A-6 Intruder

Velocity173

Velocity173

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Velocity173
Ok, not the real thing. Just my new electric ducted fan "drone" that I completed today. Can't wait to get it out to the field. Should be a good performer. Gotta get one Ron. :wink2:
 

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Color me impressed. I couldn't even finish off a plastic model sans engine. Looks nice.
 
Beautiful work. Brings back great memories. Just curious why there is what appears to be a VAQ-135 Black Raven (they flew EA-6B Prowlers in my day, and I believe they are in EF-18G Growlers now) on the tail of an A-6E Intruder.
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Who makes it? I've got a little K&A Intruder I converted to slope.
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Takes a lot of wind on even the best slope and flies like a brick, but dang, it's an Intruder and it looks great in the air. I wish he still made them, it's a beautiful mold and I'd love to do a lighter one. I've got a mold plug for a big one too, maybe I'll finish it someday. :rolleyes:

Nauga,
Intruder flight tester emeritus :lol:
 
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Ron, it's VA-85. I guess they operated out of Oceana.
 
evapilotaz said:
What do you use for a TX? I really like my DX9.

Did you build it or is it a ARF?
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I just have a cheap Fly Sky 6 channel. I've never really had problems with cheap transmitters, only batteries and servos. Within the past few years the Chinese electronics have gotten pretty reliable. Used to be total crap.
 
nauga said:
Who makes it? I've got a little K&A Intruder I converted to slope.
DSC_2068.jpg

Takes a lot of wind on even the best slope and flies like a brick, but dang, it's an Intruder and it looks great in the air. I wish he still made them, it's a beautiful mold and I'd love to do a lighter one. I've got a mold plug for a big one too, maybe I'll finish it someday. :rolleyes:

Nauga,
Intruder flight tester emeritus :lol:
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Freewing makes it but Motion RC is their distributor. It's a bit pricey for an EDF. All up you're looking at around $500. Still relatively cheap when you look at 15-20 grand turbine versions.
 
Looks great. I really enjoy flying my RC mini Corsair. I need to get it back up and going again.
 
nauga said:
Thanks. I'm familiar with that one. It looks better in your pics :D

Nauga,
and his steel-toe reboot
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Yeah I've been waiting for a good A-6 EDF foam model. Finally came out earlier this year. I bought the optional bombs and put some personal touches on the paint. I removed the TRAM because this model didn't have it. I think that cooling duct in the tail is for the TRAM though??? Oh well, I tried to make it as accurate as I could for that period.
 
Velocity173 said:
I think that cooling duct in the tail is for the TRAM though???
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No, it was on all A-6E's, including the pre-TRAM versions like I flew. The E-models had extra ECM and other boxes back in the tail which the A-C models lacked (the D's being only tankers, and the hose/reel system didn't need cooling).
 
Ron Levy said:
No, it was on all A-6E's, including the pre-TRAM versions like I flew. The E-models had extra ECM and other boxes back in the tail which the A-C models lacked (the D's being only tankers, and the hose/reel system didn't need cooling).
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Ok, I have seen a few pics with the cooling duct and no TRAM pod. I haven't seen any pics of this particular version with the duct but I put I on anyway.
 
Velocity173 said:
Ok, I have seen a few pics with the cooling duct and no TRAM pod.
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The DRS turret could be removed and the hole blanked off - but there are also pics of pre-TRAM E's with no aft ECS duct.

Nauga,
bluntly ;)
 
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nauga said:
The DRS turret could be removed and the hole blanked off - but there are also pics of pre-TRAM E's with no aft ECS duct.
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I'd like to see those pictures. All E's, whether pre-TRAM or post-TRAM, original or remanufactured, left the Grumman plant with the duct. It was always the principal recognition feature for telling E's from A's or B's.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Looks great. I really enjoy flying my RC mini Corsair. I need to get it back up and going again.
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Thanks. F-4U or A-7? I used to have an EDF A-7. Wrecked it years ago though. Always liked the SLUF.
 

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Ron Levy said:
I'd like to see those pictures. All E's, whether pre-TRAM or post-TRAM, original or remanufactured, left the Grumman plant with the duct. It was always the principal recognition feature for telling E's from A's or B's.
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Post 13 is one. The airplane modeled was delivered as an E in the early '70's and the TRAM upgrade came in the late '70's. Lots of E TRAMs delivered without the DRS turret (but with the duct), especially early in the change cycle, maybe that's the confusion.

Nauga,
who has the scoop :rolleyes:
 
nauga said:
Post 13 is one. The airplane modeled was delivered as an E in the early '70's and the TRAM upgrade came in the late '70's. Lots of E TRAMs delivered without the DRS turret (but with the duct), especially early in the change cycle, maybe that's the confusion.

Nauga,
who has the scoop :rolleyes:
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I have some VA-65 pics in a book of mine that are A-6Es with no TRAM and no duct as well. Must have been rare though. Not many in that configuration.
 
Did someone mention the A-7? :D

This is another slope model. This one is from scratch from the plug to the molds to the model. Didn't even place in the contest :D

a1792536-240-7b.jpg


Nauga,
and his nose-slice departure
 
Man, that's a nice A-7! Those are gliders? Seems like you'd need a longer wingspan.
 
I'm a plank owner of VAQ 135, we used the raven's motif from day one. they still do.

VAQ 135 transitioned from EKA-3D at Alamedia and stood up flying EA6Bs at Whidbey NAS. 1974
 
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nauga said:
Post 13 is one. The airplane modeled was delivered as an E in the early '70's and the TRAM upgrade came in the late '70's. Lots of E TRAMs delivered without the DRS turret (but with the duct), especially early in the change cycle, maybe that's the confusion.
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No confusion at all. I was asking about your statement that "...there are also pics of pre-TRAM E's with no aft ECS duct." I know that lots of E's were delivered with the scoop but without the turret (like all the E's I was in from 1974 to 1977), but none were delivered without the scoop. So, I'd like to see those pictures of pre-TRAM E's without the scoop.
 
Velocity173 said:
I have some VA-65 pics in a book of mine that are A-6Es with no TRAM and no duct as well. Must have been rare though. Not many in that configuration.
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I'd like to see those pictures, because to my knowledge as a former A-6E B/N in the first West Coast A-6E squadron (VA-65 admittedly being East Coast) there is no such animal.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'd like to see those pictures, because to my knowledge as a former A-6E B/N in the first West Coast A-6E squadron (VA-65 admittedly being East Coast) there is no such animal.
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I pointed you to post 13 where one was posted but I'll post it again. It is not coincidentally the one that McFly modeled.

Also posted is a pic of a China Lake pre-TRAM E with no aft duct - it is not masked by the fin. If you look closely at the fin you can see the TMS "A-6E".

Edit: added a VMA(AW)-332 E

All three of these airplanes were new off the line as straight E's.

Nauga,
and Toby's mussels
 

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Ron Levy said:
I'd like to see those pictures, because to my knowledge as a former A-6E B/N in the first West Coast A-6E squadron (VA-65 admittedly being East Coast) there is no such animal.
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The book is Colors & Markings Of The A-6 Intruder by Bert Kinzey & Ray Leader. Don't want to post pics for copyright reasons but it has pics of VA-65, VA-85, VA-35, & VA-115. They're all late 70s models and described as early A-6Es. Some were old A-6A conversions. I suppose some of the captions could be wrong but it does indeed seem that there were a small number of A-6Es with no TRAM & no duct in the back fuse.
 
nauga said:
I pointed you to post 13 where one was posted but I'll post it again. It is not coincidentally the one that McFly modeled.

Also posted is a pic of a China Lake pre-TRAM E with no aft duct - it is not masked by the fin. If you look closely at the fin you can see the TMS "A-6E".

Edit: added a VMA(AW)-332 E

All three of these airplanes were new off the line as straight E's.

Nauga,
and Toby's mussels
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And I have actually flown 159310, too -- we took it on cruise in 1975 and left it in Japan with the Marines (and brought their tired old clapped out A's back to the USA). Must have been when they went to the CAINS equipment in when they added the scoop. Must be getting old...

:redface:
 
Ron Levy said:
Must have been when they went to the CAINS equipment in when they added the scoop. Must be getting old...
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Weeeellll....maybe not (the getting old part). I came across this one you might recognize. Photo was supposedly taken in '77 (pre-TRAM) but it clearly shows the aft duct and the fairing over the DRS turret pallet. Not quite sure how that worked out but it looks like it goes both ways. This one was an A to E mod, maybe that's the difference?

edit: I did find one old dusty configuration reference that said the aft scoop was added with the CAINS update (post E-intro, pre-TRAM)

So wanna talk about the second scoop on the -F? :D

Nauga,
from when dinosaurs roamed the earth
 

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what's up with the no wing spar and all the wing failures? Seems like that wasn't the best design decision for an aircraft that carried such a heavy load.
 
Velocity173 said:
what's up with the no wing spar and all the wing failures? Seems like that wasn't the best design decision for an aircraft that carried such a heavy load.
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There were a couple of failures (I can only recall details of one) but as I recall most of the problems were detected as fatigue cracking before wing failure. The airplanes were carrying heavier loads with a longer service life than originally planned, fatigue is inevitable. The composite wing program took care of that but at the cost of increased weight to get similar flex characteristics for weapons delivery.

Fun times for Medium Attack. The whole A-6F cancellation to get the A-12, then the A-12 cancellation that led to the F/A-18E/F(*) is a study in unintended consequences.

(*) grossly oversimplified

Nauga,
and his black aluminum
 
A-6, one of my favorite jets growing up. I was convinced I would fly one! :rockon: Alas, fail. :(
 
We shared a ramp with EA-6B guys at Bagram during early OEF. Man those things were loud! I could never go to sleep until after the first recovery right after dawn, as they would go into the break right over our compound. Very cool machine!
 
nauga said:
Weeeellll....maybe not (the getting old part). I came across this one you might recognize. Photo was supposedly taken in '77 (pre-TRAM) but it clearly shows the aft duct and the fairing over the DRS turret pallet.
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That's a CAINS bird, pre-TRAM. As I said, it appears the scoop was added with the CAINS package. The deck on which to hang the turret is there (in the bottom cutaway in the radome), but it's still short a lot of the avionics to support the turret. We got them in VA-52 in January 1976. The main improvement was the CAINS inertial nav system, which aligned a lot faster, drifted a lot less, and was a lot more accurate in both velocity and position. My CEP for Straight Path dropped from about 50 feet with the original E to "bull's-eye" with the CAINS.

Not quite sure how that worked out but it looks like it goes both ways. This one was an A to E mod, maybe that's the difference?
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No difference. Only way you could tell OEM E's from A-to-E's was by BuNo (and the occasional battle damage repair -- no E's flew in VietNam).

edit: I did find one old dusty configuration reference that said the aft scoop was added with the CAINS update (post E-intro, pre-TRAM)
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I believe that is correct.

So wanna talk about the second scoop on the -F? :D
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Only person I know to talk about that is The Ghoul, as he's the only B/N I know who flew them, and that only after he left the Navy and went to work at Grumman.
 
Velocity173 said:
what's up with the no wing spar and all the wing failures? Seems like that wasn't the best design decision for an aircraft that carried such a heavy load.
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I think your information is inaccurate. The A-6 most definitely had wing spars, and the only wing failure I know of in my day was one where the Marines had performed an unauthorized battle damage repair on the spar and concealed their illegal action. The aircraft later ended up in VA-52, and the wing failed during a 4-g pull from a dive bomb run on the Boardman Range in Oregon, killing pilot BJ Keen and B/N "Johnny" Johnson. The mishap investigation uncovered what had happened, and there was later legal and administrative action taken against the Marines involved. I believe there were some wing failures much later near the end of the Intruder's service, but that was long after my time.
 
Ron Levy said:
Only person I know to talk about that is The Ghoul...
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I believe I may have worked with him briefly on another program post-F. There are still one or two F guys around.

Nauga,
will test for food
 
Yeah from what I hear at work is its going back like it was pre 2003 or so. My last trip was 2012, and BAF/KAF looked like LAX. Couldn't believe how it had grown.

Sorry about the thread hijack. Resume the Intruder talk!
 
Ron Levy said:
I think your information is inaccurate. The A-6 most definitely had wing spars, and the only wing failure I know of in my day was one where the Marines had performed an unauthorized battle damage repair on the spar and concealed their illegal action. The aircraft later ended up in VA-52, and the wing failed during a 4-g pull from a dive bomb run on the Boardman Range in Oregon, killing pilot BJ Keen and B/N "Johnny" Johnson. The mishap investigation uncovered what had happened, and there was later legal and administrative action taken against the Marines involved. I believe there were some wing failures much later near the end of the Intruder's service, but that was long after my time.
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In the book Intruder: The Operational History Of Grumman's A-6, on pages 130-131, a pilot describes the wing as "skin-stressed." Said the A model had no main spar and described it as the aircraft's biggest design flaw. He goes on to cite three wing failures that he knows of including one at Boardman Range (VA-145) in 1969, one in Loas (VA-196) in 1970, and one at Whidbey (VA-145) while in the pattern in 1970.
 
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