A-4 vs F-18

Frogs97

Frogs97

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Frogs97
I had a discussion with my teenage sons the other day about the Blue Angels flying the A-4 vs the F-18. My contention was that, even though they couldn't do some of the going vertical stuff the Hornets do, I thought the shows looked better when they were flying the Skyhawks. They just seemed to be more agile and quicker in the rolls. He's only ever known them in the Hornets, so he stuck by them all the way. This just a matter of "old man" syndrome, because it's what I grew up watching?

A-4:
F-18:
 
First air show I ever went to as a kid the Blues were flying McDonnell Douglas F-4s. Anything is more agile than those.

But nothing they've flown since matches the unforgettably thunderous presentation those Phantoms gave.
 
Used to live near NAF El Centro when I was a kid. Watched the Blues flying A-4s many times. Could see them practice in the AM waiting to get on the bus. As much as I like the A-4, I like the power and noise of F-18 demo more.

Even today's Blue Angels do a better demo now than when they first started with F-18s. A lot of these "purists" don't want to hear music during the demo but I think it makes for a much more entertaining experience.
 
They were suppose to start transitioning to the Super Hornet this year but it's been put off until 2019.
 
I think with the smaller wingspan, the Scooters look closer (even though they aren't) - same with them looking fast - little bitty jet looks fast, C-5 looks slow (if they are going the same speed).
 
First time I ever saw the Thunderbirds, they were flying F100s, second time F4s, then F16s, nothing like the nose of the F4!

Grew up in Fort Worth, and a neighbor was the lead test pilot for General Dynamics, and did all of the development work on the F16...

D.
 
Flying Fever said:
First time I ever saw the Thunderbirds, they were flying F100s, second time F4s, then F16s, nothing like the nose of the F4!

Grew up in Fort Worth, and a neighbor was the lead test pilot for General Dynamics, and did all of the development work on the F16...

D.
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I've seen 'em all except for the short period they used the Thud, F105, and the F84. But dad was career USAF, and I did 20, so almost my whole life I was around the Air Force.
 
The one time I remember seeing the Thunderbirds they were flying F4s. Fairchild AFB in the spring of 1972. Lots of noise with those birds. Proof that with enough thrust a brick will fly.
 
Frogs97 said:
I had a discussion with my teenage sons the other day about the Blue Angels flying the A-4 vs the F-18. My contention was that, even though they couldn't do some of the going vertical stuff the Hornets do, I thought the shows looked better when they were flying the Skyhawks. They just seemed to be more agile and quicker in the rolls. He's only ever known them in the Hornets, so he stuck by them all the way. This just a matter of "old man" syndrome, because it's what I grew up watching?

A-4:
F-18:
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I would agree. I used to see the Blues every year as a kid and remember when they switched to the Hornets that it didn’t seem as good of a show. A-4s were much more sprightly. And the routine had a quicker pace with less dead space.

That is what I remember vividly at the time of the switch.

Seeing the Hornets today are even more boring as the routine seems to have been dulled in the interest of safety.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
One of my best friends in the world is #7 this season. Please make his life miserable with questions about how much better the F-4/A-4 were :)
 
A number of the most entertaining jet demonstration teams I've ever seen use light, comparatively slow trainers. The Frecce Tricolori performances pre-Ramstein were spectacular. And I really enjoyed watching the Breitling team last year.
 
The house I grew up in was not far from NAS Oceana. Used to watch the BA's from the Beach. F-4's were the best. Especially the sneak pass.

A-4's were my second favorite.

Then there was the one year where they flew Tomcats. That would have to be my third favorite.
 
GRG55 said:
A number of the most entertaining jet demonstration teams I've ever seen use light, comparatively slow trainers. The Frecce Tricolori performances pre-Ramstein were spectacular. And I really enjoyed watching the Breitling team last year.
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I really like the Snowbirds for that reason.
 
donjohnston said:
The house I grew up in was not far from NAS Oceana. Used to watch the BA's from the Beach. F-4's were the best. Especially the sneak pass.

A-4's were my second favorite.

Then there was the one year where they flew Tomcats. That would have to be my third favorite.
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You mean when they flew F-14's in Microsoft FSX?
 
Not as good as the Army Silver Eagles team! :)

 
Ghery said:
The one time I remember seeing the Thunderbirds they were flying F4s. Fairchild AFB in the spring of 1972. Lots of noise with those birds. Proof that with enough thrust a brick will fly.
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This is the Gospel truth.
I think more show team members of both services died in the F-4 than any other type.
 
Shepherd said:
This is the Gospel truth.
I think more show team members of both services died in the F-4 than any other type.
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The blues had 5 accidents in 5 years with the F4 and one of those years was a
short one. The cancelled the season after the last accident. 2 were fatal.
 
A A-4 has a roll rate of 720 degrees per second. That was always impressive to see. Not so much anymore. Here's a little known fact: the T-birds with their side stick wear G-suits but the Blues can't wear a G-suit because as it inflates it will move the hand holding the stick and resting on the leg. They can't take that chance.
 
cgrab said:
They can't take that chance.
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They’re taking a bigger one by not wearing them. And it seems that it has already cost them more than one pilot. Thats my opinion anyway.
 
NordicDave said:
Weren't the Thunderbirds flying T-38's in the last 70's/early 80's?
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Says Wikipedia,

"Due to the 1973 oil crisis, the team only flew six air shows and was grounded for some time. However, in 1974 they switched to the more economical T-38 Talon. Five T-38s used the same amount of fuel needed for one F-4 Phantom."
​
They used the T-38 until the tragic four-ship crash in 1982.
​
USAF_Thunderbirds_-_T-38s_1980.jpg
 
I overhauled the engine in the A-4's the Blue Angles flew in the early 80's, it had 4 fuel nozzles per burner can vs 1 fuel nozzle per can the fleet A-4's flew. Watched them doing their practice maneuvers as I ate lunch sitting by the hanger doors in Pensacola. All that for $350/mo...:)

I must say I did like the A-4 show then again I like any airshow..
 
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Pilawt said:
Preach it, Brother!

(Pt. Mugu, 1970)

View attachment 58583

View attachment 58584
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I love how the F-4s look.

Had a chance to sit down and share a lunch with Hoot Gibson. He shared some great stories, but he talked about how much of a pig the F-4 was to move around. I was surprised to hear that, at the time knowing both the Blues and T-birds used them as aerial demonstrators.
 
Frogs97 said:
(videos)
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Hard to compare the airplanes themselves just from that because the editing on the original is vastly superior. Despite the better resolution, the second one could have put me to sleep.
 
Cooter said:
They’re taking a bigger one by not wearing them. And it seems that it has already cost them more than one pilot. Thats my opinion anyway.
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The stick in the Hornet takes 40 lbs to move and the pilots rest their arms on their thighs to help move the stick and keep it steady. If they had g-suits on their hands would jump when the legs inflated and result in an unplanned movement, likely into another plane.
 
Doug F said:
The stick in the Hornet takes 40 lbs to move and the pilots rest their arms on their thighs to help move the stick and keep it steady. If they had g-suits on their hands would jump when the legs inflated and result in an unplanned movement, likely into another plane.
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I’m not buying that at all. It doesn’t take 40lbs of pressure to move the stick, and G-suits don’t make anything jump. The problem could be easily solved by blocking the right thigh bladder.
 
Cooter said:
I’m not buying that at all. It doesn’t take 40lbs of pressure to move the stick, and G-suits don’t make anything jump. The problem could be easily solved by blocking the right thigh bladder.
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I'd guess that he's referring to the force added by the feel springs they install to take the place of running nose-down trim like they did in the A-4's. 40 lb seems high but it may very well be. As for blocking the bladder, it would still wrinkle their tailored flight suits :cool:

Nauga,
the fashion police
 
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