake can make for a pretty memorable picnic with the family.