a bit different "what plane should I buy" question

8

82Wideglide

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Messages
30
Location
colorado springs
Display Name
Display name:
Cory
currently shopping for a plane. I've read tons of these types of posts, but barely see answers to the question I want to ask. Before that though - my mission -

primary - fly myself, my wife, and my 16 year old 500+ miles to see family. Secondary - fly the kids around when we get there. Tertiary - burger runs.

factors - home field elevation 6200' (KCOS) - will be flying east and south for now, but west is in the future.

so ... I've been looking for / at 180hp fixed gear 4 seaters - Piper Cherokee/Challenger/Archer, Grumman Tiger, Socata TB10, Beech Musketeer/Sundowner, and the odd Cessna 172/177 with a 180 swap. My budget is about $70k max, so that really puts a cramp on my choices, though tat does appear to be easing somewhat.

so finally - my question - backseat leg room..... I rode in the back of a Cherokee. 45 minutes and my legs were killing me. Which of my choices above is going to afford back seat passengers some modicum of leg comfort ? I know a post '73 Piper will be better than pre- .... what about the others ?
 
You will need the extended post 73 for back seat passengers. My C model back seat is a good place to pack luggage.
 
I’ve had adults in the back of a Tiger and it was fine. At 6200’ elevation, I’d agree that 180hp is required not just desired.
 
Depends on how far back you slide the front seats, but the Musketeer/Sundowner is roomier than the others. You pay for the size with a bit of a hit to airspeed.
 
I should've mentioned that I'm not particularly long legged -- 5' 7" 30" inseam. 210lb
wife is 5'0", and one legged (above the knee amputee) 125lb
16 year old is about 5' 5", 30"ish inseam, 120lb
 
82Wideglide said:
I should've mentioned that I'm not particularly long legged -- 5' 7" 30" inseam. 210lb
wife is 5'0", and one legged (above the knee amputee) 125lb
16 year old is about 5' 5", 30"ish inseam, 120lb
Click to expand...

Tiger would be fine then, as far as leg room goes. Good luck in your quest.
 
Tiger needs a longer runway than others.
 
70k only gets a decent pickup truck these days. IMO, you really need to raise the budget.

With overhauls on IO360s and avionics what they are - push to $100k and you'll open more opportunities.
 
Tiger back seat is roomy. That said, you're not gonna find one for $70K in this market. Also, 180hp gets pretty anemic in the high DA west ESPECIALLY if you are within a few hundred pounds of max gross.
 
Given the amputee passenger and budget, I would go with the most powerful Cessna 172 you can afford. If you stretch the budget and she doesn’t mind riding in the back, a PA-32 would be fine. If not for the amputation, I would have said to stretch the budget and wait for the right Turbo Arrow to come along.

While the amputation might not prevent her from climbing on the wing, the easier you make it for your passengers the more often you’ll be able to fly with them.
 
Why is the B model Cardinal not getting any love here for this mission. 180hp and a constant speed prop plus the nice entry exit doors. Is the useful not enough?

Posted right as @Cardinalguy did.
 
WDD said:
Got to check the fine print. That example has a used up engine for example
Click to expand...


I'd call it a gamble and a negotiating point. That engine could easily have a few hundred more hours, or it might not.
 
Sinistar said:
Why is the B model Cardinal not getting any love here for this mission. 180hp and a constant speed prop plus the nice entry exit doors. Is the useful not enough?

Posted right as @Cardinalguy did.
Click to expand...
Love the B Cardinal. None will be for sale for $70 that you’d want though.
 
I agree with @Cardinalguy and @Sinistar a B model Cardinal seems to fit well. Lots of room in the back seat. Large, wide opening doors, an lower to the ground entry…wide cabin means lots of room inside.

ETA: @WDD is right $70k probably won’t get you a good one these days.
 
Agree with 172/177. The back seat not only has the room and ease of entry, but gives a much better forward view and downward view than a low wing. The Omni vision also makes the back seater less claustrophobic and less likely to get airsick. All my non pilot passengers have preferred a high wing Cessna with Omni vision for those reasons. Wait a while, search the market, the bubble will likely burst.
 
iamtheari said:
Given the amputee passenger and budget, I would go with the most powerful Cessna 172 you can afford. If you stretch the budget and she doesn’t mind riding in the back, a PA-32 would be fine. If not for the amputation, I would have said to stretch the budget and wait for the right Turbo Arrow to come along.

While the amputation might not prevent her from climbing on the wing, the easier you make it for your passengers the more often you’ll be able to fly with them.
Click to expand...

she has no issue getting in and out of a Cherokee. She has yet to try any high wing, though she can get in and out of our Suburban ok
 
500+ mile trips are long in a 172, just saying.
That Comanche above looks decent for the price.
At risk of being ridiculed for suggesting it, Bonanzas fit your bill rather well :)
Higher insurance because of the retractable gear on the bo and the comanche.
 
Justin Brady said:
500+ mile trips are long in a 172, just saying.
That Comanche above looks decent for the price.
At risk of being ridiculed for suggesting it, Bonanzas fit your bill rather well :)
Higher insurance because of the retractable gear on the bo and the comanche.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention Bonanza ! There are some beautiful ones out there for great money, but .... the insurance of a retract
 
The back seat of an AA-5X is reasonably comfortable. Useful load is probably OK for three, just have to watch fuel loading vs. baggage. However, climbing in and out of the cockpit can be a bit clumsy even for the agile. I think a 180 hp C172 might be a tad better in this class for ingress/egress as well as higher altitude ops. Something with 6 seats and a larger engine might offer more safety margin when loaded up with full fuel, 3, and luggage.
 
The hard part here is the $70 budget. What about a club? Partnership? Nothing wrong with just renting.
 
82Wideglide said:
I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention Bonanza ! There are some beautiful ones out there for great money, but .... the insurance of a retract
Click to expand...
Well you did specifically say fixed gear so...lol
If you're not totally opposed to it id suggest at least giving it some thought. Insurance is higher, annual is a bit higher as well but everything else is the same. Fuel cost is likely the same or lower (flying much faster on not that much more fuel, so less hours at a slightly higher GPH)
At the hull values you're talking about insurance may not be as crazy as you think. Email Avemco and get a quote. Tell them you're an AOPA member and a ABS member and taking their courses (ABS).

For fixed gear 180HP I like the sundowner over a 172 personally, roomier and more comfortable, bigger and a bit slower.
The tiger is a very cool plane as well but you won't find one in your budget I don't think.
 
I'm going to second the partnership route. If you don't know anyone, ask around about a non-equity partnership. Those by me have been more fluid on the ingress/outgress of the financial coupling.
 
WDD said:
The hard part here is the $70 budget. What about a club? Partnership? Nothing wrong with just renting.
Click to expand...

you're absolutely right about the budget. it's a severe limiting factor. I'll keep adding to the account, and at some point the "money available" line will intersect with the "plane available" line. I've started shopping, and am ready to buy, but if it doesn't happen for six months or a year or whatever, then ... so be it. I'm not opposed to renting from the flight club for the time being.
 
That sounds really wise. Real cost of a plane is not buying, but maintenance, upkeep, gas, motels, rent cars, etc. Not enjoyable when one is under financed, then the plane sits and is useless.
 
82Wideglide said:
you're absolutely right about the budget. it's a severe limiting factor. I'll keep adding to the account, and at some point the "money available" line will intersect with the "plane available" line. I've started shopping, and am ready to buy, but if it doesn't happen for six months or a year or whatever, then ... so be it. I'm not opposed to renting from the flight club for the time being.
Click to expand...

That's what I'd recommend. Keep a sharp eye on the market, put hourly email alerts on TAP and Barnstormers and just keep saving until the right one shows up.
I was in a very similar boat over the last year or so and kept saving and watching until the one I wanted popped up, sent over a signed purchase agreement that day. Arranged prebuy etc and now I'm flying the wings off my Debonair.
I came in below your budget, IFR Waas gps good paint, mid time engine.
Be patient it's possible just wait for "the one".

If you're in a more populous area a partnership is awesome as well. Half of all the fixed costs saves you a ton of money.
 
Eldorado said:
That sounds really wise. Real cost of a plane is not buying, but maintenance, upkeep, gas, motels, rent cars, etc. Not enjoyable when one is under financed, then the plane sits and is useless.
Click to expand...

since I'm new to this, I'm trying to be ultra conservative. leave money in the bank over purchase price for taxes, pre buy, impending annual, transport, hangar deposit (?) a starting maintenance / repair / engine fund and stuff I'm sure I haven't thought of. Hopefully I've reasonably estimated the cost of actually flying and enjoying the thing as mentioned -- I've lumped them separately as "travel expenses"

I'd bet that once it finally does happen I've still underestimated. I've owned vintage cars, and a house, long enough to have some idea of how these things go.
 
Rear passenger can always sit at an angle or sideways with a pillow
 
82Wideglide said:
….I'd bet that once it finally does happen I've still underestimated.
Click to expand...
Your probably correct unless you know the plane, the mechanic, and the owner and it all passes by word of mouth. A trusted A&P/IA can be your best asset.

82Wideglide said:
…. I've owned vintage cars, and a house, long enough to have some idea of how these things go.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif



Those are bargains compared to the wrong plane.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top